Pros/cons of tortoise ownership?

I know subforums aren't very active but I thought I would try.

I have always wanted a tortoise. Through research I've decided I like the small Eastern Hermann's the best but I'm so unsure. I've researched forums and care sheets but I keep getting conflicting info.

Some say an enclosure can be a rabbit/guinea pig cage. Some say tanks are good and some say they aren't. Some say vivs and some say no vivs.

Some say babies are hard to care for and some say they aren't.

Some say they hate handling and some say they love it...

So much conflicting info and it's driving me nuts!!

Any help is appreciated. This is a big decision considering how expensive they are and how long they live.

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Im glad that I stumbled across this thread, I actually have a baby sulcata and I recently went through all of the conflicting information on the web regarding tortoises. First, let me direct you to tortoiseforum.com. It is a WONDERFUL resource for new tortoise owners. Tom over there can literally tell you everything that you need to know for the tort. To begin to answer your questions, there has been a lot of updated information surrounding tortoise care in recent years that is allowing these animals to live much better and healthier lives. We are starting to understand that for many species of tortoise, high humidity is absolutely critical especially in the early years of life to prevent shell pyramiding. I am not 100% up to date on Hermans tort care, but I believe that they likely do need increased humidity to thrive, around 60-70%. This is usually hard to accomplish when using a tortoise table or any other open type of enclosure. I would go with an enclosed chamber type setup, which will limit ventilation and help keep humidity and ambient temps stable. As for rearing babies, if you stick to the guidelines from the tort care sheets on tortoiseforum.com you will be fine. Make sure you buy from an established breeder, and that you are receiving a healthy and eating baby. Generally baby tortoises shouldn't be handled too often. They can experience intestinal torsion and other internal issues if they are moved around too rapidly. Once older, most tortoises are gregarious and happy to interact with people. Definitely get over to the tort forum and good luck!

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Im glad that I stumbled across this thread, I actually have a baby sulcata and I recently went through all of the conflicting information on the web regarding tortoises. First, let me direct you to tortoiseforum.com. It is a WONDERFUL resource for new tortoise owners. Tom over there can literally tell you everything that you need to know for the tort. To begin to answer your questions, there has been a lot of updated information surrounding tortoise care in recent years that is allowing these animals to live much better and healthier lives. We are starting to understand that for many species of tortoise, high humidity is absolutely critical especially in the early years of life to prevent shell pyramiding. I am not 100% up to date on Hermans tort care, but I believe that they likely do need increased humidity to thrive, around 60-70%. This is usually hard to accomplish when using a tortoise table or any other open type of enclosure. I would go with an enclosed chamber type setup, which will limit ventilation and help keep humidity and ambient temps stable. As for rearing babies, if you stick to the guidelines from the tort care sheets on tortoiseforum.com you will be fine. Make sure you buy from an established breeder, and that you are receiving a healthy and eating baby. Generally baby tortoises shouldn't be handled too often. They can experience intestinal torsion and other internal issues if they are moved around too rapidly. Once older, most tortoises are gregarious and happy to interact with people. Definitely get over to the tort forum and good luck!

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Thanks for the reply. I'll pop over there and sign up.

Do you find them really time consuming? I had a bearded dragon and I couldn't handle the upkeep. She pooped like 10 times a day and ran through her food bowl and spread her food everywhere. I had to do a deep clean on her cage every single day and it was just too much for me. It seems like torts will be a little easier? Obviously they need greens every day but they seem more easygoing than a lizard.

I've been in contact with a breeder and they are going to have some Hermann's available next year so I've got lots of time to buy my supplies and research :)

Regarding time commitments I honestly feel like torts are way easier than lizards to keep. Once you get the environment set up correctly you really just need to worry about feeding every day or other day. I find that I can put in enough food for two days at a time. I add water to his bowl, and soak the substrate every other day as well. I have all the lights/heat on timers so never have to worry about that. It is nice to not have to worry about thawing rodents or getting crickets. All of his food I get at the grocery store. Just grab a few handfuls of the greens/weeds, add a bit of mazuri and youre good to go.

To add to what I posted earlier, there are a few more positive aspects I have come across regarding torts. One, they have a very low ability to escape. They can manage to climb somewhat, but it is nothing compared to lizards and snakes for obvious reasons. Also, never needing live prey items for them makes life a lot easier. Additionally, even if you don't interact with them for long periods of time, they still maintain a docile temperament. I honestly have loved having my sulcata so far. He has proven hardy, interesting to interact with, and relatively easy to care for. That being said, you always need to be prepared for the size component when housing torts. Hermanns don't seem to get too big, so you wont have to worry about that aspect.

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Originally Posted by hazzaram

Some say babies are hard to care for and some say they aren't.

Some say they hate handling and some say they love it...

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Babies do tend to have a rather high mortality rate that's only compounded by the hands of a novice keeper. If you decide to get your first tortoise I strongly urge you to pick up a yearling. They are pretty much bullet proof by this time and still small enough that you'll get the baby feeling.

Most tortoises don't enjoy being picked up and held but they do seem to thrive on positive interactions. I'm greeted by my tortoises every day when I make my outside rounds. They follow me around looking for neck scratches and food handouts. Tortoises are some of the most rewarding reptile pets you could possibly own - definitely tops in the intelligent interaction category.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Babies do tend to have a rather high mortality rate that's only compounded by the hands of a novice keeper. If you decide to get your first tortoise I strongly urge you to pick up a yearling. They are pretty much bullet proof by this time and still small enough that you'll get the baby feeling.

Most tortoises don't enjoy being picked up and held but they do seem to thrive on positive interactions. I'm greeted by my tortoises every day when I make my outside rounds. They follow me around looking for neck scratches and food handouts. Tortoises are some of the most rewarding reptile pets you could possibly own - definitely tops in the intelligent interaction category.

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From what I have read and heard from many sources is that hatchling mortality rates have as much to do with breeder husbandry issues as they do with novice owner issues. Seems that the so called 'hatchling failure syndrome' proposed by some tort breeders is rather an excuse for poor breeding standards and conditions.

To this end, choosing a respected breeder is paramount when it comes to torts. There are many breeders that churn out hatchlings, keeping them in substandard conditions. You want a well started baby that has a history of good feeding, has had ample UVB and no signs of illness. Also, to avoid pyramiding issues, you want to get a hatchling that has been started out in proper humidity and soaking practices.

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Originally Posted by hazzaram

Some say an enclosure can be a rabbit/guinea pig cage. Some say tanks are good and some say they aren't. Some say vivs and some say no vivs.
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You basically don't want anything the tortoise can see through or they will just constantly walk straight into the wall trying to escape. A tortoise table is super easy to build: just find an old table, throw 4 walls on it, seal it and you're good to go!

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Originally Posted by John1982

You basically don't want anything the tortoise can see through or they will just constantly walk straight into the wall trying to escape. A tortoise table is super easy to build: just find an old table, throw 4 walls on it, seal it and you're good to go!

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Don't do a tortoise table. For a hatchling you will want to keep the humidity high, up near 60-70% for a hermanns. My sulcata hatchling needs 80% humidity to avoid pyramiding. Unless you live in a very humid climate you will have a tough time keeping humidity up with all the heating elements and necessary lights. Closed chamber are the way to go for most tort hatchlings.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

From what I have read and heard from many sources is that hatchling mortality rates have as much to do with breeder husbandry issues as they do with novice owner issues. Seems that the so called 'hatchling failure syndrome' proposed by some tort breeders is rather an excuse for poor breeding standards and conditions.

To this end, choosing a respected breeder is paramount when it comes to torts. There are many breeders that churn out hatchlings, keeping them in substandard conditions. You want a well started baby that has a history of good feeding, has had ample UVB and no signs of illness. Also, to avoid pyramiding issues, you want to get a hatchling that has been started out in proper humidity and soaking practices.

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The statement stands, their high mortality rate is compounded in the hands of a novice because they do take more attention to detail and are much less forgiving of keeper errors.

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Originally Posted by John1982

The statement stands, their high mortality rate is compounded in the hands of a novice because they do take more attention to detail and are much less forgiving of keeper errors.

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Yes, a novice keeper who is uneducated in proper tortoise care does compound mortality rates. However, as the OP mentioned earlier, there is a TON of outdated, misleading and just plain incorrect information on the internet regarding basic tortoise care.

But, substandard breeding practices still stand as a major hurdle to a thriving hatchling. Many breeders will have dozens of mating pairs of torts producing large clutches multiple times a year. Frequently these babies are grouped together, and fed communally in a large enclosure. If care isn't taken to soak hatchlings, and maintain humidity standards, it is very possible to receive a dehydrated hatchling that wasn't eating.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

If care isn't taken to soak hatchlings, and maintain humidity standards, it is very possible to receive a dehydrated hatchling that wasn't eating.

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Honestly, soaking is only required if your environment is substandard. Them wild ones don't have someone placing them in a tub of water every day and you never see pyramiding there. It's a good practice if you're unsure but I think dialing in your parameters better is a healthier remedy longterm. Seems we both agree on one thing especially, buy from someone who is reputable and offering well started tortoises. Buying a yearling makes it harder for a seller to deceive you though. They all look pretty perfect right out of the egg but if they look good at a year - the seller is doing something right.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Honestly, soaking is only required if your environment is substandard. Them wild ones don't have someone placing them in a tub of water every day and you never see pyramiding there. It's a good practice if you're unsure but I think dialing in your parameters better is a healthier remedy longterm. Seems we both agree on one thing especially, buy from someone who is reputable and offering well started tortoises. Buying a yearling makes it harder for a seller to deceive you though. They all look pretty perfect right out of the egg but if they look good at a year - the seller is doing something right.

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The thing is that at least for sulcatas, they hatch during the rainy season, turning their environment into a marshy wetland. Hatchlings typically inhabit small burrows that frequently have small pools of standing water, resulting in natural 'soaks' and extremely high humidity.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

The thing is that at least for sulcatas, they hatch during the rainy season, turning their environment into a marshy wetland. Hatchlings typically inhabit small burrows that frequently have small pools of standing water, resulting in natural 'soaks' and extremely high humidity.

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Easily replicated, even with a tortoise table. :gj:

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Originally Posted by John1982

Easily replicated, even with a tortoise table. :gj:

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In a dry state like CO the ambient humidity will never be able to come close to the necessary 70-80% with a tort table.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

In a dry state like CO the ambient humidity will never be able to come close to the necessary 70-80% with a tort table.

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There are no rules against covering the top of a tortoise table. A false bottom is also good to have. It might not be needed but starting with one is a lot less work than adding it if you find you're having to make tortoise soup often. A couple inches of drainage layer, some mesh on top, substrate above the mesh. Really, so long as you reach your goals in the burrows/hides where your youngster is going to spend at least half of their time, you'll be fine.

A closed chamber sounds good for hitting humidity levels easily but terrible for everything else. I've always been a fan of high air exchange though and try to reach my goals with as much ventilation as possible. I'm in Florida though, everything humidity related is much less hassle here. If I lived in CO I'd probably turn my reptile room into a jungle with a bunch of water loving houseplants to help raise the ambient humidity in that room, then go from there.

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Originally Posted by John1982

There are no rules against covering the top of a tortoise table. A false bottom is also good to have. It might not be needed but starting with one is a lot less work than adding it if you find you're having to make tortoise soup often. A couple inches of drainage layer, some mesh on top, substrate above the mesh. Really, so long as you reach your goals in the burrows/hides where your youngster is going to spend at least half of their time, you'll be fine.

A closed chamber sounds good for hitting humidity levels easily but terrible for everything else. I've always been a fan of high air exchange though and try to reach my goals with as much ventilation as possible. I'm in Florida though, everything humidity related is much less hassle here. If I lived in CO I'd probably turn my reptile room into a jungle with a bunch of water loving houseplants to help raise the ambient humidity in that room, then go from there.

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Ah yes, in a warm humid climate like Florida things get a lot easier. Cold and dry CO makes it difficult. My closed chamber has some minimal ventilation, and has full air exchange daily during feeding time.