bred too young...

long story short, my 539 gram male normal and 589 gram female albino have been successfully locking tails. I made the mistake of putting them together, because I thought they were both female and they always got along, plus it was only temporary. of course they're now separated, but is this okay? I know the female was way too young...

Aren't you the keeper that was completely convinced that your 'two females' got along great and it was okay to co-hab?


Magic 8-Ball Says - Outlook is grim. Or you could get lucky and she just hangs onto the sperm.

At this point, there's no reason to worry if it's OK or not OK - it's done. Bottom line, she won't go if she's not ready to. Separate them, turn yourself into a sponge for information, dial in all aspects of their care, and enjoy the ride while you wait for them to grow up quite a bit.

yeah I am. except I clearly said that I believed them both to be females up until this point, and that was part of my confusion. and yeah, I was convinced that they lived together just fine, and I still am. temps were always fine, as well as heat, eating patterns, health aspects and their temperament. they didn't start locking until a couple days ago, so they did live fine together until that point and I had every reason to believe so. I don't think there's anything wrong with housing two same sized females together as long as they have plenty of space, are getting along and stay on feed. my mistake was not getting my normal properly sexed and obviously I took credit for that as I acted on them locking immediately, by separating them and taking them in to double check the next day, and then asking for advice on the forum.
why would I want her to hold on to his sperm?

okay, while that was a nice little speech, it's not what I asked. if you're not going to be helpful then there's really no point in wasting either of our time in commenting. clearly I made a stupid mistake, but I'm trying to get a better understanding of what exactly is going to happen now. I think there is plenty of reason to worry, because I want to know if I should take her in or something. posting this thread was me trying to get some advice or information on my mistake. I'm well aware of the breeding process, but know nothing about what happens when you breed a mere 500 gram female to a sexually mature male. If you'd be kind enough to explain to me more thoroughly what my situation now looks like, I'd love to listen.

Wow...dont listen to the the people who own snakes and breed them longer than you probably knew about them....talk to any good breeder and they will tell you the same thing....there are not termite mounds full of balls....and looking through your other post I pray you dont get a retic because you are no were near ready for that type of commitment.....please do you and your snakes a favor and research research research....not trying to be a d but its the truth take it or leave it...I can only lead the horse to water....I cant make it drink tho.

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Originally Posted by maudie

okay, while that was a nice little speech, it's not what I asked. if you're not going to be helpful then there's really no point in wasting either of our time in commenting. clearly I made a stupid mistake, but I'm trying to get a better understanding of what exactly is going to happen now. I think there is plenty of reason to worry, because I want to know if I should take her in or something. posting this thread was me trying to get some advice or information on my mistake. I'm well aware of the breeding process, but know nothing about what happens when you breed a mere 500 gram female to a sexually mature male. If you'd be kind enough to explain to me more thoroughly what my situation now looks like, I'd love to listen.

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Are you referring to my advice?

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Originally Posted by maudie

why would I want her to hold on to his sperm?

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Balls can hold onto sperm for quite a while before laying fertilized eggs. At this point, with her size, I wouldn't want her to attempt a clutch and would hope for her not to ovulate but instead just hold onto the sperm.

It doesn't matter that you think it's ok to house two snakes together. It's really not. They get zero social fulfillment form it and it makes any issues you may have with one snake difficult to diagnose and treat because you'll never know exactly which snake has the problem.

As for advice, cross your fingers the female doesn't go through a full breeding cycle and die because she's too young. Start researching on exactly how ball pythons reproduce if you want to know what your female could possibly go through. Try googling to see if anyone has cared for and posted about a female that became gravid at a young age. If there's a chance she'll produce viable eggs, any chance at all, you might want to look a a diy incubator or buying one. If anyone has any specific data, stories or links as to what to do with an accidentally gravid young female snake, let's contribute that.

I am not experienced in this but I have debated breeding ball pythons in the future when I'm ready to take on the task. I've done a lot of reading and if I remember right I read somewhere that a female will likely not become gravid before the age of 2. Hopefully she hangs on the the sperm because I don't think her little body can handle the full breed cycle. I also read that small females are at a greater risk of egg binding where they cannot pass the egg which I thought was fatal. There is no undoing this so they are right. Hope that she hangs onto the sperm because the damage is done. [emoji20]

Also were you not worried about your ball pythons cannibalizing each other? It's rare but it's been known to happen to even the ones that were the same size and were, "like sisters". I wouldn't feel comfortable taking that risk... or the risk you took with thinking both of your snakes were females and now they have mated... that's just me though. Good luck, I hope your female will be ok.

Clearly you made a mistake????u were still insisting that they did love to be with each other......and welcome to a public forum...all you can do is hope nothing happens....and you would not be in this situation if YOU didnt insist that they love each other and that they were best friends. Odds are she wont take and nothing will happen....cross your fingers and find a book to read up on husbandry and basic care for ball pythons...

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Oh wow...I am new to BP's as well...but I have been researching their care for well over a year before I bought my first ...just general reptiles knowledge... They do not want or need any "friends" .Why would you put 2 snakes together with all the possible disasters that could happen. These animals are not like a dog or cat. You absolutely have to do your research...yes this is a forum where people do know what they are talking about...but everyone of them did their research...so no...your not going to come ask a question after you obviously ignored previous advice to not put two snakes together and get all your questions answered without doing an ounce of work. If you can't even manage a small amount of research to benefit you snakes then maybe you shouldn't have snakes

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There's nothing you CAN do now that the damage is done.

Either she will ovulate and produce eggs, lay and you'll deal with eggs and a depleted small female....
Or she will not ovulate now, but may still ovulate at a later time, still undersized, lay eggs and you'll deal with eggs and a slightly less depleted female...
Or she will not ovulate until far later in life when she is of proper size, lay eggs and be fine....
Or she will ovulate, try to produce eggs and die...
Or she will ovulate, produce eggs, become egg bound and either require vet surgery or die...

So you see, "hoping she holds onto the sperm" is hoping that she does NOT ovulate, but just sits on that sperm and waits until she's big enough to lay healthy eggs without depleting herself, becoming eggbound, or dying.

There is no "I hope she doesn't breed" because you housed them together deliberately and caused this accidental breeding. It's a done deal. Even if she doesn't become gravid NOW, it's still a major risk for your snake up and until the snake is of a healthy size to be able to lay. Until she is that big, she could suddenly ovulate and try to produce at any given time, causing major issues.

It wasn't an accident that you chose to house them together, ignoring all the advice given. The accident was only in the missexing, which is one reason why people don't want snakes housed together, especially by inexperienced keepers.

Missexing can happen to anyone. I have a big fat male mojave here who has been labeled a female for THREE YEARS by me. I've successfully bred pythons, bred monitors, geckos, etc etc. And I still missexed the python. It happens. But I don't have "accidental breedings" because I still don't house snakes together. Even when I *think* they're both girls. Even if I *thought* they needed a snakey bestie. There's a hundred reasons NOT to co-house ball pythons and ZERO reasons to do it.

Hopefully at this point, you'll realize a few mistakes and learn and become a great keeper in the future who can enjoy the animals and introduce many new people to the joy of owning snakes.

hi, i'm sorry to pile on, i know u probably feel bad. it's ok to make a mistake but u gotta learn from it. listen to the advice/feedback of the longtime keepers and breeders here. hear them out. ^ wolfy-hound laid out all possible scenarios above. prepare yourself for all of it.

also i posted this last week in the 5 things u need to know about BP's thread u created.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

1. each BP should be housed separately.

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-ball-pythons

yep, like others have said. separate them. only co-habitat/pair them to bred.

good luck. keep us posted.

Well no one has a crystal ball to predict the future so you will have to wait and see what happens, my guess is that nothing will come out of it.

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Originally Posted by maudie

why would I want her to hold on to his sperm?

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I'd love answer your question but I'm too busy spraying coffee out of my nose. Thank you for brightening my day. :O:O:O

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Originally Posted by maudie

why would I want her to hold on to his sperm?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I'd love answer your question but I'm too busy spraying coffee out of my nose. Thank you for brightening my day. :O:O:O

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don't forget this one.

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Originally Posted by SmoothScales

Balls can hold onto sperm for quite a while...

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LMAO!! :rofl: :rofl: :P

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

There's nothing you CAN do now that the damage is done.

Either she will ovulate and produce eggs, lay and you'll deal with eggs and a depleted small female....
Or she will not ovulate now, but may still ovulate at a later time, still undersized, lay eggs and you'll deal with eggs and a slightly less depleted female...
Or she will not ovulate until far later in life when she is of proper size, lay eggs and be fine....
Or she will ovulate, try to produce eggs and die...
Or she will ovulate, produce eggs, become egg bound and either require vet surgery or die...

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There is one other possiblilty that comes to mind.

BOTH snakes were mis-sexed and are actually both male. I've seen male snakes copulate with other male snakes before. I believe that they do it as a show of dominance.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

don't forget this one.



LMAO!! :rofl: :rofl: [emoji14]

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[emoji12] Well! Remind me to consider my wording a little better next time.

Seriously though, can't they hold it for up to 2 years?

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thanks to those of you that gave information, I appreciate it. I'll definitely be doing some more thorough research on ball python husbandry and such. all three are separated now and will stay that way. although I don't agree with those of you that said I should not be keeping snakes at all because of this; I care incredibly for my three ball pythons and spend a lot of time insuring that they're happy and healthy. I'm distraught over this as it is my first serious mistake since I started keeping snakes. but I will absolutely do everything in my power to make it right for them. thanks again to those of you that took the time to give me information and advice, as well as explain all this to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maudie

thanks to those of you that gave information, I appreciate it. I'll definitely be doing some more thorough research on ball python husbandry and such. all three are separated now and will stay that way. although I don't agree with those of you that said I should not be keeping snakes at all because of this; I care incredibly for my three ball pythons and spend a lot of time insuring that they're happy and healthy. I'm distraught over this as it is my first serious mistake since I started keeping snakes. but I will absolutely do everything in my power to make it right for them. thanks again to those of you that took the time to give me information and advice, as well as explain all this to me.

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Thank you for finally taking the advice and separating your snakes! It's a relief to hear, though the damage is already done.
People on the forum do know what they're talking about. For future reference, it's wise to listen to experienced keepers about things to do or NOT to do, preferably before suffering the consequences...

thanks for all the information and thorough explanation, I appreciate it

oh, they have been separated since the locking first started which was a day before I posted this. this all started up saturday.

No use crying over spilt milk. Learn to listen to those who know more and have more experience,(good advice for us all). To elaborate on one of Wolfy's options she simply may not ovulate at all. I'm sure everyone here has had mature, healthy snakes lock and nothing ever came of it for whatever reason. I bred a 700g spinner to 3 females all of breeding size and had visual locks with all three but none ovulated at all. It happens. You may get lucky.
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