Keeping a ball python couple in the same cage?

Hey Ladies and Gents,

What do you think about keeping a couple of balls (male and female) in the same cage?
Any (bad) experiences?


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Generally speaking, it's frowned upon. They're not social animals and only come together to breed.

Dave

BPs want their solitude!


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Pamela and GINGER, my wonderful BP

1 dog, 3 cats, 1 macaw, 1 husband, 1 daughter, and GINGER [emoji216]


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not a good idea unless u want unwanted clutches or stressed animals. basically multiple BP's in the same enclosure will compete for heat and hides.

This: http://squamishserpents.ca/care-info...-one-enclosure

Thanks for the link! Is it unusual in The U.S. Or Canada to keep a couple in a tank? The majority of German herpers don't do it either. But heard also about many keepers who do it with no problems. Nobody here with positive experience about that? [emoji41]


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Nothing positive about two balls in a tank.

Ball pythons don't want company. It just means they will compete for the best place, they will lie on top of one another, which people think means they "like" each other but it's a form of dominating each other.

If one gets sick or gets parasites, they'll both get sick or parasites. That's double the vet bill, double the chances of it being a really bad illness or even death. The stress on both snakes will be more, which means they will be more inclined to get sick. The stress also causes more feeding issues including regurgitation which further stresses theire system.

You even have the risk of one eating the other one. It's happened before. That can kill the eater in addition to (obviously) killing the one eaten.

Stressed snakes also have more of a tendency to strike at a keeper and also to attempt escapes.

There is just no good reason to co-house ball pythons.

From what I've personally seen (I'm in the US), the people who were keeping more than one BP together were typically under-educated in BPs. They expressed sentiments such as "they always cuddle together!" when it's likely the two were just competing over the "sweet spot" in the enclosure. Often times, the only arguments for keeping the snakes together were solely financially motivated, i.e. "why pay for two cages when I can keep them in one?" It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of passionate keepers to see animals being put at increased risk to save a few dollars. (That's not to say that anyone who cohabits snakes is negligent or cheap - just that we shouldn't be buying animals only to give them the bare minimum of care). A $15 snake has just as much of a right to live as a $1500 snake, and if we can't afford to care for an animal appropriately we should abstain until we do have the money for it.

So, can some types of snakes successfully cohabit the same enclosure? Yes. Is it often recommended? No. For the reasons in the article someone posted above (identifying the sick snake out of the pair, minimizing stress levels, etc.), cohabitation of BPs is best left to experienced keepers. If you want to attempt it, your husbandry must be on point and even a bit excessive to accommodate multiple animals so they don't have to compete as often. That's twice the hides/basking areas and/or a nice big gradient so they can both get what they need. You have to have an extra set-up on hand anyway, for quarantine purposes (if the snakes were purchased at different times/places) and to separate them if one seems sick or stressed, so there isn't all that much money to be saved in the long run - and if one is sick, that's double the vet bills since the other is already exposed. You have to know how to tell if the snakes are unwell, and not just assume things are okay because they're surviving.

In a sense, many average BP keepers (keeping one as a pet or being a hobbyist breeder) have their BPs in separate enclosures the majority of the time (aside from pairing to breed) because it's easier than jumping through all of the hoops required to keep them housed together. It can be done, but there are risks involved no matter how well you prepare, and really no benefits beyond studying their interactions. Even then, with such simple brains, BPs will not reveal little chess games - only things like "I'm stressed," or "I'm ready to reproduce."

If you want to try it, go for it. We never would have learned the majority of the information we have now if we all followed the same care sheet that was established 20 years ago. But PLEASE go into it with open eyes and give it the due diligence and planning those snakes deserve. They're not disposable pets of convenience; they are living, feeling creatures who need care and respect.

Can it be done? Yes.
Should it be done? Only if you are really good at understanding your snakes.

My best option to remember is IF something goes wrong you have double the problem.

Aside from all the reasons already listed, I do know a story of someone who kept two ball pythons in one tank (because of saving money), and they both ended up with respiratory infections and ultimately died because the owner kept refusing suggestions to go to the vet due to lack of money; however, he somehow kept purchasing more snakes...

Generally speaking, it's common knowledge to snake people that snakes belong in separate spaces. There are just so many reasons it can go wrong with absolutely no benefits to the snakes. Plus, ball pythons are cannibalistic-rarely, but it happens.

I don't even keep my axolotls together for fear of spreading infections and the very minimal risk of them harming one another - it's just not worth it.

It makes it SO MUCH easier when someone gets sick, if there's multiple to a tank I have to guess if there's not any apparent signs.

Here is a good write up on the cannibalism people like to refer to. https://skiploder.wordpress.com/2015...e-world-maybe/ but here is the tldr version

Quote:

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Cohabitation does not kill these animals. Stress and starvation (energy stress) did.

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Can we also stop saying these are not social animals and in the same breath say they dominate or compete with each other. That is social behavior, which there appears to be no reason to assume they have much social behavior at all. They just simply pick the spot they feel is best and sit there, I see no reason to assume they give any thought to what else or who else is there. That can be reinforced by the reports of ball pythons being found together in holes the wild.

I would never recommend cohabitation with ball pythons, it is more expensive to do properly than housing 2 animals individually and has a few downsides that cannot be avoided. There isn't any advantage, so I see no reason to bother. It can be done, in my experience no most people do not have a proper set up when they do, do it. These people also claim they never have issues, which is true, you never have issues... until you have issues. when those issues arise the animals suffer and it's not fair to them when the issues could've been avoided.

At the same time, if someone chooses to provide a proper setup, educate themselves, and still cohabitate for whatever reason, I don't think they should be ridiculed like many choose to do also. While I find these people rare. Chances are they know more about what they are doing than you or I.

Generally speaking if you have to ask it means that you may not have the right experience to do so.

Can it be done? Yesc

Can everyone do it? No, people who have limited experience should concentrate on keeping a single animal to start with and meet proper husbandry requirements, it's easy yet some people still fail doing so therefore the last thing they need is to house two animal in an enclosure.

Are there any benefit of doing so? No

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Not really a Ball Python guy, but I've always thought the "transmitting diseases" reason against cohabitation was a bit overblown. For example, if there is an actual communicable disease in one animal the chances of that same disease being in the entire collection is VERY high in my opinion. This is why we do quarantines with new snakes (with all separate husbandry equipment).

But I don't know of anyone who has all separate husbandry equipment for each animal in their regular collection.

It's like with mites, if one snake has them then chances are good that all of your snakes have them.

I think that their are two of the reasons that one shouldn't do it that trump all the cannibalism worries and stress worries and that is unwanted or unknown breeding and inability to discern different sheds. The other one is just how annoying it would be to manage feedings.

A snake's shed is a great insight into how your setup is doing in terms of maintaining the health of your animal.

And breeding can be very detrimental to a snake if it keeps happening over and over with no break. Or if you don't know the snake is preggers you may not feed her enough etc etc.