Extreme newbie wanna-be here....

First and foremost, if this is posted in the wrong location, I sincerely apologize...

Okay, so I've been reading over threads on this site the past couple of days and today I registered so I could finally break the ice and maybe get some advice/suggestions/recommendations from those of you who know about snakes. I was long set on the idea I wanted a bearded dragon and one thing lead to another and before I knew it, I was reading articles about "why ball pythons are better than bearded dragons". To each their own, I know different strokes for different folks, but the more I read, the more I think a bp and I would get along better than a dragon and I.

I guess first I should say I do not own any snakes, or reptiles for that matter and never have. I have a dog and a cat, a wife, a 7yr old son, and I grow bonsai trees (so I understand humidity ;-) ). lol.

So, I've got the idea in my head that I believe I want a ball python. Keep in mind, I was afraid of snakes growing up, and have never had a lot of interaction with them, aside from holding a few at a pet store a few times in my life. I don't have a phobia of them, and don't mind them when I see them first, but if I catch one on my boot while hunting, you'll likely see me move quickly at first.

Why do I want a snake? Well... They are beautiful for one. I know I'm not going to die from a bite, that helps a little... and I have always been intrigued and mesmerized by them. This breed seems to be pretty docile and the fact that it won't require me adding on to my house to make it a home is another good point.

I've been reading a lot of "care guides" and recommendations for enclosures, and pricing all of the required setup costs. It seems that is the biggest expense aside from some rare or unforeseeable vet costs. Am I accurate with that assumption?

So, being that I am completely 100% new, I have a few questions that I have yet to find answers to... here is where I would greatly appreciate the advice of veteran BP owners or others that are knowledgeable on the topics.

1. Enclosure - Half of what I read says aquarium type is okay if you cover the top to keep humidity in, others say PVC is the way to go. Is one really superior?
2. I only have a few places locally that sell snakes. Petco, and a little place that doesn't keep the cages of their stock very clean, so I don't feel the snakes are very well cared for. I have seen much prettier and cheaper snakes online at breeder's websites. Do these snakes handle the shipping process okay, or should I stick with something local? There is a nearby reptile expo coming up this weekend that I hope to check out... maybe I'll luck out there.
3. Cost - I can't say that I have a set amount of money to spend, but at the same time, I don't want to spend $700 if I could have gotten something just as practical for $300, in terms of an enclosure/accessories/supplies. PVCCages seem to be pretty nice... like their T8, I believe it was, but it's only 12" high... does that make it hard to access the snake or clean?
4. I saw a bit of conflicting facts on light requirements for the BP's. Some say if the heat is sufficient, no extra light is needed unless you want it for display purposes. I like the LED's to light up the cage. Is additional UV lighting required BP's?
5. Substrait - It looks like a lot of people just use paper... like from a big roll of butcher's paper or brown craft paper that you can buy by the roll. Is that really all you need in the bottom of the cage or is something like reptile cage carpet better?


I know that is a lot of questions, and if anyone can help with any of them, the wiser I will be. I'm old enough to know that I don't know anything, so any knowledge is welcome. :)

Just in case you want to know, I think the piebald's and Mojave's are gorgeous. :)

Again, thank you,
Jason

I would personally go to the expo and talk to bearded dragon and ball python breeders alike to get there advice on your situation. Plus, it would be good for you to get the opportunity to handle a couple specimens of each species. As far as the enclosure goes, it really depends on personal preference, I use glass set ups for both of my snakes, but I also live on Southern California where it's fairly easy to keep my humidity where it needs to be with minimal effort, that being said, I do prefer the PVC enclosures, but they have not been in my price range. As the money goes, if you purchase from a breeder at the expo (the way I would suggest for you), you can keep total cost down fairly easily. When I bought my baby in August at the super show, I think I spent a total of $80 on her, the enclosure, a hide and a bowl (I already had a temporary heat lamp at home and bedding as well), then spent a little bit more getting another hide and some decor the next day to make her more secure, you should be able to keep your set up in your price range fairly easy. Substrate is again, a personal preference as long as you choose one that is safe for your snake (I personally use coconut fiber). As far as light goes, you don't really need it for bps, just a way to regulate the heat, my snakes just have the light in my room from my lamp and the window.
I think that if you go and talk to the vendors and breeders at the expo, you should have more luck answering questions and getting a feel for everything than you would at Petco or the store with the unclean enclosures you mentioned. This however, is just my opinion, and I'm sure you will get much more helpful advice from more experienced keepers here soon.

Excellent, thank you.

First off, Hiya and welcome to the forums. I will answer just a few questions since I am by no means an expert.

Question:

1. Er...can't really comment on this since I use tubs. But if I was to go with this, I'd go with the PVC caging. Only because my snake does not like being exposed on all sides and a PVC cage already has three sides blocked out. I hear PVC cages are lighter than glass aquariums so that's a plus for me too.

2. My BP Alduin was shipped to me using FedEx overnight shipping. He was totally fine but again, this was just my own personal experience. The breeder I got him from was recommended and I did a fair amount of digging and asking a ton of questions. My advise about this is just to research research research the breeder. Check BOI threads on fauna, Facebook, inquire here, etc. Now a reptile expo/show is great way to get up close with possible animals and their breeders. You can examine the animal right then and there before making your desicion.

4. From what I understand, BPs do not need any additional UV lighting.

5. The subrate I use is newspaper. Its free for me and simple to clean. This is just my preference but many other people go for shredded aspen or aspen chips. Better for spot cleaning.

I know others will chime in and hopefully give you more answers. Hope mine helped a little! 😄

Sent from my SGH-T399N using Tapatalk

Hi and welcome.

1. I use tubs but I am planning on upgrading to PVC come January. I love the look of PVC and it will be easy for me to keep husbandry up for my three snakes. I tried using tanks and just couldn't get the humidity right, even using all the tips and tricks suggested here.

2. As long as the breeder is experienced with shipping, it's no big deal at all. I had my brazilian rainbow boa shipped to me and she handled it perfectly.

3. I don't have a PVC cage but I've read here that 12" can be kind of hard when it comes to cleaning. I would just put the cage up higher, maybe, so you have better access?

4. My bp's have proper heat but I don't give them extra lighting and they do perfectly fine.

5. I use paper towel and swear buy it. I buy the thick Bounty rolls. It's super absorbent and cheap, and it serves as an extra hide! I always find my snakes hiding beneath the paper towel since it's light enough that they can squirm under it. They love it! I wouldn't do a reptile carpet. With the amount that bp's mess up their enclosure, it would be a huge pain. You'd have to have backups so you can swap them out and clean the dirty one.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I've been reading a lot of "care guides" and recommendations for enclosures, and pricing all of the required setup costs. It seems that is the biggest expense aside from some rare or unforeseeable vet costs. Am I accurate with that assumption?

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depends, my animals cost way more than my housing lol. I'll put it this way, you could make a perfectly acceptable enclosure for a hatchling for under 50 bucks. thermostat being 35 of that. Price goes up from there.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

1. Enclosure - Half of what I read says aquarium type is okay if you cover the top to keep humidity in, others say PVC is the way to go. Is one really superior?

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PVC is superior, however you can get glass tanks to work. I know someone posted a guide for glass tanks but I can;t seem to find it right now, perhaps someone else could post a link.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

2. I only have a few places locally that sell snakes. Petco, and a little place that doesn't keep the cages of their stock very clean, so I don't feel the snakes are very well cared for. I have seen much prettier and cheaper snakes online at breeder's websites. Do these snakes handle the shipping process okay, or should I stick with something local? There is a nearby reptile expo coming up this weekend that I hope to check out... maybe I'll luck out there.

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expo would be your best bet, you can see your animal before you buy it, talk to the breeder who produced it and with you being new you can ask a lot of questions. However if nothing appeals to you there, snakes ship over night just fine and there are ton of reputable breeders to buy from.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

3. Cost - I can't say that I have a set amount of money to spend, but at the same time, I don't want to spend $700 if I could have gotten something just as practical for $300, in terms of an enclosure/accessories/supplies. PVCCages seem to be pretty nice... like their T8, I believe it was, but it's only 12" high... does that make it hard to access the snake or clean?

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As they age they will go through a few different size enclosures. I start mine in 6 qt tubs, some people move them to a 15qt but I jump straight to 28qt, then if they get huge, ill move them to a 41qt. Those will give you an idea of the floor space they require at different ages. Tubs are by far the cheapest route to go, but don't look all that aesthetically pleasing. My suggestion would be to get a 6 qt tub to start them in, move them to a 15qt, and once they outgrow that, then start looking at what you want for their adult enclosure, T8 size would be great for an adult and 12 inches high isn't that bad with the cage only being 24 deep, thats within most peoples reach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

4. I saw a bit of conflicting facts on light requirements for the BP's. Some say if the heat is sufficient, no extra light is needed unless you want it for display purposes. I like the LED's to light up the cage. Is additional UV lighting required BP's?

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no lighting requirements at all. if you want to use it for display, just make sure you turn them off at night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

5. Substrait - It looks like a lot of people just use paper... like from a big roll of butcher's paper or brown craft paper that you can buy by the roll. Is that really all you need in the bottom of the cage or is something like reptile cage carpet better?

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disposable is much easier for most people, paper or one of the many bedding options. I use cypress. holds humidity, smells good, and i can spot clean it (just pull the clump of soiled bedding), take out the dirty, put clean in. find the bedding that suits your needs. reptile carpet can be cleaned and reused... but it does start to get pretty nasty. I wouldn't suggest it.

Welcome...

1-5 seems like you have a good understanding of what you need, just look into PETCO first to see if they have any of the snakes your interested in FIRST, I got my Lemon Blast for $53 and some change from a pet store, look there first then if they don't have what your looking for try the expos and breeders online...

awesome guys, and thank you very much. I've been sitting here at the keyboard hoping to get some replies. I guess I'm a little excited. LOL. I will definitely look more into the tub enclosures for now, at least for starters. I guess I didn't think of them as being "escape proof", but I guess if you secure it, it could be. Hopefully I'll get to the expo this weekend and get to get up close and personal with some snakes and talk to some people in person. That goes a long way, I know. I may stop by Petco and see what they have, but I've felt their pet stuff is usually overpriced and where I'm located, I'm getting advice from a college student that may or may not still be hungover from the night before and is probably telling me what he/she read on a box somewhere. I'm sure some of them know their stuff.... but I'd feel better hearing it from a breeder or owner of snakes. I was at the pet store today (the dirty one) and they had two ball pythons, one was over 3' and the other I'd guess was between 2'-3'. The smaller one was $160 and the larger was $199. They didn't look to be anything special, but maybe they were. As I said before, I don't trust that place too much either. lol.

Back to researching... thanks again! I'll keep you posted, I'm sure!

Ok, I'm just going to come right out with it:

I LOVE bonsai!!!

Something about bonsai and snakes - they go together...I don't know why, or how, but they just do.
Huge Walter Pall fan, and also Graham Potter fan.

I don't have a BP, I have kingsnakes. I like glass tanks. You can plant a tank. you can cover the sides, or fill them with extra hides and plenty of cover. My guys like big sheets of bark. Glass tanks will stay as humid as you want if you cover most of the top. I use paper towel substrate in mine, and add tiny pots of plants, and bowls of moss. Currently, I don't have supplemental lighting, so I need plants I can switch out. Next viv will be properly planted, and lit. (Light is more for the plants.)

Shipping is how the stores get many of their snakes. A reputable breeder is always better. Just be sure you are at home to receive your animal when delivered.

Welcome!:)

I would avoid petco or pet smart. There's many online sources for finding snakes. You also get more for your money typically by going with a breeder. If you think you might want to breed in the future, start with a female. Paper towel works great for me. I use a bin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I've been reading a lot of "care guides" and recommendations for enclosures, and pricing all of the required setup costs. It seems that is the biggest expense aside from some rare or unforeseeable vet costs. Am I accurate with that assumption? Correctamundo, if including the price of the snake in your initial setup costs.

So, being that I am completely 100% new, I have a few questions that I have yet to find answers to... here is where I would greatly appreciate the advice of veteran BP owners or others that are knowledgeable on the topics.

1. Enclosure - Half of what I read says aquarium type is okay if you cover the top to keep humidity in, others say PVC is the way to go. Is one really superior? Aquariums are fine. Sure, there are better options these days - and they're gradually pushing aquariums to the side - but that doesn't negate the fact that glass sided enclosures have been, and are still being, used to successfully keep reptiles.

2. I only have a few places locally that sell snakes. Petco, and a little place that doesn't keep the cages of their stock very clean, so I don't feel the snakes are very well cared for. I have seen much prettier and cheaper snakes online at breeder's websites. Do these snakes handle the shipping process okay, or should I stick with something local? There is a nearby reptile expo coming up this weekend that I hope to check out... maybe I'll luck out there. Snakes handle shipping just fine if packaged right and sent priority overnight.

3. Cost - I can't say that I have a set amount of money to spend, but at the same time, I don't want to spend $700 if I could have gotten something just as practical for $300, in terms of an enclosure/accessories/supplies. PVCCages seem to be pretty nice... like their T8, I believe it was, but it's only 12" high... does that make it hard to access the snake or clean? What's often overlooked is a quality thermostat, which you NEED to properly regulate your heat source. This is probably the single most expensive setup item but you only need one. There are plenty of corners you can cut to save money, the thermostat should not be one of them. Expect to pay somewhere in the $100-200 range for a top quality unit.

4. I saw a bit of conflicting facts on light requirements for the BP's. Some say if the heat is sufficient, no extra light is needed unless you want it for display purposes. I like the LED's to light up the cage. Is additional UV lighting required BP's? Not really needed for ball pythons as they don't often see the light of day, given the choice, in nature or captivity. Some genus, especially the more active diurnal types, seem to benefit from exposure to UVB lighting; Thamnophis and Opheodrys come to mind.

5. Substrait - It looks like a lot of people just use paper... like from a big roll of butcher's paper or brown craft paper that you can buy by the roll. Is that really all you need in the bottom of the cage or is something like reptile cage carpet better? Paper is good because it allows you to see waste immediately. Cleaning is as easy as removing the paper, wiping down the enclosure, putting a fresh sheet down. Bear in mind that while heat and humidity are good, mold and bacteria are bad. You need to find a substrate that works best for you, that you can keep clean, while still providing the right parameters for your pet. I'd steer clear of reptile carpet. While it can be used successfully, it takes a lot more cleaning/upkeep than pretty much any other substrate.


I know that is a lot of questions, and if anyone can help with any of them, the wiser I will be. I'm old enough to know that I don't know anything, so any knowledge is welcome. :)

Just in case you want to know, I think the piebald's and Mojave's are gorgeous. :) Agreed!

Again, thank you,
Jason

My pleasure, Jason, and welcome to the wonderful world of reptiles. Thanks for doing your research first too! Your future herp has everything to gain from this important, and often overlooked, part of responsible pet ownership!

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

awesome guys, and thank you very much. I've been sitting here at the keyboard hoping to get some replies. I guess I'm a little excited. LOL. I will definitely look more into the tub enclosures for now, at least for starters. I guess I didn't think of them as being "escape proof", but I guess if you secure it, it could be. Hopefully I'll get to the expo this weekend and get to get up close and personal with some snakes and talk to some people in person. That goes a long way, I know. I may stop by Petco and see what they have, but I've felt their pet stuff is usually overpriced and where I'm located, I'm getting advice from a college student that may or may not still be hungover from the night before and is probably telling me what he/she read on a box somewhere. I'm sure some of them know their stuff.... but I'd feel better hearing it from a breeder or owner of snakes. I was at the pet store today (the dirty one) and they had two ball pythons, one was over 3' and the other I'd guess was between 2'-3'. The smaller one was $160 and the larger was $199. They didn't look to be anything special, but maybe they were. As I said before, I don't trust that place too much either. lol.

Back to researching... thanks again! I'll keep you posted, I'm sure!

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I use the tubs with the latching handles and for extra security, I use a luggage strap from the dollar store and clip it around the middle. It keeps everything escape proof!

Welcome!!! I will be keeping an eye out for what morph you end up getting (secretly i hope you get a pied ;))

Welcome.
Most everyone hit it out of the park.
I personally would go check out the expo (pricing will always be better).
Don't forget IF you do decide on a morph and are checking out sites from breeders, there is also shipping to add on (usually about $50).
Where exactly in the "southwest" are you? You might have breeders closer than you think. ;)

First thing will be finding something that catches your eye and go from there.

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Originally Posted by ECechoHO

1-5 seems like you have a good understanding of what you need, just look into PETCO first to see if they have any of the snakes your interested in FIRST, I got my Lemon Blast for $53 and some change from a pet store, look there first then if they don't have what your looking for try the expos and breeders online...

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^^^^^^^^^ this - I also got my snake from Petco. Little Monty Is awesome.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Welcome.
Where exactly in the "southwest" are you? You might have breeders closer than you think. ;)

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That should be southwestern Pennsylvania... not southwestern US. I'm about an hour south of Pittsburgh, very close to West Virginia actually.


Okay, so I strolled up to Petco today. They had some BP's that looked to be healthy and were in the $60-$150 range. None really drew me in like some of the morphs I have seen. I was about to start loading up a cart with a 20long critter cage and some other stuff when I happened to ask a group of guys working there if they had thermostats in stock. Turns out, he is BOA guy and is going to the same expo I was planning on going to tomorrow. He kinda laughed and said, I wouldn't buy anything here... go to the expo and see what you can find. Worst case, you have to come back here or another pet store to pick up an enclosure, but it's likely that I can find something, perhaps even something used there for a lot less. I also spoke to someone from the expo via Facebook and they assured me I can get anything and everything there if I so choose. So now I'll just wait until tomorrow and check things out and see where that takes me.

I did have another question come to mind today... what do you all do in the event power goes out at your house? Do you use a computer UPS system or something, or just try to keep the enclosure warm?

I don't know if they will be attending the same expo, but I recently got my first ball python from American Made Exotics.
I originally sent them an email to see if the available snakes on the site were all that were available, or if they had more that would be at the expo. I got a return email in less that a hour (this was at 10pm). Over the next 5 days I sent them at least 12 emails, all of which were answered nearly immediately. I was interested in three of the snakes, and they offered to bring them to the show so I could see them in person (also meant I didn't have to pay shipping). I did get my snake from them, he has been great, when I got home from the expo, the owner of American Made Exotics had emailed me and apologized that he didn't get to give me all the snakes info since he was busy with other customers. He ended up sending me the records of every meal he ever had plus every weight that had ever been taken while he was with the breeder. Because of this experience, I would highly recommend looking them up, or talking to them if they are at your expo. I know they go to a lot of expos on the east coast.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I did have another question come to mind today... what do you all do in the event power goes out at your house? Do you use a computer UPS system or something, or just try to keep the enclosure warm?

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I too would be interested to hear some answers to this question, it's isn't one I've thought of. I suppose one could use a small generator if it's needed, but I would think the enclosure should be able to hold the heat for a while before that would be needed...

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Originally Posted by gaitedappy

I too would be interested to hear some answers to this question, it's isn't one I've thought of. I suppose one could use a small generator if it's needed, but I would think the enclosure should be able to hold the heat for a while before that would be needed...

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FWIW I used to use a UPS on my Marine Fish tank. Had to use it a couple of times.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I did have another question come to mind today... what do you all do in the event power goes out at your house? Do you use a computer UPS system or something, or just try to keep the enclosure warm?

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Most of the time it isn't an issue, this is another case were pvc is superior also, it won't let the heat out as quickly as glass. but eventually no matter what your enclosure is made out of the enclosure will eventually get to room temp. Most people's houses, a couple days isn't going to hurt the animal. but if the room happens to be really cold for some reason, you can use heat packs (the kind you ship reptiles with, not the kind for an muscle injury) to warm the enclosure back up.