"Muscle tone" in ball pythons...?

I see the phrase pop up here and there, but haven't seen it discussed really. I'm not speaking of obesity from overfeeding, but... a ball python who is just held like a blob in hands when out vs. a ball python who is allowed to attempt to climb on a chair, branch, or arm quite often.

Is there such a thing as good/bad muscle tone in ball pythons, depending on how often they climb around on objects/exercise? I thought having a fixed level of strength in snakes was automatically inherent?

yep, when i take out my snakes, it's exercise and exploration time. they'll climb, scurry, periscope, hug, etc. i hope that's a good 15 minute routine every other day or so.

i then wrap them around my arm and let them squeeze. that let's me know that they have some good strength (this and the one on live prey demonstrating it every meal).

i'll worry if i could see skin between scales or if they cannot coil and constrict.

I think discussions of muscle tone on here have little to do with weight and more to do with physical (and possibly neurological??) wellbeing of the snake. Keep in mind that I'm not educated on snake illnesses or anything like that; this is just what I've gathered from reading a lot of threads here.

Imagine if a dog, or rabbit or whatever was suddenly barely able to hold itself up on its legs, and had them weak and wobbly all of a sudden after having been able to stand, sit up, and walk normally. Big warning sign, right? Well snakes are pretty much always on the ground and use a lot fewer muscle groups to move, but same principle. Low muscle tone, as would be seen in an inability or weakened ability to constrict, grip, or move properly, is a red flag in regards to the general health of your snake.

If a BP has low muscle tone, I'm assuming the signs would be as such: trouble constricting prey, holding on to things to climb or otherwise navigate on anything other than flat ground, curling/coiling up as tightly as they should be able to.

If anyone else sees any misinformation in here, please do correct me :)

Ax, I've been giving them "exercise" too, but also weirdly unsure if it would stress them out. Probably just being paranoid though. :P

I guess the question in the first post is... is it even possible for ball pythons to have low muscle tone, unable to constrict prey properly? I assumed that snakes almost have a fixed inherent level of muscle tone/strength. Is intentionally strenuous "exercise" or "practice constricting" even necessary? aka, other than just letting them slither around on the ground and on your arm and such LOL.

How do people even give them exercise?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

Ax, I've been giving them "exercise" too, but also weirdly unsure if it would stress them out. Probably just being paranoid though. :P

I guess the question in the first post is... is it even possible for ball pythons to have low muscle tone, unable to constrict prey properly? I assumed that snakes almost have a fixed inherent level of muscle tone/strength. Is intentionally strenuous "exercise" or "practice constricting" even necessary? aka, other than just letting them slither around on the ground and on your arm and such LOL.

---

Ah I see what you mean! Well I assume that snake muscles work like those of any other animal. That is to say, they can maintain a healthy tone or they could atrophy. Well... By that logic, snakes would also be able to get buff :giggle: maybe that's what those really chunky looking ones have got going on :D

And I doubt exercise is necessary for BPs as they are really not "designed" to do tons of strengthening exercises. They're just meant to sit and hide and sometimes get food/water. I can't imagine it being harmful to challenge them a little for a few seconds, though! Sometimes I get Donuts to curl around my hand/arm just because it's so cute and interesting. Extra cute points for curling her little tail around my finger!!

edit: I always forget to respond to all parts! Anyway, as for letting them wander, periscope, etc., I think that's really more beneficial for their mental stimulation than their physicality. But again I don't see it doing any harm as long as you don't keep them out and moving for excessively long periods of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

How do people even give them exercise?

---

When mine start to get a little... "fluffy"... I'll cut back on the food and if the weather is good they go outside to move around in the grass for a while.

Keep close to them if they do go out, as not only can they move rather quickly, but in my area I've noticed that the birds of prey (hawks) take a keen interest in them also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

How do people even give them exercise?

---

Climbing on arms and chairs, typical snake stuff other than sitting in a tub or on a hand, basically. :giggle:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cristacake

Ah I see what you mean! Well I assume that snake muscles work like those of any other animal. That is to say, they can maintain a healthy tone or they could atrophy. Well... By that logic, snakes would also be able to get buff :giggle: maybe that's what those really chunky looking ones have got going on :D

And I doubt exercise is necessary for BPs as they are really not "designed" to do tons of strengthening exercises. They're just meant to sit and hide and sometimes get food/water. I can't imagine it being harmful to challenge them a little for a few seconds, though! Sometimes I get Donuts to curl around my hand/arm just because it's so cute and interesting. Extra cute points for curling her little tail around my finger!!

edit: I always forget to respond to all parts! Anyway, as for letting them wander, periscope, etc., I think that's really more beneficial for their mental stimulation than their physicality. But again I don't see it doing any harm as long as you don't keep them out and moving for excessively long periods of time.

---

Yeah, I figured that too. Well, all we can do is guess, I suppose! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

When mine start to get a little... "fluffy"... I'll cut back on the food and if the weather is good they go outside to move around in the grass for a while.

Keep close to them if they do go out, as not only can they move rather quickly, but in my area I've noticed that the birds of prey (hawks) take a keen interest in them also.

---

^I have had experience in many hawks immediately taking an interest in small pets outside. :I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

How do people even give them exercise?

---

Provide a safe environment for them to explore and climb.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...93ff001bcd.jpg

Elvira

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...3cfe3c1f58.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...adf0515a76.jpg

Elenore

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...469a0a6d67.jpg

Lizzy

Nobody worries they're gonna fall? I know I do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

Nobody worries they're gonna fall? I know I do

---

I worry about mine when they slide up the the corner of the tank, and then fall over backward. (all 15 grams!)
That one Reinz posted a couple weeks ago of Elvira (?) heading for the attic stressed me out.

I suppose they actually do OK on smooth furnishings, but the idea makes me want to set up an overhead grid of actual tree limbs that have the rough bark still attatched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

Nobody worries they're gonna fall? I know I do

---

In my experience, only the hatchlings fall most of the time. Just like human kids, once they start growing up and learning to coordinate themselves they really don't fall much.

Donuts used to fall all the time (small heights, don't worry!) when she was younger but now at 4 months old she's only fallen once in the past few weeks and that was because she was trying to be on my leg when I was wearing pajamas with a material that her scales slid right off of.

I feel like every "kid" could stand to fall a few times or else how will they ever learn how to explore? Which is understandably not an issue for BPs that are kept almost exclusively in their tubs but I like my Donuts to explore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

Ax, I've been giving them "exercise" too, but also weirdly unsure if it would stress them out. Probably just being paranoid though. :P

I guess the question in the first post is... is it even possible for ball pythons to have low muscle tone, unable to constrict prey properly? I assumed that snakes almost have a fixed inherent level of muscle tone/strength. Is intentionally strenuous "exercise" or "practice constricting" even necessary? aka, other than just letting them slither around on the ground and on your arm and such LOL.

---

oh yes, i believe a healthy BP has a fixed inherent level of strength for whatever size they are. it's gotta be the result of a bajillion years of evolution. they pretty much just hide and sleep until they're hungry. i think their strength is i just as natural as their instinct to hunt.

and for BP's that are like blobs, i think those ones just aren't flexing. ;) :strong:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SCWood

Nobody worries they're gonna fall? I know I do

---

It's uncommon for my adults.

If you study them while they are climbing, most of the time they have their tail wrapped to anchor themselves. But when they don't, you can see the muscularture of another area of their body "gripping".

I'm always keeping a close watch just in case.

Just like here when they really push the envelope.

This is Mack, my 5-6 ft 2 yr old Coastal Python. This trim molding that he is on is less than a half inch thick.

I Caught him as he fell.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...263690fafa.jpg




Then here's Lizzy my 7 ft + Coastal cruising on thin picture frames.

I pulled her off of them before everything would come crashing down.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...fd30e9abe5.jpg

@Reinz - I always love your climbing photos! that pix of Lizzy on the picture frames :O! you've got some athletic snakes!

My Coastals and even my BP are more adventurous than my Boa!

You would think just the opposite.

The Coastals just have this "never say die" attitude, even when at the end of their rope.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...f634477e7f.jpg

Mack

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...471ffc22ee.jpg

Star Gazing, see star at 11 o'clock.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...941a2069a9.jpg

Just want to keep going up.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...c8bcf2e70b.jpg

There ya go, great exercise!

Beautiful snake

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinz

There ya go, great exercise!

Beautiful snake

---

Thanks! That's our big boy, Boots lol

Reinz, I always love to see your big kids' photos.

SCWood, I am in love with the idea of a snake named Boots. I'm inclined to name my next one Socks or something else that goes on feet :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cristacake

Reinz, I always love to see your big kids' photos.

SCWood, I am in love with the idea of a snake named Boots. I'm inclined to name my next one Socks or something else that goes on feet [emoji14]

---

Isn't it adorable? :3 stems from an ongoing joke actually

Don't think I'll ever get tired of seeing those big snakes stretch their legs....so to speak.

Dave

I wondered about this a lot when I got Gwny. She literally felt like pudding, where my other two BP's feel very firm. I have read that a lot of that has to do with how comfortable the snake is. When she was in blue she felt more firm because she couldn't see and didn't know what was going on. She couldn't kill a rat pinkie by constriction, she actually gave up and started biting its neck really hard and shaking it. I wonder if her issues with constriction has to do with the spider wobble. Though the wrap was fine, just didn't seem to have any power behind it. She is also extremely inactive. Some days I don't think she even thermoregulates, she always feels cooler than the other two. I've been taking her out and letting her roam and climb, so hopefully she will develop more muscle tone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightwolfsnow

I wondered about this a lot when I got Gwny. She literally felt like pudding, where my other two BP's feel very firm. I have read that a lot of that has to do with how comfortable the snake is. When she was in blue she felt more firm because she couldn't see and didn't know what was going on. She couldn't kill a rat pinkie by constriction, she actually gave up and started biting its neck really hard and shaking it. I wonder if her issues with constriction has to do with the spider wobble. Though the wrap was fine, just didn't seem to have any power behind it. She is also extremely inactive. Some days I don't think she even thermoregulates, she always feels cooler than the other two. I've been taking her out and letting her roam and climb, so hopefully she will develop more muscle tone.

---

As long as you are watching where she can't get into danger, I think that it is only positive to let her out to play.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...5355f57beb.jpg


Mack hanging out with Dolly and Marbles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinz

As long as you are watching where she can't get into danger, I think that it is only positive to let her out to play.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...5355f57beb.jpg


Mack hanging out with Dolly and Marbles.

---

I have a snake room that's off limits to the cats, and I just sit in there and watch her when I take her out. Neat that your dog and cat don't seem to care. Pretty sure my three demon kittens would think the snakes were toys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightwolfsnow

I have a snake room that's off limits to the cats, and I just sit in there and watch her when I take her out. Neat that your dog and cat don't seem to care. Pretty sure my three demon kittens would think the snakes were toys.

---

My cat does x.x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinz

As long as you are watching where she can't get into danger, I think that it is only positive to let her out to play.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...5355f57beb.jpg


Mack hanging out with Dolly and Marbles.

---

I forgot that you have a collie. Nice looking girl. I'll have to grab a pic of my two with a scale friend some time.

Dave

My only experience is with my two baby BPs, but they definitely have different strength levels.

My male who is about 3 months old and 100 grams doesn't have much strength and does almost no wrapping or gripping on me. This led me to dropping him a couple of times early on when he just slid right off my arm and one of those times him biting me for trying to catch him. I've since gotten much better at handling and making sure to keep him from a position that would let him fall. I feel too nervous to let him roam free as I'm worried he'll fall from a height. He doesn't seem unhealthy and does all his other business quite normally. I've watched him kill 4 rodents now quite efficiently (the last being his first crawler rat that he had to get two full coils around).

My new girl who is 2 months old and 91 grams seems like a muscle bound freak compared to my other BP. When she climbs on me she anchors herself with her tail and always give a good squeeze when there is any risk of falling. She did fall once when she scared herself with her own tail dropping down on the other side of my arm and her recoil sent her flying right off me. I have let her roam free in my bathroom and she went as high as she could before wedging herself into a the gap between my medicine cabinet and wall (and it took forever to get her to come out!). She is a great climber though and seems much more secure with stabilizing herself.

Maybe this is just baby stuff, but it's interesting the difference between the two of them.

Thats so funny! My baby girl likes to climb too! But I just let my big boy crawl all over me and my bed. Of course the cats and dogs aren't allowed in the room when the snakes are out.

Any evidence that weakness in some is due to their genetics (like the spider wobble)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKA Dave

I forgot that you have a collie. Nice looking girl. I'll have to grab a pic of my two with a scale friend some time.

Dave

---

I'd love to see your Collies. They are rare in my neck of the woods.

I actually have two.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...a493ac8830.jpg

Dolly, my daughter, and Whisper.