My BP died suddenly?

Hi, so I'm new to this and snakes. I had my little guy for alsmot 7 months, and everything was fine until July. Out of the 7 months that I had him he only shed once. I talked to many vets and breeders and everyone kept telling me it was fine, just wait it out. I fed him pinkies once a week. Anyways, about 3 weeks ago I noticed that he started to get red spots on his body, I thought it was scale rot, so I took slayer to the vet. She told me it wasn't scale rot that he was just dehydrated and I needed to up the humidity, so I did. Well 3 days ago I noticed that a piece of his scale actually came off so I called the vet again. She told me he couldn't come in until Monday and told me to get some antibiotic cream and soak him in betadine. I did that this morning, I put him in a clear tub with warm water and put just a little bit of it in there and let him soak for 15 minutes. I dried him off and put him back in his terrarium and he was fine. I came back maybe an hour later to check on him, and noticed that he had water bubbles coming out his nose, I took him back out and dried him again. I honestly didn't know what to do. So then he opened his mouth and it started coming out of it also. He then acted normal. I handled him for a few minutes and then left to go to the store. When I came home, I found him dead. Did I cause this? I feel so bad. He was so sweet and he made me fall in love with snakes. Is there any way I could have prevented this?

First off I am sorry for the loss of Slayer
what were your temps hot and cold side?
what was the humidity level at?
pinky mice or rats?
was your vet a reptile vet or just a normal vet?
was the antibiotic cream pain relief?
was your heat source regulated?
in order to find the cause we are going to need every piece of information you can think of and then some tho red spots under the scales and bubbles out the mouth and nose makes me think of a respiratory infection

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Originally Posted by StillBP

First off I am sorry for the loss of Slayer
what were your temps hot and cold side?
what was the humidity level at?
pinky mice or rats?
was your vet a reptile vet or just a normal vet?
was the antibiotic cream pain relief?
was your heat source regulated?
in order to find the cause we are going to need every piece of information you can think of and then some tho red spots under the scales and bubbles out the mouth and nose makes me think of a respiratory infection

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Cold side was between 70-75, hot 80-85 sometimes higher because it really cool in my room.
Humidity was between 65-75
pink mice
No, just triple antibiotic.
I had a fluorescent light and a heat lamp on. 12 hours on 12 hours off. And for night a infrared bulb
also, I noticed that he hadn't used the bathroom in awhile. I hadn't had problems with feeding for awhile until 2 weeks ago he didn't eat those two weeks or this week. I'm pretty sure it was a regular vet, but they told me to bring him anyways, I live in a really small town and every vet I called wouldn't see a snake, so when they said to bring him in i just took it.

Is a 7 month old ball python still going to be eating pinkies?

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Originally Posted by Jhill001

Is a 7 month old ball python still going to be eating pinkies?

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As I said, this was my first snake, and I didn't know much about them. I tried to do as much research as I could before I got him. The vet told me it was fine. Clearly she and I were wrong? But I'll take as much advice as possible, because I'd like to get another. I was going to live feed, but I didn't know what size to get him...

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Is a 7 month old ball python still going to be eating pinkies?

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unless you have a 40 or 50 gram hatchling no ball python should eat pinkey mice they are just too small

humidity was higher than i keep mine and temps were so so
my guess is upper respiratory infection but I am no vet
60% humidity temps 85 with a 90+ hotspot are needed
the small food items is why he only shed once for you
did you have a hotspot?
aquarium or tub?
did you have a under the tank heater?
also if you do intend on getting a new snake
do study up a bit more and find a good herp vet
get a under the tank heater and get rid of the lights
make sure the heater is hooked to a good thermostat
just about everyone here will help you do not be afraid to ask any questions

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Originally Posted by StillBP

unless you have a 40 or 50 gram hatchling no ball python should eat pinkey mice they are just too small

humidity was higher than i keep mine and temps were so so
my guess is upper respiratory infection but I am no vet
60% humidity temps 85 with a 90+ hotspot are needed
the small food items is why he only shed once for you
did you have a hotspot?
aquarium or tub?
did you have a under the tank heater?
also if you do intend on getting a new snake
do study up a bit more and find a good herp vet
get a under the tank heater and get rid of the lights
make sure the heater is hooked to a good thermostat
just about everyone here will help you do not be afraid to ask any questions

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aquarium. But it's not like a regular rectangle one.
no hotspot. I guess? I probably sound like an idiot because I don't know what you mean by that.
i do have a UTH.
One of my biggest problems was keeping the humidity up. I'd have to keep misting so often because of the heat lamp, it would get to down to 40% every 30 minutes.

A UTH provides a hot spot. Did you have a thermostat regulating it and one regulating the heat lamp so your snake wouldn't overheat?

Mouse pinkies would be way too small, ball python hatchlings typically start on hoppers and by six or seven months old should be up to rat weanlings. That's likely the reason he wasn't defecating, he was way underfed.

Heat lamp + tank + no cover = crappy humidity and a dehydrated snake. You either need to make a cover for the tank or toss it and use a tub + UTH.

Bubbles sounds like an upper respiratory infection which can take hold when the environment is too dry.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

A UTH provides a hot spot. Did you have a thermostat regulating it and one regulating the heat lamp so your snake wouldn't overheat?

Mouse pinkies would be way too small, ball python hatchlings typically start on hoppers and by six or seven months old should be up to rat weanlings. That's likely the reason he wasn't defecating, he was way underfed.

Heat lamp + tank + no cover = crappy humidity and a dehydrated snake. You either need to make a cover for the tank or toss it and use a tub + UTH.

Bubbles sounds like an upper respiratory infection which can take hold when the environment is too dry.

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No I only had a thermostat for the heat lamp. I only turned the UTH on a night to keep it warm when the heat lamp was off.
sorry for not being educated on this stuff, but what is a hopper? So if I were to get another, just get a frozen rat?
So getting something other than the "screen" lid that I have?

I'm not a vet but I would guess he was malnourished. I feed babies out of the egg a meal much larger than a pinkie mouse. A pinkie mouse is way way to small. By seven months he should be eating adult mice or weanling rats.

I wouldn't consider getting another snake until you are able to do some serious research on how to take care of them. All this information is readily available from multiple sources, this forum being one of them. I'm sorry this happened, it's so hard to lose a pet! But unfortunately this sounds like a result of completely inappropriate care - starvation, dehydration and unregulated heating.

Edit to add: I don't want to sound super harsh here. I know you were told these things were fine by a vet and you were trying to do right. Unfortunately when it comes to exotic and less common pets, it's really important to do your own research, because there's so much misinformation and a lot of vets, if they're not specialized reptile vets, don't really know the first thing about care or are relying on really old, outdated information. And pet stores are the absolute worst for this kind of thing. Reptile forums and groups are a great place to go for helpful, informed answers to your questions. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Snake Judy

I wouldn't consider getting another snake until you are able to do some serious research on how to take care of them. All this information is readily available from multiple sources, this forum being one of them. I'm sorry this happened, it's so hard to lose a pet! But unfortunately this sounds like a result of completely inappropriate care - starvation, dehydration and unregulated heating.

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I hope that all of you guys know that I didn't do this on purpose. I honestly thought everything I was doing was right. I wish I would have found this site earlier. The "vet" that I went to made it sound like everything was okay and that I just needed to up my humidity. I would have never hurt my snake on purpose.

I'm sorry for your loss, but I think he died of starvation. I fed my baby girl 1 pinky every 3 days for a month from hatchling. Then I fed her small mice. She was eating medium mice at 7 months old. How often were you feeding her?

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Originally Posted by JTA

I'm sorry for your loss, but I think he died of starvation. I fed my baby girl 1 pinky every 3 days for a month from hatchling. Then I fed her small mice. She was eating medium mice at 7 months old. How often were you feeding her?

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Once a week, that's what the lady at the pet store and vet told me to do. Which I now know, was very wrong on my part.

I'm sorry for your loss. I don't think anyone here is blaming you. You were told wrong things and from here you'll have to do your own research. Luckily, you've found a very good spot to do that!

I would consider switching to a tub for your next snake. I started out with a tank and couldn't get the humidity right so I switched to a tub and it's now perfect. I don't have to mist or do anything special. The water bowl keeps the humidity in a good range. Tubs aren't the best looking but I'm just using them until I can upgrade to PVC.

You can just jump right to a pvc cage for your next snake. From everything I hear they are awesome and it's much easier to keep husbandry up in them.

Take a look around. Keep posting. Everyone has to start somewhere :)

I'm sorry about your loss. As far as information on doing things wrong I'm not a expert on it. But I can tell you that cool side is fine. But hot spot to my knowledge I have mine in the low 90's

I have hatchlings that came out of the egg at 50 grams and I don't feed smaller then a hopper. So it's safe to say that you could feed a ball python at least that big. Not so big for a 30-40gram as said above. But I don't believe a 7 month old should be eating pinkies mice.

I hope this does get you down. I feel like you absolutely love snakes and all. So don't beat yourself up. Just keep asking questions and learning. We are heat to help.


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Let's put this behind us, we all make mistakes. Some bigger than others, but we aren't perfect.

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Originally Posted by JTA

I'm sorry for your loss, but I think he died of starvation. I fed my baby girl 1 pinky every 3 days for a month from hatchling. Then I fed her small mice. She was eating medium mice at 7 months old. How often were you feeding her?

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That's not quite right either. A hatchling can start off on rat fuzzies or mouse hoppers right away and move up to rat pups or large mice in a couple of months. Mouse pinkies are too small at any age. It's also not a great idea to feed more often than every 5-7 days. They digest very slowly, so it's beneficial for their systems to have some time to rest between meals.

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I'm sorry about your loss. As far as information on doing things wrong I'm not a expert on it. But I can tell you that cool side is fine. But hot spot to my knowledge I have mine in the low 90's

I have hatchlings that came out of the egg at 50 grams and I don't feed smaller then a hopper. So it's safe to say that you could feed a ball python at least that big. Not so big for a 30-40gram as said above. But I don't believe a 7 month old should be eating pinkies mice.

I hope this does get you down. I feel like you absolutely love snakes and all. So don't beat yourself up. Just keep asking questions and learning. We are heat to help.


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Thanks. But I bought him from the pet store so I don't know how old he was, I had only had him for 7 months. He weighted 70 grams. Not sure how terrible that is. But thanks. I'll defiantly do more research.

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Originally Posted by JadeSisson

Thanks. But I bought him from the pet store so I don't know how old he was, I had only had him for 7 months. He weighted 70 grams. Not sure how terrible that is. But thanks. I'll defiantly do more research.

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At seven months a ball python should be somewhere between 300-500 grams.

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Originally Posted by JadeSisson

Thanks. But I bought him from the pet store so I don't know how old he was, I had only had him for 7 months. He weighted 70 grams. Not sure how terrible that is. But thanks. I'll defiantly do more research.

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I feel like something else had to be at play. 7 months and only 70 grams just doesn't feel right. I'm sure nothing you did. Hmmm again we are hear to answer and support you at this time.


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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I feel like something else had to be at play. 7 months and only 70 grams just doesn't feel right. I'm sure nothing you did. Hmmm again we are hear to answer and support you at this time.


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He was completely fine until 3 weeks ago. He was very active and what not. He had only one spot that was red at the end of tail, and then it slowly moved up. It was only on one side. And then like I said, in one spot his scale was completely gone and you could see his flesh I guess? It was just a white spot.

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Originally Posted by JadeSisson

He was completely fine until 3 weeks ago. He was very active and what not. He had only one spot that was red at the end of tail, and then it slowly moved up. It was only on one side. And then like I said, in one spot his scale was completely gone and you could see his flesh I guess? It was just a white spot.

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I'm sorry for your loss. :( I'm not sure if someone had already mentioned this, but without a thermostat, it sounds like he might have been burned by the unregulated UTH.

This picture is a severe burn from UTH without a thermostat, but a burn causes scales to fall off: http://s816.photobucket.com/user/lad...urned.jpg.html

As someone said, this forum is the perfect place to start research and learning about their care. Pet stores and even vets who don't have experience with reptiles are notorious for providing incorrect information that can even cause the death of the snake, like in this case...

A useful fact is that ball pythons should be eating prey that is around (just a little bit smaller) the width of the thickest part of their own body. Hatchling ball pythons right out of the egg are often fed mice hoppers, which are larger than pinkies.

Here's the ball python caresheet on the forum... http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

And an underweight ball python will have a prominent spine, like a visible line down their back, and their skin will seem to be "falling" down around the spine. A health weight ball python's body shape is thick and round, and their body should be much thicker than their head width.

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I feel like something else had to be at play. 7 months and only 70 grams just doesn't feel right. I'm sure nothing you did. Hmmm again we are hear to answer and support you at this time.


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Mouse pinkies weigh 2-3 grams. If being fed once a week, that's only about 60-90 grams of food over 7 months, so that weight makes sense.

I'm very sorry for your loss. I don't know nearly as much about snakes as most of the others here - but my two '15 balls are each eating an adult mouse a week. Occasionally I'll give the boy a mouse hopper and two rat pinkies, just for variety, since he'll take f/t.

Sometimes, too, there's just something wrong with a snake. My female kingsnake is still about 33g, while the male, the same age, same breeder, delivered at the same time, is over 100g now. She eats great on large mouse pinkies for weeks - then spontaneously regurgitates. No changes in her environment or feeding routine, exactly same conditions as the male. She doesn't keep anything with fur on it down at all. The vet's prognosis is that there's something wrong with her digestive tract. She's thin, but her spine doesn't show, and she seems happy enough, so I just try to keep a close eye on her.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I'm sorry for your loss. :( I'm not sure if someone had already mentioned this, but without a thermostat, it sounds like he might have been burned by the unregulated UTH.

This picture is a severe burn from UTH without a thermostat, but a burn causes scales to fall off: http://s816.photobucket.com/user/lad...urned.jpg.html

As someone said, this forum is the perfect place to start research and learning about their care. Pet stores and even vets who don't have experience with reptiles are notorious for providing incorrect information that can even cause the death of the snake, like in this case...

A useful fact is that ball pythons should be eating prey that is around (just a little bit smaller) the width of the thickest part of their own body. Hatchling ball pythons right out of the egg are often fed mice hoppers, which are larger than pinkies.

Here's the ball python caresheet on the forum... http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

And an underweight ball python will have a prominent spine, like a visible line down their back, and their skin will seem to be "falling" down around the spine. A health weight ball python's body shape is thick and round, and their body should be much thicker than their head width.

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It didn't look anything like that. It was on his side, and just a little dot. Thanks for everyone's help. I wasn't sure what size, I was really scared they I would give him something that would have been too big for him.

It's unfortunately that you got bad information all along the way, but now that you're here, you can find out all the things that will make for a great experience next time.

Tanks are notoriously hard to get the temps/humidity right. If you really want a tank, there's a sticky on here about how to do it right so it'll work for your snake.

The temps on the cool side were not okay, as 70F is much too low, especially for a hatchling who will be more sensitive to stressers.

These will be my best guesses made on your information and my past experiences.
Because your hatchling sized snake only got a mouse pinkie, it probably used up all the few calories trying to digest with the low temps on the cool end. This is why the snake did not grow and thus did not need to shed. The roaming was likely due to hunger and seeking for a good temp. I would also guess that the vet saw a snake with wrinkles and odd scale patches and though it was dehydrated instead of that it was underweight and dehydrated. If the vet is not experienced with snakes, especially pythons, he might have no idea what a healthy snake should look like, much less the appropriate weight for a 7 month old snake or what size prey item he should have had.

But the good news is that you can now adjust your enclosure or change to a tub setup. You can make sure that when you do get a new snake, you get the right size prey item and keep it in the right temps and humidity. So it'll go well!

We were all new at this once. It was just your turn to be new. It's a pity that you got such bad info.

Thanks to everyone who took time out of their day to give me advice and help me understand everything better. I was really scared to come on here, but very glad I did. I think I'll do more research and purchase a pvc cage and try again in a few months or so.