Adult Size and Age

Can a python (Morelia) still grow 2ft or more in length if they are already 4 years old? I specifically made it clear to people that I was looking to buy a python species that would reach 8-10ft in length as an adult if fed properly. I also made it very clear that I would NOT be happy with a python that only got to be 7ft in length. I was told by multiple sources that Boelens, (females) will definitely fit this size range and on average will get to be 9ft. I was told most pythons will/should reach full adult size around 4 years old if fed properly. I was also told that Boelens should not be eating anything larger than a large rat, or an X-large rat in some cases. Therefore, I simply made sure that she was eating large rats, (175g or more) by 4 years old. Well, now she just turned 4 years old and is feeding on one 185g large ray every 7 days, but only 7ft in length. I'm afraid that I grew mine up too slow and just want to make sure that I didn't permanently stunt her growth by doing so. I hope to have her eating one 250-275g large rat every 10 days at some point and she can still grow to 9ft. Please let me know if it's too late for this or if there is still time for her to grow to be 9ft.

Thanks,
Leo

What's the fascination with 9 feet?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

There is no fascination with 9 feet, I simple prefer to own a pet python that is between 8-10', maybe even 11' tops. I simply would not want to have a python that is less than 8ft, and over 11' is too big. With my size preference aside and more importantly, do you have any answers to my questions?

The answer is "maybe". With time and feeding, they may grow to that size range. Or they may not.

Is it worth it to you to wait and see? Is a 7 foot snake worthless to you?

Its pretty disturbing to see that you appear to be focused on the size of the animal to the detriment of everything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doggtyred

The answer is "maybe". With time and feeding, they may grow to that size range. Or they may not.

Is it worth it to you to wait and see? Is a 7 foot snake worthless to you?

Its pretty disturbing to see that you appear to be focused on the size of the animal to the detriment of everything else.

---

I do have to say, this is true, it might get there at a slow rate, or it might not.. In the long run do you seriously love your snake less if it's not 9ft? Because if so, should you even have the pet to begin with??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is also pretty disturbing to me that you are judging my preference in size with pythons and ignoring what I am asking. I do not judge keepers who prefer small pythons or giant pythons, everyone is different. The most important thing when considering a python as a pet is the size! To me, a python under 8ft is not what I'm looking for and pythons over 11ft can be difficult to manage and are too big for me.

To answer your questions, no I would not love/care for my python any less than if it was the size I wanted. If anyone ELSE can add their input on what I am asking about adult size and age without being judged, please feel free.

A boeleni female not completely grown at her age 4. It's even a big limit for breeding too. Just patience, with regular meals she will get the dream size.

Roughly for a lot of constrictors if not most, after 4-5 yrs the growth RATE slows down quite a bit. But she should still grow.
On AVERAGE Boelens get to 9 feet. That means plus or minus is included.

I have no experience with Boelens.

Is your situation normal? Maybe not, but Boelens are rare and there are not lot of people with actual experience as a whole to give an agreed definitive answer.

You may want to rethink that new feeding program. From what I have read, these special snakes have a fast metabolism and one week feeding is the norm.

Going up in food size can put additional strain on their kidneys and liver.
Personally, I would not want this for my snake since Boelens are not considered as hearty as the other pythons. Likewise, this thought may be due to a lack of cumulative experience and is false.

If you yourself raised this snake for 4 years it sounds like you are a very responsible keeper with an attention to details. These snakes are proposed as very difficult to raise. Maybe the secret code has been found and these aren't so difficult now.

I would keep doing what you are doing and see what the next couple of years hold. If you are still disappointed, sell her. I know that I would be interested, maybe if the husbandry is not as difficult as presented.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE post pictures of this mega awesome snake!!:please:
They are soooo cool! :gj:

It may get 8 to 10 feet, it may not. There's absolutely no guarantee one way or another. If someone wants to be absolutely certain they are getting a snake that fits their exact parameters, whatever they might be, buying it as an adult is the best bet.

I hope DennisM checks in. He has a lot of Carpet experience. He may have some good info and advice.

I put a turtle in a 10 gallon aquarium and it never outgrew it. True story, on its 10th birthday it was still the size of a quarter, and happy and healthy! :rolleye2:

OK OK, Boelens are a rare thing in this hobby, they are expensive, extremely slow to age, and people have constantly been unsuccessful breeding them in captivity, but that's beyond the point. Your question raises a point that needs to be answered: Growth potential does not result in a guarantee. The retic world is well aware of this with the vast majority never meeting there true potential, and some being over achievers. I'd say at 4 years old, your Boelen's will likely still grow given it has food and heat to increase its metabolism. As a general rule with Morelia, you can increase the food size, without much hurt, but if your snake begins to grow outwardly instead of in length, its a good time to cut back the food intake. My Irian Jaya pair are incredibly slow growers despite being fed large prey items their entire life, just some do not grow that fast. My male just turned 4 and is only about 4 ft in length, but healthy, and just gave me a perfect shed. The female is about 5' and the same age. She's starting to add girth, so her food will slow down a little bit. . . the take home message from this ramble is quite simple. Some snakes will get big, some will stay small. Just like in humans the rate at which they metabolize will vary and with that variation will come growth variation.

On a side note, truly jealous of a 4 year old Boelen's. Please post pictures, they are a true gem in this hobby!

*side bar* If I was in your case wanting that size range of snake, I would've went Black-headed Python personally.

boelenis need to keep in special climatic conditions, in this case to increase the heat is not a good idea. With good feeding schedule and good husbandry, she'll get the size. With 4 years she just a teenager.




/But now I'm sad a little bit.. I love Boelens, and I collected as many informations what I could, and visited the closest people who keeping them to learn everything before I get one. In that topic the question is: Will my boeleni female growing up to X size? Most of the people who answered don't have an idea about that snake and don't gave the proper answer for the question (Respect for the exception). And what I see I go against the mass, cause people like that answers. Everyones problem that the OP wanted that snake for get the size what he like. We're in the same shoes.. We keep different ball morphs because we like their look. We keep reptiles because they're beautiful and interesting in our way, not because they bring back the ball if we throw./

First . . . A Boelen's?! Is it too late for me to board the snake fan envy train? That's my dream species right there :oops:

Reptileexperts and Felidae really said it for me best. Boelen's are very different and do have very different requirements from other pythons -- and being a cooler-climate, higher-elevation animal, they do grow slow. Especially a female. Your girl is young, there is plenty of time. You've probably already seen this, but in case it has more tips: http://www.boelenspythons.com/home.html

Thanks, everyone for your support. Although, I'm not really understanding the replies. Perhaps, I shouldn't have even mentioned my size preference with pythons and the species of python I have, since it's off topic.

I just would like to know if a keeper grows up a python slowly by slightly underfeeding them, can they still reach there potential size down the road, or can doing this permanently stunt their growth?

Meaning, if you have a python that on average should be 6ft in length at 4 years old, but the python is only 4ft in length at 4 years old due too underfeeding. If the keeper then picks up the pace with feeding safely, can the python still reach it's potential size at say 6 years old instead, or is it too late to try and catch up?

I have asked exotics vets and dozens of people when at what age pythons should be full grown and most say 4 years old.

I do believe I grew my boelens up slowly by offering mice/rats that were on the smaller side, just because I was nervous about overfeeding. I thought is would be better to grow her up slowly then too quickly. Although, I have always been consistent with feeding her, always 1 item every 7 days since she was 3 months old.

Also, what do you think about feeding two medium rats that both add up to 200 grams V.S. one large rat that is 200 grams? Some say due to fat content large and extra large rats should be avoided.

I would post some pictures but don't understand how to. Thanks

4 years across all python species is not accurate and its wrong to make such assumptions by a keeper or a vet. The thing is, not a lot of people are experts in the topic of Boelen's. The co-author of "The complete carpet python" who wrote this book with Nick Mutton, Justin Julander, is one of the leading experts and has spent time studying this species in the wild.

All that aside, another species that little is done with in captivity is the Timor Python, a favorite of mine. I only mention this because many people tried to breed this snake and have failed or given up. Why? Because they made the assumption that they are breed ready by 4 years of age. The correct answer seems to lean toward 7 years for Timors. Boelen's are likely to be the same. Due to their cooler climate, they do not metabolize as quickly as other species. This is crucial to understanding the species. This slower metabolism means less meals consumed in the wild, and slower growth as well as a longer period till they are ready to breed. I hope this gives a little more information to answer your question.

Do not force an increase in metabolism by increasing heat - you will likely find that the snake stays on the cooler end of the cage. Again, just my two cents.

All snakes grow differently but I believe an animal that's fed a healthy diet will eventually reach it's designated size. Animals that are fed more generously will get there faster vs. a more conservatively fed animal but they'll both get there. I don't agree with power feeding but I can understand safely accelerated growth. My yearling coastal carpet python was a bit undersized when I got him from the breeder. He was being fed a small meal every 10 days on average. I increased his prey size and feeding frequency. He's not quite as large as the average 18 m/o coastal but he's coming along well. I believe he'll still end up in the 7-9 foot range that most coastals grow to but I'm cool if he's a little over or under the average size. For your more mature python you could offer larger meals on the same 7 day feeding schedule or feed her your regular sized meals a bit more frequently. If you feed her every 6 days instead of every 7 days that gives you an additional 8-9 feedings per year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinz

I hope DennisM checks in. He has a lot of Carpet experience. He may have some good info and advice.

---

Unfortunately, I have no experience with Boelen's. All I can say is I have never had a morelia in my collection that experience a 2 ft increase in length after the age of 4. It's impossible to say if this snake is truly undersized, 7 ft is well within normal parameters for this species I believe. I did acquire a pair of JCP some years ago that were severally undersized for their age, 3 year olds that looked like yearlings, they never attained normal JCP size, but did experience considerable growth both in length and girth in my care. I'd guess they increased their length by probably 1/3 once put on a proper feeding regime. So if this snake is truly undersized due to a minimalist diet, I guess there's hope.

Having said all that in my previous post, I don't think we can draw much from my experiences with m.s.mcdowelli and m.s.cheynei in this case. Boeleni are not your typical carpet python. As noted by others, they have quite different requirements due to their natural range's environment. I find Reptileexpert's comments on the Timor's maturity age interesting. Though they've been in the hobby for a while now, I think there is still much to be learned about Boeleni in captivity. The limited success breeding them supports this.

to OP, I would up the prey size if the larger rats fit into the "about the same girth as the snake" theory. At 250-300 grams the rats have not yet moved into the "just a fat rat" category. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out, perhaps your experience will help add to the hobby's collective knowledge of this somewhat mysterious species.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leosantare

Thanks, everyone for your support. Although, I'm not really understanding the replies. Perhaps, I shouldn't have even mentioned my size preference with pythons and the species of python I have, since it's off topic.

I just would like to know if a keeper grows up a python slowly by slightly underfeeding them, can they still reach there potential size down the road, or can doing this permanently stunt their growth?

Meaning, if you have a python that on average should be 6ft in length at 4 years old, but the python is only 4ft in length at 4 years old due too underfeeding. If the keeper then picks up the pace with feeding safely, can the python still reach it's potential size at say 6 years old instead, or is it too late to try and catch up?

I have asked exotics vets and dozens of people when at what age pythons should be full grown and most say 4 years old.

I do believe I grew my boelens up slowly by offering mice/rats that were on the smaller side, just because I was nervous about overfeeding. I thought is would be better to grow her up slowly then too quickly. Although, I have always been consistent with feeding her, always 1 item every 7 days since she was 3 months old.

Also, what do you think about feeding two medium rats that both add up to 200 grams V.S. one large rat that is 200 grams? Some say due to fat content large and extra large rats should be avoided.

I would post some pictures but don't understand how to. Thanks

---

To start off the species and size preference aren't off topic as every snake and every species is different. I think that you are having a difficult time getting a concrete answer because there simply is not one available.

Comparing one species to another is very difficult because every species is different in pretty much every aspect of life. Sure, there are some generalizations that can be made, but may not fit into every situation. Yes, 4 years can be general for some species, some species will continue to add length for the entirety of their lives, even if that length is a minuscule amount.

The reason the vets you talked to have you the responses for pythons in general is probably because of limited snake experience, and chances are, no experience with boelens pythons. Remember, the species you have is very rare in the pet trade, and little is known about them in the captive environment in general.

As far as whether or not you stunted her growth, I doubt it as long as your feeders are an appropriate size. Snakes are not mammals, so they do not grow in the same predictable ways one can expect from say, a cat or dog. It is also important to reiterate that there is little experience in the hobby with your species so it is possible that they simply have a slower growth rate than that of more well known carpet python species.

To address the question of feeders, do what you feel is best as long as they are an appropriate size for your snake. If the extra large or large rat is better for your situation and your snake is healthy then do that. It tends to be easier all around if you can feed with a single feeder than multiple (speaking from experience one is much less extra work).

Good luck in your endeavors, and do try to be patient and don't be too disappointed if your snake does not hit the 8ft mark. Every animal is different and may not exactly fit into generalized averages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

I put a turtle in a 10 gallon aquarium and it never outgrew it. True story, on its 10th birthday it was still the size of a quarter, and happy and healthy! :rolleye2:

OK OK, Boelens are a rare thing in this hobby, they are expensive, extremely slow to age, and people have constantly been unsuccessful breeding them in captivity, but that's beyond the point. Your question raises a point that needs to be answered: Growth potential does not result in a guarantee. The retic world is well aware of this with the vast majority never meeting there true potential, and some being over achievers. I'd say at 4 years old, your Boelen's will likely still grow given it has food and heat to increase its metabolism. As a general rule with Morelia, you can increase the food size, without much hurt, but if your snake begins to grow outwardly instead of in length, its a good time to cut back the food intake. My Irian Jaya pair are incredibly slow growers despite being fed large prey items their entire life, just some do not grow that fast. My male just turned 4 and is only about 4 ft in length, but healthy, and just gave me a perfect shed. The female is about 5' and the same age. She's starting to add girth, so her food will slow down a little bit. . . the take home message from this ramble is quite simple. Some snakes will get big, some will stay small. Just like in humans the rate at which they metabolize will vary and with that variation will come growth variation.

On a side note, truly jealous of a 4 year old Boelen's. Please post pictures, they are a true gem in this hobby!

*side bar* If I was in your case wanting that size range of snake, I would've went Black-headed Python personally.

---

I had a black Headed female before I got the female Boelens, which is one of my favorites. Although she died at 7 years old from FLD. Her underside actually started to turn green and was passing neon green urates. She was 8.5ft and by no means fat which my vet at the time agreed. I was feeding her 1 large rat every 7 days, which is why I raised the question 1 large rat vs two medium rats. In the end, I don't think large rats are bad and my black head just got FLD with me doing things correctly. After she passed I wanted to get another python and reached out to many about my 8-11' size range and heard the boelens is just as big as the BH and more heavily bodied. Well, this doesn't seem to be the case. My female boelens who turned 4 years old 30 days ago is about 7'3" and I just fed her a 186gram rat and feel that it may have been to large, I think I will back down to 170grams.

Boelens seem to be pretty easy to take care of. The only issue I have is keeping the humidity above 50% while keeping the enclosure around 81 degrees, which can lead to incomplete sheds. Other than that, no problems, not to mention my boelens is the most friendly python I ever had. I will correct you on one thing, Boelens are know to have a FAST metabolism.

What species of pythons (females) have the best odds of growing to 8-11' when fully grown? I believe there are many that fall under and some that go over, but not many that fit this range. I can only think of the Coastal Carpet, BH and Boelens.

I'm checking in with an update. She now is feeding on 170-190g large rats every 7 days and is about 7'9". She does appear to be adding a lot of girth now and don't feel comfortable increasing the rat size until she thins out by either growing in length or adding girth to her neck/head. Her head/neck looks like its starting to be to small for her body or vice versa. Can enclosure size play any role into growth? She has be cramped in a 4ft wide x 2ft tall x 2ft deep enclosure for close to three years now. I plan to have her in a 8ft wide x 4ft tall x 4ft deep enclosure in the next 2 months. Hopefully/can she begin to grow in length again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leosantare

I had a black Headed female before I got the female Boelens, which is one of my favorites. Although she died at 7 years old from FLD. Her underside actually started to turn green and was passing neon green urates. She was 8.5ft and by no means fat which my vet at the time agreed. I was feeding her 1 large rat every 7 days, which is why I raised the question 1 large rat vs two medium rats. In the end, I don't think large rats are bad and my black head just got FLD with me doing things correctly. After she passed I wanted to get another python and reached out to many about my 8-11' size range and heard the boelens is just as big as the BH and more heavily bodied. Well, this doesn't seem to be the case. My female boelens who turned 4 years old 30 days ago is about 7'3" and I just fed her a 186gram rat and feel that it may have been to large, I think I will back down to 170grams.

---

Side track here:
What is FLD? Couldn't find anything that matched it in a search.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leosantare

I'm checking in with an update. She now is feeding on 170-190g large rats every 7 days and is about 7'9". She does appear to be adding a lot of girth now and don't feel comfortable increasing the rat size until she thins out by either growing in length or adding girth to her neck/head. Her head/neck looks like its starting to be to small for her body or vice versa. Can enclosure size play any role into growth? She has be cramped in a 4ft wide x 2ft tall x 2ft deep enclosure for close to three years now. I plan to have her in a 8ft wide x 4ft tall x 4ft deep enclosure in the next 2 months. Hopefully/can she begin to grow in length again?

---

Enclosure size has nothing to do with growth. A larger cage MAY increase her movement, in turn giving her more exercise and that exercise may recruit more muscle leading to her urge to feed more.

However, I find my boa constrictor will not use his cage space if he is always well fed. I find him more active when he has to hunt for his food and it is not available all of the time. My coastal carpet is all over the place, but she is not eating at all this winter.

It sounds like you have seen some growth as of late which is what you want.

Here is a little info that Gus Rentfro used to give people that wanted big boa constrictors. He would tell folks that the largest boas in nature are the oldest boas.
In captivity most people overfeed their animals. Overfed animals (snakes) NEVER reach the golden ages of properly fed snakes. A long, lean older snake is better than a young fatty that grew to quickly and tuned inactive and unhealthy.


Patience and time is what you need here. When they give the approximate size of a species, the research is often from the wild. In the wild, the sample is from the specimens they find, and little is known about the ages, odds are the BIG ones are the oldest ones. When they give the " size range" the largest sample animal is usually the exception and not the rule. So you get the smallest, with a give or take, everything in-between and the largest sample give or take.

In captivity some of the growth equation changes but a snake that is kept healthy and is allowed to feed properly, digest, eliminate and hunt again will eventually grow to it's potential over the long haul.

I'm not well versed on the diet of your snake, but if there is some variation in prey type and prey size, look into it. I feed my snakes quail, rats, and small rabbits.

If the need for size is immediate, add another snake that is an adult, or close to it.

Otherwise stay the course.

By chance do you know the age and size of the parents of your animal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by distaff

Side track here:
What is FLD? Couldn't find anything that matched it in a search.

---

FLD is Fatty Liver Disease

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Enclosure size has nothing to do with growth. A larger cage MAY increase her movement, in turn giving her more exercise and that exercise may recruit more muscle leading to her urge to feed more.

However, I find my boa constrictor will not use his cage space if he is always well fed. I find him more active when he has to hunt for his food and it is not available all of the time. My coastal carpet is all over the place, but she is not eating at all this winter.

It sounds like you have seen some growth as of late which is what you want.

Here is a little info that Gus Rentfro used to give people that wanted big boa constrictors. He would tell folks that the largest boas in nature are the oldest boas.
In captivity most people overfeed their animals. Overfed animals (snakes) NEVER reach the golden ages of properly fed snakes. A long, lean older snake is better than a young fatty that grew to quickly and tuned inactive and unhealthy.


Patience and time is what you need here. When they give the approximate size of a species, the research is often from the wild. In the wild, the sample is from the specimens they find, and little is known about the ages, odds are the BIG ones are the oldest ones. When they give the " size range" the largest sample animal is usually the exception and not the rule. So you get the smallest, with a give or take, everything in-between and the largest sample give or take.

In captivity some of the growth equation changes but a snake that is kept healthy and is allowed to feed properly, digest, eliminate and hunt again will eventually grow to it's potential over the long haul.


I'm not well versed on the diet of your snake, but if there is some variation in prey type and prey size, look into it. I feed my snakes quail, rats, and small rabbits.

If the need for size is immediate, add another snake that is an adult, or close to it.

Otherwise stay the course.

By chance do you know the age and size of the parents of your animal?

---

I was hoping enclosure size had something to do with her growth. She still is very active, she takes a nap for about 3 days after she eats but then she all over the place. Her feeding response is just as strong, if not stronger than always. Boelens are CH from West Papua and had no way of getting info on her parents. I guess I will continue to feed rats every 7 days until she is 5 years old, then every 10 days. Like I said she is about 7'9" and hope she gets to be 8'6". I would be happy with that. She is awesome and the friendliest snake I ever met. She actually rubs up against me with her head/face in a twisting way as if she was a cat! What would you say the chances of her growing 9" in 12 months are?

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../4/jasmine.jpg

You'll be fine.

That's a beautiful animal. It will get bigger and better with time.