Question about my first feeding of live rat

So I bought my BRB from a local exotic pet store that only fed her live rats. Tomorrow is our first feeding day at home and I don't know if I should put her into a Rubbermaid container to feed her or just put it into her terrarium. She's 4 years old and a good size with zero aggression when we take her out of her terrarium, or ever.

Also, if I put her into a Rubbermaid to eat, do I put in the snake and drop in the rat, or how do I do it? Should I put the rat in first? I'm open to suggestions. Any help is appreciated!

heres a pic for the heck of it :)
http://imgur.com/oWUkU0g
http://imgur.com/oWUkU0g

Also, do I need to raise or lower the temp after she eats for a while? Warmer is better than cooler when digesting, right?

Feed directly in her enclosure, do not feed outside of it. Just drop the rat in and let the snake do her thing. No need to change the temps, the snake will find the correct temperature for what it needs. Just make sure to not leave the room until the rat is dead, many times a scared rodent can do serious damage to a snake.

I'll be watching this thread with interest .....

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Feed directly in her enclosure, do not feed outside of it. Just drop the rat in and let the snake do her thing. No need to change the temps, the snake will find the correct temperature for what it needs. Just make sure to not leave the room until the rat is dead, many times a scared rodent can do serious damage to a snake.

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Josh is so right about feeding in her enclosure. Some pet store workers and websites will tell you that you need to feed outside because the snake will start biting whenever you put your hand in if you feed in the enclosure. That is so untrue. My snake feeds inside the enclosure and has never bite me yet. I believed it at first and tried to feed outside in another tub but all I succeeded in doing was stressing her out (and me). She never did eat outside of her enclosure. Once the live mouse used her head as a trampoline to try and jump out of the tote.
Although I would like to mention since I keep her in a plastic tub, if I put the room at 82 or even 84 a few hours before I feed her she will be more likely in the mode to eat. Other days I can keep it at 79-82. After she eats I can turn the room temp back down to 79-82 since I have the UTH temp set around 90 on the warm end. But room temp is a factor when you use plastic tubs and UTH heat and a little warmer sets the mood better I have found.
Also size matters when it comes to rats with my snake. Even though she is big enough to eat a medium rat, she won't. Live, F/T, doesn't matter, she shys away from a large meal for some reason. She will eat 3 mice or one small rat which look like an over sized mouse but NO Medium rats, period. And I need to use a hair dryer to dry and warm up the water thawed rat to around 90 because she doesn't want her small rat wet either, she likes em dry, warm and fluffy. But she loves live and will eat F/T if I do it as stated. Once she gets larger she might eventually go to mediums (which would be better for her) but right now she just won't eat a medium, so I guess a small rat every 7 days will be the schedule. Just had a thought, I wonder if I should try 2 small rats less often or one more often.
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Beautiful Snake by the way.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'll be watching this thread with interest .....

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curious why...

Full of good info. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by JimJam

curious why...

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Curiosity itself . I'm a Brit and we just don't feed LIVE so I'm always looking out for accounts of LIVE feeding .

Other than that I'm not allowed to say .......

Oh, it's you again, Zincubus.

Everyone said everything that needs to be said. Make sure you have tongs on the go to the rodent's mouth away from biting your snake. Mice can barely do any damage when they're constricted. Just watch out for those mice who knows what's going on and will go after your snake to defend itself. I've had some times where my snake covered the mouse of so much I didn't see it biting her, but it barely left a mark and it'll be gone in a shed or two.

Gorgeous snake! I'm a brit and I've fed live when necessary (hatchlings, desert spider on 13 month hunger strike lol) I've heard of people keeping a pencil handy incase the food has its head free (to give it something to bite) I've never had to intervene. You may be surprised at how efficiently constrictors kill. I always used to think there would be minutes of suffocating but it really is more like instant heart attack. It's not something I enjoy but sometimes you don't have a choice. It may be worth trying yours on a thawed frozen rat with the head heated above room temp first, you may be surprised. Could be that the pet shop just found it easier to stick with live :) either way good luck and again, congratulations on such a stunner!

Well, unfortunately it didn't go well. The snake was uninterested in the rat and the rat started getting aggressive towards the snake so I immediately took the rat out. The next morning I killed the rat, and tried feeding it to her, but again, no luck. I left it in the cage for a few hours before removing the rat. She's only been home with me for about 9 days now so maybe she's still adjusting. I hope anyways. She seems happy and nice otherwise. I'll try again next weekend and give her all week to be alone and not be handled so she can feel comfortable in her terrarium. Any other ideas guys/gals? Oh and I think I'll be trying frozen thawed from now on. It was too stressful thinking the snake could be hurt. :-/

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Originally Posted by JimJam

Well, unfortunately it didn't go well. The snake was uninterested in the rat and the rat started getting aggressive towards the snake so I immediately took the rat out. The next morning I killed the rat, and tried feeding it to her, but again, no luck. I left it in the cage for a few hours before removing the rat. She's only been home with me for about 9 days now so maybe she's still adjusting. I hope anyways. She seems happy and nice otherwise. I'll try again next weekend and give her all week to be alone and not be handled so she can feel comfortable in her terrarium. Any other ideas guys/gals? Oh and I think I'll be trying frozen thawed from now on. It was too stressful thinking the snake could be hurt. :-/

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Read anything you can find on feeding defrosted . There are so many clever little ways of enticing or fooling the snake :)

Warming up seconds before offering by dunking in very warm water or even using a hairdryer . Even defrosting the rat in the snake room will help as they soon get the scent .

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Originally Posted by JimJam

Also, do I need to raise or lower the temp after she eats for a while? Warmer is better than cooler when digesting, right?

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So long as you're providing an adequate ambient and hot spot there is no need to adjust temps after feeding.

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Originally Posted by JimJam

Well, unfortunately it didn't go well. The snake was uninterested in the rat and the rat started getting aggressive towards the snake

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I've never seen a rodent just suddenly start showing aggression towards a snake and I've been feeding live a couple decades. To help me better understand the situation, can you explain the offering in greater detail? Here are a couple questions that pop into my mind.

1) How big is the BRB?
2) What was the size of the rat in relation to the snake?
3) Was the rat hydrated and fed?
4) How did you present the rat to the snake?
5) Where was the snake and what was it doing when you introduced the rat?

The thing about rats, and mice, is they're omnivores - they'll taste just about anything when hungry. Making sure the rodent is properly fed and hydrated is step number one and will give your snake plenty of time to figure out what it wants to do before the rodent forces the issue. Unless the snake is in feed mode and ready to jump on the prey, they're more likely to get defensive or try to flee as soon as that rodent touches it's nose to them. Once that happens, 8 times out of 10, your feed isn't going to be successful. The rare successful feed in this situation happens when the snake strikes defensively and their teeth catch on the prey - this will almost always trigger a wrap simply because they are too vulnerable otherwise, instincts take over.

John, thanks so much for your interest!

The snake was under its largest hiding spot, which is a big hollow rock. Temps and humidity have been great. I opened the top of the terrarium and just dropped the rat in. That's what the owner of the pet store recommended. And just let "the snake do her thing." The pet store owner where I just purchased the snake(Skittles) has been feeding her "small rats". It was about 6-7 inches long from nose to tail end, a lot of tail.

Before dropping the rat in though I think I messed up by lifting the rock, and exposed Skittles. I let her know we were there and waiting a second before dropping the rat in. As soon as the rat went in the terrarium it started exploring the edges and corners. The snake seemed completely uninterested and stayed coiled up. The rat, while exploring, even walked over the snake like she was a rock. The snake reacted and put her face right up against the rats face and was flicking her tongue. The rat seemed to bite or snap at the snake's face. I'm not sure whether the rat actually got her, but she's been inspected and no signs of harm can be seen. Then the rat seemed to be "digging" to get under the snake, and I immediately took it out. This was all together about 4 minutes of activity. Again, no sign of damage on the snake, and she didn't seem to be reacting to pain or anything.

I have no idea how well fed or hydrated the rat was.
i would say it was appropriately sized, as far as girth of the snake and rat.
The BRB is about 4.5 ft long.

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Originally Posted by John1982

So long as you're providing an adequate ambient and hot spot there is no need to adjust temps after feeding.


I've never seen a rodent just suddenly start showing aggression towards a snake and I've been feeding live a couple decades. To help me better understand the situation, can you explain the offering in greater detail? Here are a couple questions that pop into my mind.

1) How big is the BRB?
2) What was the size of the rat in relation to the snake?
3) Was the rat hydrated and fed?
4) How did you present the rat to the snake?
5) Where was the snake and what was it doing when you introduced the rat?

The thing about rats, and mice, is they're omnivores - they'll taste just about anything when hungry. Making sure the rodent is properly fed and hydrated is step number one and will give your snake plenty of time to figure out what it wants to do before the rodent forces the issue. Unless the snake is in feed mode and ready to jump on the prey, they're more likely to get defensive or try to flee as soon as that rodent touches it's nose to them. Once that happens, 8 times out of 10, your feed isn't going to be successful. The rare successful feed in this situation happens when the snake strikes defensively and their teeth catch on the prey - this will almost always trigger a wrap simply because they are too vulnerable otherwise, instincts take over.

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Originally Posted by JimJam

Before dropping the rat in though I think I messed up by lifting the rock, and exposed Skittles. I let her know we were there and waiting a second before dropping the rat in. As soon as the rat went in the terrarium it started exploring the edges and corners. The snake seemed completely uninterested and stayed coiled up. The rat, while exploring, even walked over the snake like she was a rock. The snake reacted and put her face right up against the rats face and was flicking her tongue. The rat seemed to bite or snap at the snake's face. I'm not sure whether the rat actually got her, but she's been inspected and no signs of harm can be seen. Then the rat seemed to be "digging" to get under the snake, and I immediately took it out.

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Yeah, many snakes like to hit their prey from a secure location like their hide or a perch. Rats are naturally curious but it could have also been hungry, which would explain the digging around after taking a little test nibble - more like a lick with barely any pressure - on the snake's nose. You did right by removing it, that feed was going nowhere fast. If the rat was indeed hungry each test nibble would have been a bit harder until it hit paydirt or met his own demise - either scenario depending entirely on the snake's reaction to the situation. If you try live again, don't mess with the snake before offering - especially since it's a new animal and still adjusting to her surroundings. Without exposing the snake the rat would have likely made a few passes by the hide entrance while exploring, giving your snake a chance at an ambush if she was hungry and settled enough to accept.

The same principles apply when offering f/t or prekilled if you go that route. Until your girl is a strong feeder, and even after, you want to mess with her as little as possible during a feed.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Yeah, many snakes like to hit their prey from a secure location like their hide or a perch. Rats are naturally curious but it could have also been hungry, which would explain the digging around after taking a little test nibble - more like a lick with barely any pressure - on the snake's nose. You did right by removing it, that feed was going nowhere fast. If the rat was indeed hungry each test nibble would have been a bit harder until it hit paydirt or met his own demise - either scenario depending entirely on the snake's reaction to the situation. If you try live again, don't mess with the snake before offering - especially since it's a new animal and still adjusting to her surroundings. Without exposing the snake the rat would have likely made a few passes by the hide entrance while exploring, giving your snake a chance at an ambush if she was hungry and settled enough to accept.

The same principles apply when offering f/t or prekilled if you go that route. Until your girl is a strong feeder, and even after, you want to mess with her as little as possible during a feed.

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So if I put another live rat in, im worried it'll go inside her hide while she's in there and possibly have a damaged snake. Should I take her large hide out completely the day before feeding her maybe? That way they both won't be where I can't see what's happening. Thanks again for the advise. :gj:

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Originally Posted by JimJam

So if I put another live rat in, im worried it'll go inside her hide while she's in there and possibly have a damaged snake. Should I take her large hide out completely the day before feeding her maybe? That way they both won't be where I can't see what's happening. Thanks again for the advise. :gj:

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Leave the hide in there. You have a better chance at a successful feed if the snake feels secure. It's not likely the rodent is going to enter a dark hole with a questionable(snake) scent but you should be supervising regardless. I know it's a step down in size but a 4.5 foot BRB is still a fairly slender snake. Try a rat crawler next time and you can leave it overnight without fear of anything bad happening to your girl. Once she settles and starts feeding for you, bumping up the size shouldn't be an issue.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Leave the hide in there. You have a better chance at a successful feed if the snake feels secure. It's not likely the rodent is going to enter a dark hole with a questionable(snake) scent but you should be supervising regardless. I know it's a step down in size but a 4.5 foot BRB is still a fairly slender snake. Try a rat crawler next time and you can leave it overnight without fear of anything bad happening to your girl. Once she settles and starts feeding for you, bumping up the size shouldn't be an issue.

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Ok cool, I'll do that. To be clear, by rat crawler are you meaning the same as a "fuzzy". I don't know where you're from so we may call the same thing something different. Thanks for your help John, really.

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Originally Posted by JimJam

Ok cool, I'll do that. To be clear, by rat crawler are you meaning the same as a "fuzzy". I don't know where you're from so we may call the same thing something different. Thanks for your help John, really.

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Rats grow fast! You want something right around 2 weeks old - about when their eyes start opening and they're crawling all over the place. By week 3 they're much more mobile and eating a fair bit of solid foods - tasting just about everything they bump into.

Yeah the less you disturb the snake and it's surroundings the better off you will be when feeding. And I have had quite a few mice and rats curiously enter inside a hide, and most the time don't come back out. Also if F/T doesn't work then you might for a while try a couple live mice, one at a time. My snake's favorite menu item is live mice. If my snake doesn't eat a live adult mouse it probably isn't going to eat. I like to keep my ambient or inside the tank temp at around 80 or 82 when feeding. Also the total weight of the feeding shouldn't be more than 15% In other words a 200 gram snake should eat 30 grams max. I now usually feed a small F/T rat.

I have fed live rarely (as in, twice lol) but perhaps pre-scenting the room would be a good idea? have a solid kirtter keeper or something else the rat can't chew out of. Give it a small bowl of water and some food (cereal, dry pasta, dog food, etc.) to munch on while waiting. Place in the room soon after the lights go out near the snake's enclosure. Wait a couple hours and then feed. This will get the snake interested in the scent, and since BRBs are night feeders, waiting until it is well and truly past dark will help. I agree with offering a smaller meal. This works with my f/t feedings as well.