Belly Heat Temperature

In the interest of increased safety, i've attatched a temperature probe directly to the substrate on top of my UTH (I use lizard liner carpet, so the probe is just stuck directly on to it). This way, I can see EXACTLY what heat my bp is feeling through the floor of his tank. My question is: what temperature should this be? I've read everywhere about specific ambient temperatures, but no where have I found a source telling me what temperature the belly heat should be held at.

I tape the probes of my thermostats directly to the heat tape and set them to 94 degrees.

How did you "attach" the probe to your lizard carpet? Not with tape right?

-adam

The probe itself (this is the classic digital walmart thermometer/hygrometer) has a small amount of adhesive on it. If you set the heat tape itself to 94 degrees, wouldn't the actual substrate temperature be lower than that?

A little bit, but the ball python will burrow down and get right on the bottom of the cage if they need to. Compressing the weight of their body on the heat source allows for a good transfer of heat from source to snake.

Using the lizard carpet, you could test the temp on top of the carpet and keep adjusting the thermostat temp until it's where you need it. For example, if you want the temp on top of the substrate to be 94, the thermostat may need to be set at 96 or 97. You'll just have to play with your thermometer until you get it where you need it. Infrared temp guns work great for stuff like that!

-adam

So considering my probe is directly on the carpet and not on the heater itself, what temperature should I keep it at?

would the thermostat be more accurate if i put the probe on the uth?

Adam, I followed the advice I assumed you would probably give me, and moved my probe directly onto the glass of the tank over the UTH, and under the lizard liner. So what should I keep that sucker at, assuming the liner is fairly thin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epilover

So considering my probe is directly on the carpet and not on the heater itself, what temperature should I keep it at?

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What temperature do you want to keep it at? I'm not sure what you're asking?

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bpkid

would the thermostat be more accurate if i put the probe on the uth?

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Nope, the thermostat has the same accuracy wether the probe is on the uth or not.

-adam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epilover

Adam, I followed the advice I assumed you would probably give me, and moved my probe directly onto the glass of the tank over the UTH, and under the lizard liner. So what should I keep that sucker at, assuming the liner is fairly thin.

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I never said that. I attach my probes directly to the heat tape on the outside of the cage. Compressing the probe between the glass and the liner could cause false temp readings (from the heat build up between the glass and the liner). If you're going to move it to the outside of the tank, make sure your tank is slightly elevated off the ground so there is airflow around the UTH.

As far as what temp, you're going to have to use a digital thermometer inside the cage and adjust the temp on the thermostat until the thermometer shows the temp that you need.

-adam

Hmm, i'd agree with you there, but the same confounding variable comes into play with placing the sensor outside the tank. There you have a heat buildup between the UTH and the table 1/4in below it (using corner spacers around the tank to elevate it slightly). Not to mention, the ambient room temperature would then also come into play. There's no real "weight" over the sensor under the lizard liner, as nothing weight bearing is on top of it. Even if my bp were lying directly on it, he weighs 1/2lb and maybe 5-10% of that weight would be concentrated directly on the 1/2 dime size sensor.

Sorry, let me clarify a bit:

The sensor over the UTH is a thermometer sensor, NOT a thermostat probe. I'm controlling the wattage of the UTH with a dimmer.

wow dude, you're thinking about this WAY too much!

I put the probe on the heat tape and set the thermostat to 94 degrees .... 200 snakes, 320 tubs .... snakes move from hot spot to cool as needed ..... works great for me!

-adam

Any other input from others would be appreciated.

Thanks for the info adam.

hey all, you can't really regulate the heat source with a dimmer. the dimmer only varies the voltage to the heat source. your temps will go up and down with the room/house temps. installing thermostat probes real close or on the heat source will prevent it from becoming too hot. you need a good thermometer to double check the temps inside your cage and adjust the thermostat to get your desired temp.


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epilover

Sorry, let me clarify a bit:

The sensor over the UTH is a thermometer sensor, NOT a thermostat probe. I'm controlling the wattage of the UTH with a dimmer.

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OHHHHH!!! .... ok, makes more sense now .... If the UTH is on the "basking end" of the cage, adjust the rheostat until the temp is 90 - 95 degrees. I prefer around 94, but you'll have to figure out what works best for your snake.

-adam

Ok, well, i moved the sensor to the UTH on the outside the tank as you suggested. Should I keep it around 95?

As far as the thermostats are concerned, I already have a herpstat proportional thermostat controlling my ambient heat lamps. Are you saying I need to blow another $100 for a proportional thermostat for my belly heat? I can't see how a UTH's temp would vary nearly as much as heat lamps would in relation to room temps.

can you describe your setup? i would try to ditch the overhead light and get a heat source big enough to keep your temps(belly heat for a bp). if you have a prop. stat that should be fine and the only one you need.


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epilover

Ok, well, i moved the sensor to the UTH on the outside the tank as you suggested. Should I keep it around 95?

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I suggested that when I thought you were talking about a thermostat. For a thermometer, the probe should be inside the cage. You should keep it at whatever temp works for you and your snake. Hot spots for a ball python are normally 90-95 degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epilover

As far as the thermostats are concerned, I already have a herpstat proportional thermostat controlling my ambient heat lamps. Are you saying I need to blow another $100 for a proportional thermostat for my belly heat? I can't see how a UTH's temp would vary nearly as much as heat lamps would in relation to room temps.

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I'm not "saying" that you need to "blow" anything. What I am saying is that having a thermostat on each side is hands down the best way to ensure that your snake has optimal temperature. It's your decision how much is "too much" for the proper care of your snake.

-adam

Ok ok, i'm not looking to start any kind of argument. I'm just trying to figure out what's best for my bp, and unfortunately, my budget as well. I am ordering a second herpstat thermostat for my belly heat. As for right now, until it comes, i'm working with a thermometer + dimmer switch setup for my UTH. So i've got the sensor affixed to the UTH outside the tank, and I'm aiming to keep it reading around 97 degrees. When the herpstat arrives, I should attatch the probe to this same location, and set it to 97, is that all correct?

I know this is getting a bit long-winded, but I just wanna get this figured out right for the sake of my bp. I was horrified when I hooked my temp sensor up to the UTH and it read 115 degrees. No wonder he's never laying on the ground over the UTH, it was way too hot before. I'm just glad I caught this before any real damage could be done, and am so gratefuly that my bp didn't get burned. I routinely would feel the substrate over the UTH with my hand and it felt comfortably warm, but I guess you can't detect 115 degrees with your hand. I know better now, and am doing everything I can to get this right before something goes wrong.

that depends on what the temps are inside your cage when the stat is set to 97. to keep your hot side 90 you might need to set the stat to 93 or 95 or something different. the temps inside your cage will need to be checked and adjust your stat to get your desired temps. can you describe your setup? i'm curious why you two heat sources on your hot side?


vaughn

I'm asking about the belly heat with all other variables aside, because those are taken care of. My hot side ambient temp is controlled with a proportional thermostat and steady always at 90 degrees, thanks to a CHE overhead. My cool side is generally around 80 degrees.

Why are you putting the probe under the carper on the glass when the snake is going to be on top of the carpet ??

it isn't.

Oh ok.nevermind

LOL wow this got needlessly complicated. :lol:

I myself don't have any experience with thermostats yet(definitely getting a good one soon, and some flexwatt). But I think I understand it. Here's how you set it up.

Put the digital thermometers probe inside the warm hide on the substrate so you can measure the temperatures that your snake feels. Then plug your UTH into your thermostat, and put the thermostats probe on the UTH itself. Set the thermostat to something like 98 degrees, and monitor your temps to see what they get to. If the temps in your cage get to your desired temperature, perfect! If not, adjust the thermostat until you hit the right temps. Once that's set, you should be good.

Sound right? I was trying to clear it up a bit, lol. :)

Yep

Ok this is something that i need to start doing because as of now i only have the temp and humidity readings for the cold side of the tank.

So for me to get this working i need:
-one thermostat(For the controling of the UTH so that it does not go over the temp that i enter into the thermostat)

-and one temp probe that goes in the tank on the hot side where the snake will be laying. Which means i should go to home depot or someting and just pick up a temp gauge with a robe on it.

My question is does anyone know of a site where i could buy a thermostat online, im not looking to sped millions a dollars but i would like one that i know will work. Any suggestions would be very helpful thanks.

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile_...ollers_27.html

http://www.mgreptiles.com/thermomain.html

Those are the places I'd buy one from. :)

I was wondering, and this may sound stupid but am going to ask it anyway. But if you have the correct belly temps for the tank then would the ambient temp in the tank really matter? I say this because if you have the UTH's hooked to a thermostat then the snake will always be able to have the perfect temp to "suck" its heat from. So wouldn't lets say putting UTH's along the whole underside of the tank really be the best way to ensure that you have the most accurate temps for your hot side and your cooler side?

The ambient temp is a side effect of the UTH's ... If you have the UTH's at the right temps the ambient air temp should not be too different. Ball pythons can bask and "suck" heat from a given heat source (that's a really loose explanation), but the air that they breathe into their lungs has to be at the appropriate temps as well. You couldn't put a ball python on a heat pad in siberia and expect it to survive.

The thing that you have to remember is that ball pythons need a thermal gradiant. One side 90-95 the other side 82-84. Setting a tank up this way allows the temps between those two sides to settle in anywhere between ~82-94 and gives your snake a wide array of temperature to choose from. The idea is that since your snake can't tell you what temp it needs at any given moment, you provide it with a range of temps and let the snake figure out where he/she wants to be.

-adam

Great answer adam, thanks for the info. Im sorry if that was a stupid question but i have owned my BP for under a year and still have a lot to learn. Thanks for helping me :)

Man, I hate to sound like an 80 year old school teacher, but .... "There are no stupid questions" .... LOL .... Sounds like you're doing great so far!

-adam

It's actually a good point. It also makes me realize I need to do some adjusting to my tank!!!!!

What do you think would be too cool for air temp in the cage? Because my room is cold during the winter, so it's at around 70-75 air temp in the cage. Too cold? :(

I would say that its a little on the cold sign, my temp is right about at 80 on the cool side, making the warm side around 85-90. See if you cna keep the air temp closer to 80.

Cody, it might be a good time to add supplemental heat in some form or try to keep your room a little warmer with a space heater or something.

Ideally, you really want to try and keep the cool side 80-84 and hot side 90-95 year round. Sometimes it means heat sources on both sides of the enclosure or some type of room heater in the winter, but ball pythons will do much better if kept at those temps year round.

-adam

Do you really think its ok to put UTH's on both sides of the tank, i was thinking of doing that but didn't want the snake to not have a place to go to cool off if he wanted to. If that is not really an ussure i may do that so i can scrap my over tank heater which kills humidity. But i was always under the impression that there should always be a cool side.

I am positive that it's ok to put UTH's on both side of the tank ;)

A cool side of 82-84 would allow your ball python to get as cool as he'd ever need.

-adam

Wow that makes things so much better for me!! Now i can get rid of that damn ceramic heater!! yes! Thanks for the info adam. i was thinking of doing that but i was not sure of if they liked to get cooler then 80.

What was the temp under the ceramic heater?

-adam

Im really not sure because i only have the temp/humidity on my cool side at the moment and the heat lamp was on the same side as the UTH(hot side). I am going out tomorrow to get the digital one to put on the hot side(have stick on one for cool side) so that i know the temps/humidity on that side. I need to get a thermo for the UTH as well, thats what imtalking about with matt now.

You will almost have to keep the heat emitter going in the take you currently have. A 55 gallon is to tall to exclude it. When I was first into herps I wuld use 2 uth's, but I would have to use 2 thermostats. One set about 95 and one set to 83 or so..
-Matt

Ya i have kept the ceramic heater on but now i have covered the top of the tank and my humidity problems are almost completly solved!! Its at a steady 55% without the humidifier, when i get that working the humidity will be perfect.

I would suggest putting the tank on it's side. Thats what I did with my 29 gal and it helps alot with keeping heat/humidity in. It also gives you more floorspace.

Ok i just went out today to pick up a digital thermom/hygrometer and i put the probe for the temp under the substrate(couple layers of paper towls) and found that the UTH is at 107 degrees F. From the conversation in this thred this seem to be a little on the high side, but the weird thing is that my snake likes it in thre. If it was too hot do don't you think she would stay out of there? I really don't have the money to buy a thermostat right now but is this temp too high????

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Originally Posted by DrEwTiMe

If it was too hot do don't you think she would stay out of there?

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No. When not given the proper choices of temperatures, ball pythons will make poor choices.

-adam

is this dangerously too high of a temp...do you think till i have the money to get a thermostat that i should unstick the UTH form the bottom of the tank and stick something inbetween the UTH and tank to buffer some of the heat.

Is this temp cabable of causing thermal burns??

Yes, I do feel that 107 is bordering on dangerous. For less than $10, you can do to home depot and get a lamp dimmer, this should be able to tweak the temp down a little until you can save for a thermostat. Putting something between the UTH and the glass sounds like it could be unsafe or make the UTH really ineffective.

-adam