RIP Guin

Unfortunately it seems that Guin never healed from her regurgitation, or whatever went wrong didn't clear up. I found her dead when I came home from work. She was loosely coiled up on her hot side and and had bitten her tongue. One eye was like normal and the eye facing up was deflated and clouded over. She was stiff when I found her, but slightly limber, so she had to been dead 5-6 hours, she had to have died soon after I left for work.

She was acting perfectly normal when I left, showing no signs of being uncomfortable and reacted normally to my touch, I tried not to bother her too much but I needed to at least check on her since she'd recently regurged. She hasn't shown any signs of being adverse to her hot side, I've seen her switch between sides like a normal snake. Never seen her in her water dish or wrapped around it.

I can only guess it was a sudden spike in temperature, judging by how she appeared to have contorted, which may have caused her regurge in the first place. When I came home, her thermostat was reading 80F and currently sending power to her heat tape and the surface of her tub was right around 79F. Unfortunately, Hydrofarms do not record low and high temps so I was unable to tell if there had been any spikes in temperature during the day.

I had her thermostat set to 82F for a target range of 78-80F, which should have been within parameters even if the tub's floor was reaching the thermostat's set temperature.

I had her heat tape set up the exact same way everyone else's is: with the probe in the middle of the heat tape in between the bottom of the tub and the heat tape. Secured in place with aluminum tape and completely covered with the tape.

As far as the regurge incident here is a re-cap:

Her first meal was a fuzzy-sized hopper, which she passed perfectly about a week later. No regurges and normal stool, wasn't smelly or anything.

Her second meal was a normal-sized hopper, which I was hesitant about feeding but figured since she was already on hoppers just give her the smallest one of the bunch. 3 days later she had a small regurge that seemed to be the mouse's skin but no fur judging by the white color and gummy texture. 4 days after that she had a very unusual stool that appeared to be underdigested. It was dark in color, with fur mixed in but no distinguishable shapes. I assumed I had just not provided enough heat for her to digest the larger meal and bumped her thermostat up by one degree.

I still have that stool sample, but it's dried out on some paper towel. Will they still be able to use it for testing?

In hindsight, I probably should have taken her to the vet the following day after that weird stool, but I made assumptions and she paid for it. This is Day 5 after that weird stool, and 12 days since her last meal.

I plan on getting a necropsy done if possible. I will be going out to the vet on Monday to see about getting a necropsy done. She's currently in the fridge so hopefully her body is still usable.

She's been in quarantine in a separate area, and I've tried to handle her last when I do. So everyone else should be ok if it was some sort of disease that killed her, and no one is acting unusual as of right now. Everyone has passed normal urates and stool over the past several days.

RIP Guin.

(I did find a worm in her urates when I looked through her tub, but I'm not sure if it was from her or the bedding. The closest thing I could find on Google was a gnat larvae, but regardless I'll be taking her urate in for testing as well just in case.)

so sorry for your loss

I'm sorry for your loss.
The dried stool is probably useless but you might as well take it in when you bring her for necropsy.
I hope they can tell you what happened, the worst part is when they can't find anything. She was still a baby, sometimes they just don't make it.
My sympathies.

I'm so sorry. :tears:

So sorry.:(

Cloudtheboa, I am so sorry.

Your detailed records should help the vet determine the cause. I'm wondering if perhaps it was a bacterial infection? (Cryptosporidium comes to mind, but I don't remember any of the details.) Maybe its not too late for the vet to get a culture.

I use Hydrofarms too. Never gave any thought to spikes. I tend to think our snakes aren't all THAT delicate, and it's not like nature always provides a perfectly steady temp either. Not sure what to think there.

Please let us know what the vet says.
Hugs.
Distaff

I called the vet and they told me to take her to the local Vet Disease Center. I wrote down what I could on the report and they told me to call them later today to see if they've gotten to her yet. Apparently they've got a lot of animals to look at so they may not start until tomorrow.


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I hope you get this solved and you can at least get that closure. I'm sorry for your loss of your baby


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Thanks everyone this was a sudden and terrible loss. At this point all I can hope is nobody else is affected. Her tub has been removed and will be very deeply cleaned, but kept for any emergency housing or anything like that. Nymeria was in quarantine with her so I will be keeping a close eye on her. She would be coming out of quarantine now, but I'll have to wait for the results. If they don't turn up any communicable diseases I'll go ahead and take her out of quarantine.


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Sorry...

so sorry... [emoji20]

Sorry I haven't updated here in awhile.

The vet's best guess as to what happened was a mix of a meal too large and too low of temperatures caused her to be unable to digest properly and that's what killed her. It's also possible that particular mouse was bad, but my BCI and other BRB have been eating the same mice from the same bag as her mouse, and 3 meals later they're still doing good.

Here are some photos of the final report:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...b3b35c8df4.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...ab70ebdcf0.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12...89d8ef1bd2.jpg

Although the room was heated and she had heat tape, wet moss stays very cold where it isn't being heated directly, which could have given her a chill if I hadn't turned her heat up enough. I do keep Sanji 3-4 degrees warmer than I kept her, but I was worried about her overheating.

It's still very ambiguous as to what caused her infection, but we know for sure she died from a septicemia infection caused by salmonella. Which was made clear by how large the colonies were and the fact they were found in her intestines and liver.

To me, the fact the brunt of the infection was located in her intestine, the forefront of all digestion, suggests a digestive issue and the vet seemed to agree as well. The pneumonia they found was very mild, not a cause of her death but a by product of her septicemia.

Either way, all my other animals are doing very well even weeks after her death, so I don't think I have to worry about them.

I also plan on getting two more BRBs from the same breeder. They should be here in the spring, and I'll be sure to keep them away from the heater, feed them meal sizes I normally offer my snakes, and I'll be keeping them on paper towels rather than immediately putting them on moss, just to be sure. I may scatter a bit of moss but it won't be their entire bedding. So hopefully this doesn't happen again.


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I'm sorry. I think people get so worried about overheating these snakes that they forget they do need heat to digest.

The danger comes when the ambient temp is over 85*F and they have nowhere to go to cool off. BRB's can do perfectly fine with belly heat even up to 87-88*F as long as the ambient isn't that high, and they have access to a cool area in the mid-70's.

I figured heating the room to 82F and providing heat tape as well would be too much, but wet moss does stay very cool so maybe that counteracted the warmness of the room.

I will be keeping the new ones on paper towels, maybe with some sparse moss, and keep them in a non-heated room.


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Hey Cloud,

I am bummed for you. I know you are tuned into feeding properly and have done wonders for the real CLOUD by adjusting diet and temps and letting him shed pound and fat.

I will read the posts here a bit more in depth later and see if there is anything I can help you with, but honestly there is no "I told you so" coming from me.

Keep studying and working to provide your other snakes with what they need.

You are a GOOD keeper!

Sorry for your loss, that sucks!

Thanks, Gio. I'm hoping my luck will be better with my two new ones coming in. I did well with Sanji, so hopefully making the changes from what I suspect led to her death will lead to a nice long life for the others. :)


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So Sorry for you loss Cloud

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