Three snakes in one enclosure any thoughts?

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Thoughts? Yes. Simply don't do it.

It's much too stressful for them.

First, ball pythons are not social animals and are stressed when put together. Even breeding pairs are not kept together long.

Second, the way that tank is set up is not even adequate for a single ball python. It's very open and with only one hide, this will only add to an already stressful situation. A single snake needs at the minimum 2 hides, a water bowl that they can fit in if they choose (but not so deep that they have to float/swim) and things to clutter all the open space.

If kept in this set up, they will start to get sick, stop eating, etc

Like crowfingers said, that tank is not set up right for one snake. You need to do some research and fast dude

My 2 cents-I have had many a pair of different snakes housed together with no ill effects what-so-ever. Never had issues with animals not eating, being aggressive, or anything like that. You'll get more "do not do it" than "go for it", but Im just adding from past experiences.

You need a way better enclosure and keeping three snakes in one cage is pretty much asking for issues.

There's just no good reason to keep them together and several good reasons not to.

Yeah... I can see your BP being very stressed out and insecure in that enclosure. Also, as others have stated, BP's are solitary animals.
This is Noodles enclosure.
She has three hides, an appropriately sizes water dish, and lots of cover.



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Here's the scoop from my point of view.

Your set up needs some fine tuning.

Other than that, you're doing fine.

If you ask 6 reptile keeps for opinions you will get 7, 4 of which will condemn you no matter what you're doing.

Some, like me, have kept groups together for years. They eat, breed, come out to play, go to parties (I do presentations for kids with them) and seem to be quite happy.

If it works for you, keep doing it. If it doesn't work, figure out what went wrong and correct the mistake.

Single IS easier, especially if you're new to snake keeping.

Multiples in a single enclosure is a choice, not a sin, no matter how preachy some folks get.

I am super new to this. But everything I have read and researched before I got my snake very clearly pointed me away from keeping snakes together in the same cage. Remember, you have to keep that snakes best interest at heart as it cant.

Not trying to gang up on you, but like the others have said, that enclosure is not ready to house even one royal. Additionally, if you have the best interests of your snakes in mind, you'd put them in separate, suitable enclosures. Look at them in the wild, you would not see them together for longer than required when breeding.

If I were you, sort three separate enclosures out for them, and get everything as idealistically perfect for each one of them.

Proper husbandry costs money.
I suspect that saving money is the usual motive for housing multiple snakes together.

You can find multiple snake set-ups maintained by experienced keepers, but I never see it with BP's, at least not in the case of keepers I follow on YouTube.

But that is no excuse for going cheap on a single enclosure to throw three snakes in there.

The main point is that the enclosure that the OP has shown isn't even fit for one snake.

Can it be done? Yes however usually when people have to ask that means they do not have the experience to do so.

Communal housing is cheaper but not easier and if you do not have the experience it can be a nightmare.

And additionally, if one snake gets an RI, they're all gonna get RI's more than likely.

Then you probably have no place to quarantine/separate them all. Then what?

Same thing with mites, and other issues.

A little article that is worth the read, considering the question. http://squamishserpents.ca/care-info...-one-enclosure

Aside from that, I would like to point out that many MANY people have posted in favor of co-habbing...right up until something goes wrong and one of their snakes rapes, injures, or infects the other. When it comes right down to it, co-habbing works fine right up until it doesn't. Once it doesn't, you've already passed the point of keeping your snakes safe - the damage is done. Why risk it when providing a safe solution is so simple?

If money is an issue, setting up three separate tubs would be cheaper than setting up a tank. For around 20$, you could set up what would essentially be a single shelf rack to house your 3 snakes separately, with heat tape.

If money was a problem initially, or you weren't on a stable financial income, why get a snake, or any pet in the first place?

I'm going out there on a limb here, I really don't have the experience to be able to comment on this with any gusto, however, with that said, there is some common sense to be used here, that and the fact that your main interest should be the Animal, an animal that you have given a commitment to look after properly, what, in my opinion, nobody should be doing, is to be looking after any animal to the best of your financial situation. If that's the case, don't do it.

Save, save until you can give that animal a life in captivity that it deserves, if that means waiting 6 months, so be it. if that means never doing it. So be it.

Its a living breathing animal and should be treated as such in the first instance. It should not be treated in the first instance as a commodity, or a money making machine, or anything else along those lines.

I don't mean to offend anyone and I do not mean to speak out of line. If I have then I sincerely apologize. What I don't apologize for is sharing my personal views.

I have looked over eveyones comments and I don't see any stress for any of my ball pythons they all go in the single hide together and they all love to come out and play daily so I believe that what I am doing is fine I find that being in a tub without being picked up and No social interaction daily are the aggresive ones not to say that it can cause some stress but with me they love to play they all eat like champs and nothing to say they are stressed at all thanks everyone for the feedback

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So be it, you are the keeper of your snakes.

However, are you going to add more hides, and improve their living quarters as a whole?

I was thinking of putting plants and things for them to hide and crawl on and I do have a big water dish for them

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When they are all jammed in the one hide together they are not cuddling or hugging, they are competing for the best spot in the enclosure, which is under the one hide you have. Ball pythons don't like to be out and about, in the wild they spend most of their time under ground in termite mounds.

As was pointed out, if money is the problem you can set up a three-tub rack for a lower cost than getting two more tanks + the accessories required for them.

Have you ever heard of the general rule that a snake (in an enclosure like that), should have two hides; one for the hot and one for the cold end?

It's going to be difficult when they get bigger and they are wanting a place to hide; by themselves.

Ball pythons don't chase their prey, they will wait it out in their hide, three ball pythons aren't going to wait in the same spot to ambush prey, are they?

Also, are you measuring the temperature and humidity - and is that thing even on a thermostat?

The humidity and temp is on the dot no problems with that and I take them out when I feed them the go into a large box where I feed them that's how they know it's feeding time and I do it on a schedule.

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Going to have to agree with what has already been stated, it's best to house them each seperately to avoid any issues down the road.

My plan is not to keep them in there till when they are adult I want to get a rack system up for all my snakes and just keep my very first snake in the tank

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Sincere question cj2007: if you don't care, why did you even ask?

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Originally Posted by cj2007

I have looked over eveyones comments and I don't see any stress for any of my ball pythons they all go in the single hide together and they all love to come out and play daily so I believe that what I am doing is fine I find that being in a tub without being picked up and No social interaction daily are the aggresive ones not to say that it can cause some stress but with me they love to play they all eat like champs and nothing to say they are stressed at all thanks everyone for the feedback

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You obviously DID Not 'look over everyone's comments' because you would've read

"2) Snakes are solitary animals.* They don’t live, eat, sleep, or hunt in groups. When you see two snakes curled up in the same hide, they are not “cuddling because they like each other,” they are actually competing for the best spot in the enclosure. This constant state of competition causes a great deal of stress in your snake."

First of all I'm confused as of why you would join this site or ask for advice if you clearly don't care what knowledge the people who are veterans in the hobby have to offer you. What can be inferred is that you bought your snakes on impulse, and were non concerned enough with the well being of the animals to do any real research. I don't care how healthy you think your animals are or how spot on you think your husbandry is, you simply need certain things for the ball pythons to continue to thrive.

Your basic husbandry just isn't met to begin with, ONE snake needs two hides, a bowl it can soak in should the mood strike, and as little open space as possible to feel secure. Those needs have not been met from the picture you posted. On top of all of that constant heat and humidity monitoring is a MUST to keep them healthy.

Ball pythons (along with most snake species) just are not social in any way, and do not, in general, thrive in enclosures with multiple animals. The sad fact is that even if you do not see the signs of stress now with how you have things set up, they will start to appear. Their huddling together under the hide is not cuddling, it is simply competing for a resource, that a competition that will only get more violent as they age. As far as removing them to a separate enclosure to feed, that is the only smart thing you have done in this situation, assuming you don't feed them all at once.

They tolerate you handling them, because once again, they are not social animals. I understand you wanting to anthropomorphize your pets, but you need to take a metaphorical step back so that you can do what is best for the animals.
The best thing you can do is take the advice you asked for and use it to get your husbandry correct. Add hides and ways to monitor humidity and temperature to the existing tank, and properly set up tubs for the other two snakes.

I sincerely hope you will take the advice you got on this thread, of course if you do not that is your choice. All I want to know if you choose to ignore the advice you have gotten, is why you chose to waste everyone's time.

I said in my previous posts that I am going to get more hiding and a bowl set up but it seems as though all of you are making mountains out of mole hills. I have my opinion and you have yours. As I said in my other posts as well I do not want to keep them all in there I want to move them into a rack stand. But I'm sure you didn't read that part. And believe me I do care about everything for these animals and I wouldn't do anything to harm them. And you are wrong that they are not social my snakes love to be out and chill with me when I get home. And they hate to go back in because they love being held.So just put an end to all things shaming and degrading of a person's way of doing it, I am making changes when I can, to make them a little happier in my snakes home.

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In sorry if you feel attacked, but the point is, they need their own enclosures sooner rather than later. Yes we have read that you want to set up a rack system, but the point is they are together now. I seriously doubt you understand what we mean by the term social. From an animal behavior standpoint animals can be classified by their level of socialness from not at all to highly social. Snakes simply are not social, and that is just the fact. They are, however curious and will explore given the chance. Not wanting to return to their cage after extended periods of handling usually is an indicator that they are not comfortable in that enclosure, in this case probably because of being housed with other snakes.

Nobody said you don't care for your pets, just that your husbandry should be changed sooner rather than later for their own well being.

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Originally Posted by cj2007

I said in my previous posts that I am going to get more hiding and a bowl set up but it seems as though all of you are making mountains out of mole hills. I have my opinion and you have yours. As I said in my other posts as well I do not want to keep them all in there I want to move them into a rack stand. But I'm sure you didn't read that part. And believe me I do care about everything for these animals and I wouldn't do anything to harm them. And you are wrong that they are not social my snakes love to be out and chill with me when I get home. And they hate to go back in because they love being held.So just put an end to all things shaming and degrading of a person's way of doing it, I am making changes when I can, to make them a little happier in my snakes home.

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It's good that you're getting more equipment, but I strongly encourage you not to doubt long standing behavioral facts just because your personal interpretation of your snakes behavior is different. Someone who is new to dogs might assume that if their new dog is staring at them constantly that it's a loving gesture, when in reality unbroken eye contact is a sign of dominance and the owner is nurturing behavior that can literally come back to bite them. The same thing is true in ball pythons; what you see as friendly behavior can actually be a sign of stress that just looks like cute or normal behavior to someone used to something totally different. Ball pythons are snakes. They are not dogs, they are not mammals, they are not people, but we still like to project our emotions and behaviors on them. They don't "cuddle" with each other, they compete for prime spots or use their bodies to pin down rivals. They don't "snuggle" their owners, they seek out warmth and security. Look into these behaviors, read up on articles written by expert keepers, and take a closer look at what your snakes are really telling you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's become annoyingly common for someone to defend poor husbandry and habits by claiming that their snakes enjoy it, even when experienced keepers know those habits to be wildly dangerous.

They're your snakes. Do what you want to do. If what you're doing doesn't work out, then change it!!!!!!! People here can give you ADVICE, but ultimately they are YOUR SNAKES So do as you wish....

Personally I have been keeping a wide variety of snakes for over 30 years. I have kept them separated and I have housed them together, and I have personally found that they do better by themselves. But whatever you decide to do, make sure you keep track of whatever works best for the snakes, and then do that.

You came here and asked what people's opinions were for putting 3 snakes in that bare enclosure.

You got plenty of responses, then you get all defensive because people are not applauding your actions. "I'm going to do..." is not what you asked. You were very specific with a photo.

No one here can make you keep snakes in a better way. No one here can make you listen to advice.

But when you come on and post a question, then argue that your way is just fine and everyone else is wrong, it comes off poorly to those members who take time to bother reading the thread and typing out responses.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

You came here and asked what people's opinions were for putting 3 snakes in that bare enclosure.

You got plenty of responses, then you get all defensive because people are not applauding your actions. "I'm going to do..." is not what you asked. You were very specific with a photo.

No one here can make you keep snakes in a better way. No one here can make you listen to advice.

But when you come on and post a question, then argue that your way is just fine and everyone else is wrong, it comes off poorly to those members who take time to bother reading the thread and typing out responses.

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Very well said

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Originally Posted by cj2007

I said in my previous posts that I am going to get more hiding and a bowl set up but it seems as though all of you are making mountains out of mole hills. I have my opinion and you have yours. As I said in my other posts as well I do not want to keep them all in there I want to move them into a rack stand. But I'm sure you didn't read that part. And believe me I do care about everything for these animals and I wouldn't do anything to harm them. And you are wrong that they are not social my snakes love to be out and chill with me when I get home. And they hate to go back in because they love being held.

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I'm not an expert by any means, but I'd figure as long as you have enough hides it should be fine. But like you said you're moving them into a rack system so even though this isn't optimal (or even if it is bad) it isn't permanent.

But I'm curious, how do you know the snakes love to be out and hate to go back in? My snake was always up for leaving his tank, but once in a tub/rack he doesn't seem to care about leaving. I wouldn't say he hates me holding him either, but I haven't seen anything to make me think that he was "happy".

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Originally Posted by Daigga

It's good that you're getting more equipment, but I strongly encourage you not to doubt long standing behavioral facts just because your personal interpretation of your snakes behavior is different. Someone who is new to dogs might assume that if their new dog is staring at them constantly that it's a loving gesture, when in reality unbroken eye contact is a sign of dominance and the owner is nurturing behavior that can literally come back to bite them. The same thing is true in ball pythons; what you see as friendly behavior can actually be a sign of stress that just looks like cute or normal behavior to someone used to something totally different. Ball pythons are snakes. They are not dogs, they are not mammals, they are not people, but we still like to project our emotions and behaviors on them. They don't "cuddle" with each other, they compete for prime spots or use their bodies to pin down rivals. They don't "snuggle" their owners, they seek out warmth and security. Look into these behaviors, read up on articles written by expert keepers, and take a closer look at what your snakes are really telling you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's become annoyingly common for someone to defend poor husbandry and habits by claiming that their snakes enjoy it, even when experienced keepers know those habits to be wildly dangerous.

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^ this.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

You came here and asked what people's opinions were for putting 3 snakes in that bare enclosure.

You got plenty of responses, then you get all defensive because people are not applauding your actions. "I'm going to do..." is not what you asked. You were very specific with a photo.

No one here can make you keep snakes in a better way. No one here can make you listen to advice.

But when you come on and post a question, then argue that your way is just fine and everyone else is wrong, it comes off poorly to those members who take time to bother reading the thread and typing out responses.

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:clap:

and i just read the whole thread. here's a few observations/questions. i'll respond to the pix u posted.

http://i.imgur.com/EA125xB.png

you could also block out he back and sides of the tank with paper, get the lamp on a dimmer, etc. etc.

i hope u step up your husbandry soon. your pets deserve comfort.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

You came here and asked what people's opinions were for putting 3 snakes in that bare enclosure.

You got plenty of responses, then you get all defensive because people are not applauding your actions. "I'm going to do..." is not what you asked. You were very specific with a photo.

No one here can make you keep snakes in a better way. No one here can make you listen to advice.

But when you come on and post a question, then argue that your way is just fine and everyone else is wrong, it comes off poorly to those members who take time to bother reading the thread and typing out responses.

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I applaud you! :clap:

I have read this whole thread and to the OP Cj your whole stand is mind-blogging to me.

1. First and foremost the title of your thread is a question. By asking a question you are giving people an opportunity to answer that question, whether you agree or not. Then you get defensive on the answers that you did not want to hear. IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO READ AND HEAR ALL ANSWERS you should not post a question. Your thread should have been entitled...."I keep 3 snakes in one enclosure and here is why."

2. Then you say everything is fine with your enclosure (when it clearly isn't) and a couple posts later you are saying your buying new hides etc to modify your "perfectly fine enclosure".

3. Then the craziest thing of all is you some how know that your snakes love to chill with you?! YOU need to understand THESE ARE ANIMALS....UNTIL THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AND TELL YOU THEY ACTUALLY ENJOY YOU HOLDING THEM AND CHILLING WITH THEM.....do not assume this. This is how you get yourself on ANIMAL PLANET's FATAL ATTRACTIONS because someone decided that their ANACONDA enjoyed sleeping with them and wound up dead.

I have been on this site for a short amount of time, but I have been keeping animals my whole life and the people of this site are the most helpful and genuine I have come across. They truly care about the well being of the animals they keep and helping people out.

SO PLEASE STOP with these threads because it turns veterans away from giving good/solid advice. I for one would like them to continue giving out vital information.

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Originally Posted by Mstuppiello921

I have read this whole thread and to the OP Cj your whole stand is mind-blogging to me.

1. First and foremost the title of your thread is a question. By asking a question you are giving people an opportunity to answer that question, whether you agree or not. Then you get defensive on the answers that you did not want to hear. IF YOU ARE NOT READY TO READ AND HEAR ALL ANSWERS you should not post a question. Your thread should have been entitled...."I keep 3 snakes in one enclosure and here is why."

2. Then you say everything is fine with your enclosure (when it clearly isn't) and a couple posts later you are saying your buying new hides etc to modify your "perfectly fine enclosure".

3. Then the craziest thing of all is you some how know that your snakes love to chill with you?! YOU need to understand THESE ARE ANIMALS....UNTIL THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AND TELL YOU THEY ACTUALLY ENJOY YOU HOLDING THEM AND CHILLING WITH THEM.....do not assume this. This is how you get yourself on ANIMAL PLANET's FATAL ATTRACTIONS because someone decided that their ANACONDA enjoyed sleeping with them and wound up dead.

I have been on this site for a short amount of time, but I have been keeping animals my whole life and the people of this site are the most helpful and genuine I have come across. They truly care about the well being of the animals they keep and helping people out.

SO PLEASE STOP with these threads because it turns veterans away from giving good/solid advice. I for one would like them to continue giving out vital information.

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This is so well said! I too am not a veteran of the sight but I have kept animals my whole life, spent summers working with exotics, and I study zoology and environmental biology in college. I am one of the people who love giving advice when I can, but I am frustrated when people act as if they are being attacked when it is not exactly what they want to hear.

I feel like if you don't want to hear the answer to the question, then you should refrain from asking it. If however, you are ready to hear the answer you asked for, then by all means, ask away. When someone throws a fit because they weren't ready to hear an answer they just make themselves look childish, and make everyone weary of giving advice in the future.

Cj2007,

Here’s the bottom line IMO.

It’s not good to keep naturally solitary animals in groups, the reasons for this have been addressed in this thread.

You can get a couple 28 qt tubs at office depot for about $10 each, go get them until you can set up the racks.

Whether you need supplemental heating or not depends on the ambient temps where the snakes reside. Contrary to popular opinion, temperature gradients with hides in each temp zone are not necessary if you can provide an ambient temp in the 80s. I’ve kept BPs for 22 years, all have had no temp gradient with a single hide. I’ve never had a single health issue. Yes, I still have 2.0 22 year olds that have not been ill for a single day in their lives. Winter time temps regularly fall into the 70s. I am not criticizing the heat gradient/multi hide husbandry, there’s nothing wrong with it, but it is not absolutely necessary as many on this forum believe. What is necessary is that the snake’s enclosure has temps/humidity within an acceptable range and an appropriately sized hide. Do your snakes a favor, separate them.