How do you feed Your Ball Python?

Just curious...because I have heard that if you feed your snake in only one tank, then it will associate eating with every time you open the cage, or something like that, and then it will end up biting your hand.

i used to feed my girl in her tank but i dont have the repticarpet for my new tank so i just feed her in my old tank because that is the one with the repticarpet not the reptibark

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because I have heard that if you feed your snake in only one tank, then it will associate eating with every time you open the cage, or something like that, and then it will end up biting your hand.

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I dont think thats true,lately ive been feeding everyone in thier tanks and everything is just fine.

I think thats just for people who never handle thier snakes and they only open it for feeding.
But if you are handling daily (exept for after feeding) then you should be fine

oh i herd the same thing you did about snakes assiciating the opening of the cage to eating. Even if its not true i still like to take that precaution so there is absolutly no way that she can mistake me opening the cage to mean food time hehe. i have a completly seperate box that she gets fed in.

Yea, ditto i feed my ball in a seperate tank ( tubberware) just in case there could be a possiblity of him associating me opening the tank with dinner time

Has anyone actually had the expirience of having trouble handling their snake becasue they only kept it in one cage? Well, I suppose it would be hard to know for sure if that was the reason your snake was striking at you anyway.

.. who was it that said they had a routine of knocking on the tank 3 times, taking it out w/ a snake hook as opposed to hands, & placing it in a different tank for feeding? whoever it was, they said it worked awesome

I lay newspaper down before I feed *in the tank* so maybe he will get used to knowing that that means feeding time.

if you have one or two snakes takeing them out and feeding is ok but when you have few snakes taking them all out and feeding is alot of work that is not needed them only time i take them out to feed is when i check there weight.

Seems theres so many topics like this, lol.

As I've probably said before, if you ask me, that hand in cage = food rumor is just that...a rumor. Maybe if you left your snake in its cage all the time, and just went in the cage to feed it, then maybe that could happen. But any good keeper will tell you that you have to go in the cage atleast a few times a week for spot cleaning and water changing, so why would the snake associate your hand in the cage as food if you go in the tank for other reasons also? If anything, the snake would associate you in the tank to the spot cleaning and stuff since that's what you're in their for most. You usually only feed once a week. You should spot clean atleast once every few days. So yeah....the rumor doesn't make sense to me.
IMO, unless you have a loose substrate and you're afraid of the snake ingesting it, there's no reason to feed outside of the cage. Even if you do have loose substrate, just do what I do and lay a sheet of newspaper down over the substrate for feeding.

Cody hit the spot

If you have a loose substrate or more than one animal in the enclosure (I know, not recommended, but people do it), then I highly recommend feeding outside the enclosure. If you feed live and can't supervise properly without using a separate enclosure because of your setup, I recommend a separate enclosure. Other than that, I think it's what works best for the individual keeper and snake. My Bo Peep (still lost, BTW, send those good snakey-finding vibes) hated being fed in a separate container when I tried that the first few times after getting him, but was a good eater in his own enclosure (no more striking at anything but prey), but with other snakes it hasn't seemed to make much difference either way.

I have 6 balls. Each are fed outside the tank. I do this for two main reasons. I feed live and I use Aspen as a substrate.

I am the one that does the knock three times, use a snake hook and seperate tub routine. My snakes know it means feeding time. Regardless of whether you feed in their enclosure or a seperate tub, setting up a distinctive routine that your snake will associate with feeding time really helps. 95% of the time my snakes have the rat coiled up inside of 30 seconds of the rat being introduced to their feeding tub. They don't mess around. They are eagerly awaiting.

I agree 100% with Shrap about setting up a routine. With a recognizable routine, your ball pythons will be much more consistent feeders no matter how you choose to feed them.

I prefer feeding in the enclosure. In my experience, moving ball pythons around for feeding can sometimes be stressful to them and they seem to feed more consistently inside of their own enclosure using their hide as cover to stalk and strike out at a prey item (wether it be live, FT, or PK).

(These comments are just my opinion and certainly not the only way to take proper care of a ball python :D)

Marla, what do you mean by "loose substrate"??

-adam

I think she meant anything particulate (bark chips, aspen etc).

In tank here as well.

Is the concern about feeding on "loose substrate" an impaction issue?

-adam

I feed in the tank... after I hit snake # four it started to be a pain in the bum.

Ive yet to have a snake mistake my hand for a mouse... you do got to be careful if it smells like rodent in their enclosure though. When I fed my bci the other day, I droped in the rat, bent over to pick somthing up and heard a THUD. The thing was going for my head and hit the glass...
She has a killer feeding response though...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Is the concern about feeding on "loose substrate" an impaction issue?

-adam

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I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the concern is partially impaction, but more about the life-threatening infections that can occur when a piece of substrate pierces the skin in the mouth either on strike or when swallowing. It is also, to a lesser degree, about the possibility of large pieces getting in the way of or throwing off a strike when using a chunky substrate. Obviously which of these are relevant depends on what loose substrate is being used. With corn cob for example, impaction is a definite concern, but substrate getting in the way or piercing the skin are not concerns at all.

Marla,

Are your concerns about feeding on loose substrate from personal experience with ball pythons or something you read or were told?

I'd like to try and discuss this without things getting heated :D. I have a lot of experience feeding on all different kinds of substrates (I'm currently using sani-chips) and also know for fact that many large ball python collections are kept on aspen and cypress mulch and thousands (at least) of ball pythons are fed on those substrates each year without incident. I think that a healthy mind can certainly imagine all kinds of horrible scenarios happening when feeding this way, but the reality is that in practice those things rarely ever happen.

-adam

Smulkin nailed it. Anything from CareFresh to gravel counts as loose substrate for me. Reptile carpet, articificial turf, tile, news or other flat paper, etc., would be the "non-loose" substrate options, as opposed to chipped, shredded, chunked or anything particulate.

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Originally Posted by Andrew00

Just curious...because I have heard that if you feed your snake in only one tank, then it will associate eating with every time you open the cage, or something like that, and then it will end up biting your hand.

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That is someting I have always heard as a good argument for seperate feeding tanks, but I have never had it proven on my fingers. I use kritter keepers for my corns and ball to eat in and use a hook to slip them back into their regular cage in case their feeding response is still in gear when I go to put them back, maybe overcautious - but nothing is harmed by the extra steps.

2 other reasons I have found for this to be a good idea though...

1 - My corns love to defacate right after eating. Cleaning a KK out is much easier than letting them soil their home.

2 - Accidental ingestion of substrate. A bit of bark or aspen shavings gets stuck to the mouse and swallowed can lead to a potential health hazzard. I have never known anyone first hand to have this problem, but its like seatbelts, you will really wish you had used them after it is too late.

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Originally Posted by MilkmanWes

My corns love to defacate right after eating. Cleaning a KK out is much easier than letting them soil their home.

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Good point. Corns are also no where near as easily stressed as ball pythons, and they are not known for fasting like ball pythons. This strategy would work great for corns.

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Originally Posted by MilkmanWes

but its like seatbelts, you will really wish you had used them after it is too late.

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Well, this arguement could certainly be made for any of a number of husbandry related choices when keeping herps. A loquacious debater could probably argue that with a strategy of doing whatever you can to eliminate risk from the keeping of captive reptiles, the most logical strategy would be to not keep them at all. The reality is that in the short time that I've been posting here there have been more issues relating to snakes getting respiratory infections, scale rot, and dying from escaping their enclosures than from swallowing loose substrate and getting ill or injury from some of the other hotly contested "risky" husbandry practices :twisted:.

Just my thoughts.

-adam

i feed in tank

but i put down newspaper first so that

A) He can't accidently eat a peice of the substrate (i use repti bark)

and
B) So the mouse ( i feed live) doesn't pee all over his home while he gets into striking mode

for the people that feed in a different enclosure, how long do you generally wait untill you put them back in their cage?

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I have a lot of experience feeding on all different kinds of substrates (I'm currently using sani-chips) and also know for fact that many large ball python collections are kept on aspen and cypress mulch and thousands (at least) of ball pythons are fed on those substrates each year without incident.

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Wow! I cannot fathom the potential expense involved in that! How often do you have to switch that stuff out and what sort of bulk amounts do you buy in?

Just curious.

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

for the people that feed in a different enclosure, how long do you generally wait untill you put them back in their cage?

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It's probably at least 30 mins. I wait until the lump is down to the lower third of the body and I carefully support his body when I move him back to his tank. I always wait until Issa has decided to explore his feeding box and he has been done swallowing for a while.

I have a loose substrate, and while what I use is supposed to be safe if swallowed (coconut coir), Issa will never accidently get a mouthful when he's trying to eat.

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

for the people that feed in a different enclosure, how long do you generally wait untill you put them back in their cage?

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Roughly 5 to 15 minutes. It really depends on the snake. When they get done eating and are cruising the feeder tub, I put them back.

You see this is another reason I like feeding outside of the "home". It allows me to observe and to get to know my snakes better. I spend a lot of my free time truly observing my animals. Learning. Each of my Balls personalities and behaviors are so different in so many little ways. I have always found it all totally fascinating. Truly knowing your snake, and your snake knowing you, is as important as providing the proper environment.

I am only dealing with 8 snakes though. For folks like Adam, feeding outside of the "home" is just not an option. One reason is his experience and beliefs that they feed better in their "home" (1 of my 8 balls only eats in its "home"). The other is the amount of snakes he has to care for. It would not be practical and would be too time consuming when feeding outside the "home" is not needed in any way. It is just a matter of choice.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

Wow! I cannot fathom the potential expense involved in that! How often do you have to switch that stuff out and what sort of bulk amounts do you buy in?

Just curious.

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Every box gets fresh chips once every 4 - 6 weeks, or as needed (spot cleaned daily of course).

I purchase it by the truck load. It shows up on pallets a couple of times a year.

Shrap, the size of my collection is really not the issue. If there was a real risk in feeding inside the enclosure or on loose substrate I would either keep fewer snakes or hire more help to get feeding done in a safe manner. I feed my ball pythons inside their enclosures because it is safe and because they eat more consistently that way.

-adam

Oh I have no worries about feeding inside enclosures or on loose substrate. It is perfectly safe. That was part of my point. That feeding outside their home really has no benefit over feeding inside their home. So when you have a bunch of snakes, why do it? I know as my collection grows I will not be taking every single one out and feeding in seperate tubs. 8 is manageable (well 7, since one does eat in its home), but when I have 30...40....50 over the next couple of years....lol, no way.

I feed mine in her cage. There's newspaper in there, many many sheets of it, so if little mousy guts come out or blood gets on the paper, I just take out what is soiled and replace it. No worries here as we have an abundance of newspaper... Breeds like rabbits I tell ya ;)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Marla,

Are your concerns about feeding on loose substrate from personal experience with ball pythons or something you read or were told?

I'd like to try and discuss this without things getting heated :D. I have a lot of experience feeding on all different kinds of substrates (I'm currently using sani-chips) and also know for fact that many large ball python collections are kept on aspen and cypress mulch and thousands (at least) of ball pythons are fed on those substrates each year without incident. I think that a healthy mind can certainly imagine all kinds of horrible scenarios happening when feeding this way, but the reality is that in practice those things rarely ever happen.

-adam

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Some of each, actually. While debating can be fun, I'm not really in a mood for it right now, so suffice it to say that this, like most aspects of reptile husbandry, comes under the category of "whatever works best for both the animal and the keeper" for me. You'll notice in my original post, what I said was that I would recommend a certain approach, not that it was required or the only appropriate way to do it.

I don't think there are a lot of absolutes in this, just things that tend to work out better for more people and animals than other things. Can you keep a ball python alive without providing supplemental heat? Depending on ambient temps and general health, yes, possibly for many years. Can you feed live and/or on loose substrate without a single negative consequence? Again, yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball alive without thermometer, hygrometer, thermostat, etc.? Yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball in the same enclosure with one or more other reptiles? Yes, possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball without hides or on pine or with visible light 24/7 or with irregular water changes or spot-cleaning only? Again, sure, and possibly for many years. Can you keep a ball with one or more heat rocks or unmonitored heat sources? Yes, possibly for many years.

Basically, I work out what works for me, taking into account information from other keepers and sources like the Ball Python Manual, and I observe what seems to work for my snakes. If it works for me and my snakes, I do that until I find an approach that works better, and I offer my experience and first- and second-hand acquired information to other keepers to use or discard as works for them.

Well said Marla!

I feed my bp in tank (I have newspaper substrate), never had any problems.

As far as setting up a routine, that's a good idea. After thawing out the rodent, I bring it into the "snake's room" to heat it up under a heat lamp. As soon as I take that stinky rat out of the bag, my bp smells it and starts cruising his cage like crazy, flicking his tongue, looking for the food. As soon as I lower the rat into the tank, he strikes within seconds.

For people with mulitple snakes and not time to take each out and feed them it makes sense. My feeling on this is since i have only 1, i have the time to take the extra(maybe not to needed) saftey steps so that it makes me feel better about keeping her safe. Granted that most of you feel that feeding them in their cage and on loose substrate is not really an issure. Since i have the time to do this, i just feel "better safe then sorry"

Marla,

I definitely agree with you as far as there being many ways to be successful keeping these animals, I was just asking because in your first post on the thread you said:

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Originally Posted by Marla

If you have a loose substrate or more than one animal in the enclosure (I know, not recommended, but people do it), then I highly recommend feeding outside the enclosure.

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After reading that statement it made me wonder if you felt strongly enough to "highly recommend" feeding outside of the enclosure due to a mishap from personal experience or just opinion? Counting my own collection as well as the sizable collections of many of the larger ball python breeders that I've discussed this topic with, I don't have any incidents to share. I thought that an actual documented feeding accident on "loose substrate" would have been a valuable addition to this thread. I apologize if my questions was taken the wrong way.

It's too bad that you're not in the mood to discuss this further, your input is always valuable and appreciated.

-adam

here is my 2 cents on this. I have my bp on aspen because I like the way it looks. I feed in the tank, but before I feed him I lay newspaper down to avoid him ingesting any substrate. I don't know if he knows newspaper=feeding time but it seems like it to me. As soon as I lay the newspaper down he will start cruising the tank flicking his tongue almost like he knows whats coming. But then agin he just might be cruising and flicking because of the new introduction to his enclosure.

-Troy

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Marla,

I definitely agree with you as far as there being many ways to be successful keeping these animals, I was just asking because in your first post on the thread you said:

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Originally Posted by Marla

If you have a loose substrate or more than one animal in the enclosure (I know, not recommended, but people do it), then I highly recommend feeding outside the enclosure.

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After reading that statement it made me wonder if you felt strongly enough to "highly recommend" feeding outside of the enclosure due to a mishap from personal experience or just opinion? Counting my own collection as well as the sizable collections of many of the larger ball python breeders that I've discussed this topic with, I don't have any incidents to share. I thought that an actual documented feeding accident on "loose substrate" would have been a valuable addition to this thread. I apologize if my questions was taken the wrong way.

It's too bad that you're not in the mood to discuss this further, your input is always valuable and appreciated.

-adam

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I appreciate your assessment of my input. I'm just really tight on time right now (aren't we all?) and trying to still participate on the site because I enjoy it. To answer your question, I have never fed multiple animals in the same enclosure (though I did keep a pair of clutchmates in the same enclosure for a week or so when they first arrived), and the only time I've used a loose substrate was the brief corn cob usage discussed elsewhere when one of my snakes came with it in the enclosure.

However, a friend of mine had a young male bp kept on a non-pine wood substrate (I don't know which but it was dark and somewhat like playground surface, not shavings) and had a feeding-related incident that resulted in an awful abcess in the poor baby's mouth and he wouldn't eat for months afterward -- despite prompt vet attention. Another friend had a bci that got impacted, and the vet's best guess was that it was eating chips/shavings along with the rodents when it ate and they were essentially filling pockets or folds in the intestine.

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Originally Posted by Marla

To answer your question, I have never fed multiple animals in the same enclosure (though I did keep a pair of clutchmates in the same enclosure for a week or so when they first arrived), and the only time I've used a loose substrate was the brief corn cob usage discussed elsewhere when one of my snakes came with it in the enclosure.

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I don't think it was me that asked about feeding multiple animals in the same enclosure. I personally feel that housing (let alone feeding) more than one animal per enclosure is irresponsible and careless no matter what the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Marla

However, a friend of mine had a young male bp kept on a non-pine wood substrate (I don't know which but it was dark and somewhat like playground surface, not shavings) and had a feeding-related incident that resulted in an awful abcess in the poor baby's mouth and he wouldn't eat for months afterward -- despite prompt vet attention.

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Dark wood substrate? Sounds like something from a home and garden center maybe? Did the vet comfirm that the abcess was in fact from the substrate? I've seen ball pythons kept on newspaper develop abcesses inside of their mouths, so the link between the substrate and the injury could have been more assumption than fact.

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Originally Posted by Marla

Another friend had a bci that got impacted, and the vet's best guess was that it was eating chips/shavings along with the rodents when it ate and they were essentially filling pockets or folds in the intestine.

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Best guess? So a necropsy wasn't done on the animal? How was the vet even sure that the snake was impacted? Sounds like the vet is a little fishy on this one, maybe blaming the substrate for something that he/she didn't have the first clue about. What were the snakes symptoms that led the vet to believe that it was an impaction?

I have to be a little skeptical with stories like these. There are so many snakes (not just ball pythons) being kept in tremendous numbers by professional breeders and being fed on aspen and cypress mulch. If impaction/accidental ingestion was even as remotely possible as many people are led to believe, I am sure the pro's would find an alternative. Personally, I feel that feeding on these substrates is safe.

On a side note Marla, between your experiences with live feeding injuries, injuries from feeding on loose substrates, and your recent lost snake, I feel extremely blessed that I've been able to keep these animals for 25 years without similar problems. Your continued enthusiam for keeping ball pythons in light of your experiences is definitely an inspiration! Thank you for taking the time during this very busy week to share.

-adam