Day 61 still not out of the egg? When to worry

I have a clutch of 6 and they haven't come out yet. I cut the eggs back on day 54. They are all alive but none have come out of the egg at all. I can get picks up later tonight but should I be worried? They also are doing twitching movements not sure what that's all about. This is my first clutch ever. I incubated at 90F but it is a reptibator so I believe it may have been a few degrees cooler because they were in a 6qt tub.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...ae6d8710d6.jpg


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Since you don't know your exact incubation temp then you probably cut way to early. I incubate at 86.5*F and cut only after the first one pips, usually around day 66.

So long there is no smell and they are alive all you can do is wait.

Not knowing at what temp you really incubated and cutting before the first one actually slit on it's own is not something I would recommend.

I have had years when I incubated at 88.5 and everything was out by day 57 and this year same temps and they came out no sooner than day 60/61

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So long there is no smell and they are alive all you can do is wait.

Not knowing at what temp you really incubated and cutting before the first one actually slit on it's own is not something I would recommend.

I have had years when I incubated at 88.5 and everything was out by day 57 and this year same temps and they came out no sooner than day 60/61

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I have to agree with you I just got a bit too excited. But from now on I'm going to wait until the first pips. Thanks for the help.


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Try not to touch them or bother them until they pip. Every time you do you introduce the fact of infection. Quick visual once per day is adequate. I remove them as they come out, some leave them in the incubator until they all come out. Your preference.

the waiting game is really nerve wracking.
they should at least have their poking noses out. i've had one die in the egg, it's head was underneath and couldn't breath.
to answer the question, you worry when you stop seeing signs of life. so if you see movement, all is good.

Mine were incubated at 88.3 and they came out on day 62 and 63.

So an update one came out with the yolk dragging around. So I put it in a deli cup with damp towels. I thought it would have absorbed the yolk but none of it. Under closer investigation I found that the cord was twisted and began to smell very bad. I tied it off this morning. It was a large yolk sac though. She seemed very active out of the egg but now she barely moves. Her skin is starting to look dry and she looks almost dehydrated. This is my first clutch so I am very worried. I really don't want to lose this one because it was the only lesser in the clutch out of 6. I know great odds. I don't have a weight as of now. Any suggestions on what to do? Should I assist feed it something? Just to give it some energy because it looks very tired and exhausted. Please someone reply soon!


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Yes, you need to assist/force feed her, if it's possible with 1-2 mouse pinkies. If she didn't absorbed any of her sac, she don't have enough energy to keep up until her first shed. Tie the umbilical cord with dental floss close to the snake, and cut off the yolk sac. I remember there is a thread somewhere about that process, I hope someone can link to here.

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Originally Posted by Felidae

Yes, you need to assist/force feed her, if it's possible with 1-2 mouse pinkies. If she didn't absorbed any of her sac, she don't have enough energy to keep up until her first shed. Tie the umbilical cord with dental floss close to the snake, and cut off the yolk sac. I remember there is a thread somewhere about that process, I hope someone can link to here.

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Thank you I'll assist feed her one today after school . I will keep you all updated. What should I put her in for the time being?


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If her yolk is still attached that deli cup will be best for now. Since it's wrapped around her, it needs to to be tied off and the cord cut immediately (if it has not already been removed). The danger of a wrapped cord is very serious and should be attended to straight away.

Once that is taken care of, I would feed, assisting if need be. The a 6qt shoe box tub with damp paper towels, like you would for any hatchling, will be fine for her.

Should I just do one mouse pinky? Or 2


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Originally Posted by Edd_138

Should I just do one mouse pinky? Or 2


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Might as well do two if you're going to force feed. Want to make it worth it since it's really stressful for the snake.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...y-Graphic-Pics

The animal should be left alone for at least 24 it will either make or not, if it does this will allow the animal to re-gain some strength.

Remember assisting is stressful and if done when the animal is already weaken state it could be fatal.

Also forget pinkie mice

Depending on the size of this BP you can assist with a large fuzy if the BP is very small, however if it is within normal hatching weight range just assist using a small hopper.

Pinkie mice are colubrid food not BP food and you want to assist one prey not two, so you limit the stress.

Do not force feed simply assist, force feeding should only be done if assisting fails.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...y-Graphic-Pics

The animal should be left alone for at least 24 it will either make or not, if it does this will allow the animal to re-gain some strength.

Remember assisting is stressful and if done when the animal is already weaken state it could be fatal.

Also forget pinkie mice

Depending on the size of this BP you can assist with a large fuzy if the BP is very small, however if it is within normal hatching weight range just assist using a small hopper.

Pinkie mice are colubrid food not BP food and you want to assist one prey not two, so you limit the stress.

Do not force feed simply assist, force feeding should only be done if assisting fails.

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Thank you I will buy the small mouse hopper tonight and give it to her in the morning haven't been home all day. So it will be 24 hours in the morning. Will let u all know what ends up happening.


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It may be helpful to dip the hopper in warm water so it slicks the fur back a bit. If you've never assist fed before, just be patient. It is not the easiest thing to do and the snake is not used to having something shoved into it's mouth. Once you get the hopper well in their mouth, they may try to throw it so just hold it in there until the snake starts mouthing the prey item and pulling it in. You may have to try a few times before it takes it down so get someplace where you are comfortable.

Generally I'm not that type who go against Deborah, but now I feel that. That snake is probably underdeveloped and too week to handle a 12-14g hopper. The umbilica not closed and the bigger pray can make damages. Before the first shed even possible that the assist feed will fail and need to push gently the pray in the throat to get the swallowing reflex. I don't say that a hopper will kill her, but it's more risky. Few times I ran through this with carpets, but never with balls, so maybe I can be wrong. Every other cases I would say the same, for a hatchling give a hopper mouse.

I'm also going to advise against assist feeding just pinky mice. BTDT and frankly, they're so delicate that if your snake puts up any kind of a fight or spits it out, you end up with squished pinky goop all over your fingers and nothing in the snake's belly. Even small fuzzies have this problem.

I have found a very easy way to assist feed is to get two frozen/thaw feeders. One will be something like the mouse pinky/fuzzy/hopper you want the snake to eat whole, depending on the size of the snake. The other feeder should be larger, such as an adult jumbo mouse or rat weanling, again depending on the size of the snake. For a small ball python I would probably get a jumbo mouse.

Thaw both feeders in warm water and cut one of the hind legs off of the larger f/t feeder at the hip where it meets the body. Assist feed the hind leg first by bending it at the hock joint, and use the fur-covered joint (not the toes or cut end) to gently pry open the snake's mouth - using even a fuzzy to do that can make the fuzzy nasty as well. Push the hind leg hock-joint-first into the back of the snake's mouth, which is pretty easy since it doesn't squish like a fuzzy or hopper can. You can even use your pinky finger to push it down past the point of no return, if you don't mind potentially getting nipped in the process.

Once the snake starts swallowing the hind leg it's easy enough to chain-feed the whole prey behind it by sneaking the feeder's head in the snake's mouth, but you do have to be quick about it.

If the hind leg and whole feeder are damp they seem to go down the hatch more easily too.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...y-Graphic-Pics

The animal should be left alone for at least 24 it will either make or not, if it does this will allow the animal to re-gain some strength.

Remember assisting is stressful and if done when the animal is already weaken state it could be fatal.

Also forget pinkie mice

Depending on the size of this BP you can assist with a large fuzy if the BP is very small, however if it is within normal hatching weight range just assist using a small hopper.

Pinkie mice are colubrid food not BP food and you want to assist one prey not two, so you limit the stress.

Do not force feed simply assist, force feeding should only be done if assisting fails.

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Well I assist fed it a mouse hopper this morning. Well he wasn't having it after about 30 mins. So I decided to force feed it. He took it and did not regurgitate it. I will see when I get home. Also he was not tongue flicking at all. She I worry about this?


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Originally Posted by Edd_138

Well I assist fed it a mouse hopper this morning. Well he wasn't having it after about 30 mins. So I decided to force feed it. He took it and did not regurgitate it. I will see when I get home. Also he was not tongue flicking at all. She I worry about this?


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Good now just leave it alone and feed again once it first shed. Offer food just like you would any other hatchlings live hopper mouse, it might take it if by then it regained strength.

Be prepared that it might not shed like normal hatchlings do and might take a bit longer if that is the case and you do not see the regular shed process, offer in 10 days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Good now just leave it alone and feed again once it first shed. Offer food just like you would any other hatchlings live hopper mouse, it might take it if by then it regained strength.

Be prepared that it might not shed like normal hatchlings do and might take a bit longer if that is the case and you do not see the regular shed process, offer in 10 days.

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Ok will do thank you so much for the help. Also none of the others have come out yet. That was the only one. Some have poked their heads out but none out of the egg. It is day 64. And when should I expect them to shed?


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Originally Posted by Edd_138

Some have poked their heads out but none out of the egg. It is day 64. And when should I expect them to shed?

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Figure 7-10 days after they leave the egg for the first shed. Offer the first meal 7 days after that.

So I weighed her today she is only 31 grams?!?! How great haha she still isn't tongue flicking though should I be concerned about that?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edd_138

So I weighed her today she is only 31 grams?!?! How great haha she still isn't tongue flicking though should I be concerned about that?

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Other than quick peeks to make sure she hasn't made a mess and she has water, stop fooling with her and leave her in peace to digest her meal.

I hope will be everything okay with her. If she's 31g with the 10-14g hopper, I can imagine she's a really small hatchling.

Man bad news she regurgitated the hopper


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I have many things in my head, but what can I say.. I pray for your little one.

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Originally Posted by Edd_138

Man bad news she regurgitated the hopper


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So sorry to hear that! I would just make sure the hatchling is staying at the proper temperature and humidity. Keep a bowl of fresh water nearby and make sure she stays hydrated. That will be key. Don't worry about any solid foods until she shows signs of recovery and alertness. All fluid therapy is what the hatchling needs now. Probably will need a tube feeding in about 4 to 5 days. The fluid therapy should be aggressive. Diluted Pedialite will be a good choice for now and make sure all fluids are warmed to at least 82.0f - 84.0f. Both soaking and drinking water should be warmed. Absolutely nothing solid by mouth. The regurgitation has irritated her esophagus and gastrointestinal flora. Please be gentle and try not to handle her much at all except for placing her into the bowl of diluted warmed Pedialite . Good luck and she should respond to this but it may be a slow process.

I shouldn't force feed her again right?


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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

So sorry to hear that! I would just make sure the hatchling is staying at the proper temperature and humidity. Keep a bowl of fresh water nearby and make sure she stays hydrated. That will be key. Don't worry about any solid foods until she shows signs of recovery and alertness. All fluid therapy is what the hatchling needs now. Probably will need a tube feeding in about 4 to 5 days. The fluid therapy should be aggressive. Diluted Pedialite will be a good choice for now and make sure all fluids are warmed to at least 82.0f - 84.0f. Both soaking and drinking water should be warmed. Absolutely nothing solid by mouth. The regurgitation has irritated her esophagus and gastrointestinal flora. Please be gentle and try not to handle her much at all except for placing her into the bowl of diluted warmed Pedialite . Good luck and she should respond to this but it may be a slow process.

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Sorry didn't see that haha. Yeah I haven't been holding it at all just a quick peek last night and sure enough I saw it right there. I will do this therapy tonight as I'm not going to be home all day.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edd_138

Man bad news she regurgitated the hopper


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edd_138

I shouldn't force feed her again right?


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Absolutely not!!! The principles of resuscitation and recovery are always to replace fluids first and foremost. In reptiles those fluids need to be warmed and aggressively administered. You may need to get the evaluation of a good herp vet Who can administer fluid boluses
by injection. But in the meantime you can really help by making sure the hatchling gets initial rehydration by drinking and soaking in warmed diluted Pedialite solution. Actually a herp vet may elect to administer a oral tube feeding feeding once the animal has been rehydrated.

So far 3 other babies have emerged and all seem healthy there was a bit of yolk left in their egg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...88e2beb900.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...262c66333a.jpg

One of the babies emerged but was deformed and also didn't absorb the yolk. It's stomach looked like it was super sucked up. It looked like someone stuck a needle and suck everything out of it
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...9af11e6038.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...50b72b42a5.jpg

There is one still in the egg and is doing good as far as it looks. The rest of the babies are all tongue flicking and look very active. Even the little lesser is doing better it is tongue flicking and looks way more active than it was before. From the looks of it it will get through the first shed with no problem. How often does this happen though? Is it common for babies not to absorb all their yolk? 2 of them emerged but left some of it in there and it was all dried up. Could this be a humidity issue? I didn't think it would be a problem since I was using hatchrite. And there was only a pinhole in the whole thing for ventilation. Also I was wondering about the diluted pedialite solution. What is that and how does it work? At the moment I have all the hatchlings on a damp paper towels in their rack all together with a water dish.


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You cut too early. This is possibly why you are having issues now. The sunken belly is due to the yolk not being absorbed. Assist feed after they refuse an appropriate size meal 3-7 days after first shed. No handling, no pictures, no peeping. Just perfect conditions in individual shoe box tubs with moist paper towels.