Mojave proven co-dominant!!!

Morph King Reptile just hatched out a leucistic from a mojave x mojave breeding!!! Bah, I was planning on getting a mojave in the next few years, more because I like the looks of mojaves myself. However, I guess that won't be happening for many years to come now!!!

[edit]Whoops, I meant to say codominant in the title!!![/edit]

oh man i guess im goin to have 2 get me some mojaves or fireballs which ever is cheaper!

Mojaves are generally cheaper,but after this,they will probably skyrocket!What is the difference between dominant and co-dominant?

Dominant means the homozygous mutant and the heterozygous mutant are identical (e.g. spiders). However, it's difficult to prove a gene to be for certain dominant, since you might just be getting bad odds. You have to breed a homoygous to several normals and get 100% morph offspring to be certain. To date actually, nobody has proven a homozygous spider.

A co-dominant gene on the other hand is where the heterozygous form and the homozygous form are completely different (like mojave and leucistic).

The pastel gene on the other hand is actually incomplete dominant rather than codominant... which is when the heterozygous form is an intermediate between the normal and the homozygous morph i.e. a pastel is basically just part way between a normal and a super pastel. Although for the purposes of the herp industry, the subtle difference between incomplete dominant and codominant isn't really important and it's easier to just call them all co-dominant since it's shorter.

Now it will be interesting to see what happens when one of these Leucies is bred to a normal. Wonder what it will produce? Or if there's even yet another form from Mojave x Mojave that nobody's hit yet. The future certainly is bright!

K

The future is very unpredictable, i wonder what the next new morphs will be?????

What is their website?

www.morphkingreptiles.com

I think...

"Now it will be interesting to see what happens when one of these Leucies is bred to a normal. Wonder what it will produce?"

I agree. I'm especially interested in seeing what the cross line ones like the lesser X phantom and lesser X mojave produce. Will the two parent lines be easily distinguishable in the offspring? Presumably they shouldn't produce any normals but of course it will be nice to have actual breeding results to back that up.

So what did your female leucistic produce? Someone posted show info that it might have been bred to a spider so I guess that might complicate the results a little. There weren't any normal babies where there? Looking past the spider gene where there only one type of baby or where there two (maybe mom was a cross of different types of hets)? Did any of the babies seem to match with known or suspected het leucistics (fireball, high yellow lemon, lesser, mojave, phantom, butter, or yellow belly)?

Is there any public information on the offspring of Peter Kahl's female leucistic or the "Snoopy" male leucistic? Vin Russo's site indicates his first male leucistc was breeding this year also but I didn't see any results for it posted either. So there should be at least 4 leucistics that have breed so far (Kahl, NERD, Snoopy, Russo) and we don't have results available for any of them.

I think you're forgetting Ralph Davis. www.ralphdavisreptiles.com

He is one of the few breeders I know of that has the blue eyed leucistic.

The pricing on mojaves should not change, white snakes have already been factored into the current price. MKR's white snake was actually less of a surprise and more of a confirmation of what everyone already had thought.

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Originally Posted by KLG

Or if there's even yet another form from Mojave x Mojave that nobody's hit yet.

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One can only hope!

-adam

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So what did your female leucistic produce? Someone posted show info that it might have been bred to a spider so I guess that might complicate the results a little. There weren't any normal babies where there? Looking past the spider gene where there only one type of baby or where there two (maybe mom was a cross of different types of hets)? Did any of the babies seem to match with known or suspected het leucistics (fireball, high yellow lemon, lesser, mojave, phantom, butter, or yellow belly)?

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I am not at liberty to discuss details at this point. :blahblah:

Someday! ;)

K

Schlyne,

I was just listing the four actual adult leucistics that I've heard have been bred one or more times already. I don't think Ralph's oldest leucistics (2003) have produced yet. Hopefully his two 2003 males are breeding now and next summer we'll have some results to ponder. I think he also has the 2003 Eric Davies leucistic from England now but I'm not finding anywhere that lists it's gender so unless it's a male it might not breed this year and we might have to wait for the first breeding results from that line in 2006. I'm sure we will eventually get results from breedings of leucistics from the four lines that have already breed. Of course I will not be in a position to buy any of them to find out for myself anytime soon so what's a guy to do but wait.

Kara,

I understand. And that's what I get for taking so long to write my posts up that I missed your new one.

By the way, the post I saw (on a public forum but I don't remember which one) that mentioned seeing at least some of the babies at a show not only indicated the male was a spider but if I remember right mentioned the word fireball when describing a baby. Not that I'm trying to goad you into spilling the beans to confirm or deny ....

Yes, we have a "fireball" spider. Not the best pic in the world, but a pic nonetheless. Of course, this is one of those "tangents" that projects seem to go on from time to time. ;)

http://newenglandreptile.com/webpics/fireballspider.jpg

K

Very nice!

But you aren't going to confirm or deny that it's mother was the leucistic?

I'll say this much: it's mother wasn't leucistic.

How's that? ;)

K

Very helpful. I got the story wrong from the post about seeing the spider fireball at the show. I can't remember how it was worded so maybe I made the jump to thinking that it was out of the leucistic all by myself.

Of course now I still don’t know how your female leucistic might or might not fit in with other leucistic lines.

I guess time will tell!

K

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The pricing on mojaves should not change, white snakes have already been factored into the current price. MKR's white snake was actually less of a surprise and more of a confirmation of what everyone already had thought.
-adam

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Yes, people suspected it, but it was still yet to be proven. Even if the price doesn't go up, it will be less likely to come down in the years to come.

Personally, I don't even like leucies :P A pastel x mojave is my favourite morph to date, not because it's some outrageous combination but that it's simply a slightly enhanced looking mojave. I would be interested in seeing what a congo jungle x mojave or even a congo x pastel x mojave would look like. That's the project I'd be working on if I could afford it :P

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Originally Posted by hhw

Yes, people suspected it, but it was still yet to be proven. Even if the price doesn't go up, it will be less likely to come down in the years to come.

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After MKR produced the leucy from the lesser breeding over the summer, the mojave price jumped into the 20-25k range based on the fact that they were capable of producing white snakes with yellow stripes and the assumption that mojave X mojave would do the same. No one bought them at that price (relatively speaking). The price then returned to it's previous level and they started selling again.

I think that confirming that mojave X mojave produces white striped leucies helps justify females being priced a little higher than males, but there has yet to be a price jump due to MKR latest accomplishment and there most likely will not be.

Mojave prices will start to slowly come down (even with the white snake being produced) because there have been a ton of them sold at the current price. Maybe as soon as this year, the demand will start to slow and breeders will lower their prices until they find demand at a lower level. The ground swell of people buying this morph because it produces leucies happened this past summer, I don't think that there will be a new rush to buy these animals just because of last weeks hatching. (but hey, I passed on mojaves when the were 3.5k so what do i know :lol: )

You really like the pastel mojave? Have you seen one in person?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You really like the pastel mojave? Have you seen one in person?

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Nope, just the pictures when Renaissance first hatched them out. Have you? Are the pictures not represenative of what they look like in person (for better or worse)?

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Originally Posted by hhw

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You really like the pastel mojave? Have you seen one in person?

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Nope, just the pictures when Renaissance first hatched them out. Have you? Are the pictures not represenative of what they look like in person (for better or worse)?

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Actually, Morph King hatched the first and called it a "pastave" (i'll keep my comments about the name to myself).

The pictures do an pretty good job of representing them, I just would have hoped for more (maybe the super pastel mojave will be better). I think the hypo mojave blows the doors off of the pastel version though. Don't take this the wrong way, I think the pastel mojave is a KILLER snake, I just think that there are more stunning combos to work on with my pastel females.

Just my $.02

-adam

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Actually, Morph King hatched the first and called it a "pastave" (i'll keep my comments about the name to myself).

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Would you rather it was called a "Mo-tel"? :lol: :lmao: :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Marla

Would you rather it was called a "Mo-tel"? :lol: :lmao: :rofl:

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:bleh: ... NOT .... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Like I said, I like it not because it's something super outrageous, but just for the subtle goodness of a slightly enhanced mojave (which is my favourite naturally occurring morph).

Ahh, good to know that it was MKR and not Renaissance who hatched it out first. When I saw the thread Renaissance posted on KS a few months back with the pastel x mojave and the spider x mojave, I thought they were the first to produce those crosses. Who was the first to hatch out a spider x mojave then?

As for pastave, definitely not as good of a name for a cross as bumblebee/killer bee :P Can't really think of anything that would be suitable... the name of another desert like Sahara perhaps? Who knows, what's done is done. I just hope they don't name the super pastel x mojave a supastave.

Anyway, if I had the money right now, I'd cross a congo jungle and a mojave as I said before, as I think the congo gene would do the most to enhance the natural colouring of the mojave. Whether crossing all 3 genes will make any further improvement is tough to say, but is definitely someothing I'd try if I had the snakes to breed :P Oh well, maybe I'll pick up a congo in a season or two, and a mojave a season or two after that if all goes well, who knows.