What's the big deal with ASF?

I'm just curious! Are they better for snakes? Are they really THAT good at getting picky snakes to eat? I've seen a lot about them [emoji14]

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I got a male of a 7 month fast with a frozen....could have been luck...who knows he's pounding f/t rats like a champ

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The are not better, their size when full grown is ideal and sometimes when everything has failed they actually help getting a BP back on food however it does not work with all of them.

The few snake I had going through a long fast 9 months to a year NEVER cared for them.

African soft furs are a native food item for bps in sub-Saharan Africa. People use them to try to get fasting bps to eat. Some believe that since bps evolved to hunt ASFs in nature that it will elicit a stronger feeding response than a standard Sprague Wawley or Wister rat that are usually native to Scandinavian countries.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

African soft furs are a native food item for bps in sub-Saharan Africa. People use them to try to get fasting bps to eat. Some believe that since bps evolved to hunt ASFs in nature that it will elicit a stronger feeding response than a standard Sprague Wawley or Wister rat that are usually native to Scandinavian countries.

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Are they better for them nutritionally?

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Originally Posted by SCWood

Are they better for them nutritionally?

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I doubt that anyone has done a nutritional breakdown of ASF's but I would highly doubt that they are any better or worse nutritionally then domestic mice or rats. I'm personally not that fond of them myself, I've received baby balls that had been started on ASF's and it was difficult to get them switched over to a more readily available food source.

Also, I don't think anyone knows what the ideal diet for a ball python even is. I feed mine mice and rats and they grow fine, breed fine and are healthy.

If you rate them out at ounce per ounce probably not enough difference to matter.

They are also illegal to own in some states (and are illegal to take across state lines) so if you do think you'd be interested in raising them, you will have to do some homework first. They are illegal to own in my state (GA).

I've heard that they smell less than rats / mice, but not sure if this is true or not.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

They are also illegal to own in some states (and are illegal to take across state lines) so if you do think you'd be interested in raising them, you will have to do some homework first. They are illegal to own in my state (GA).

I've heard that they smell less than rats / mice, but not sure if this is true or not.

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Just wondering why they are illegal? Any clue?

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Uh.....have you not seen Gremlins? Get them wet and pop pop pop you are overrun!!!

Invasive species

I've had some luck using ASFs on Ball pythons that won't eat or at least won't eat rats. I have an albino girl that was completely off feed for a long time since before I got her. The previous owner said she was his best eater (on rats) but she did have a scar from a rat bite on her neck which may have turned her off of rats. I did eventually give in and offered mice which she gobbled up immediately. However, she was well over breeding size even then and feeding several mice just wasn't ideal for me so I switched her to large ASFs to make life easier on myself. She took them great at first but she eventually stopped eating them. I didn't want to go back to mice so, I found that scenting the air with mice (I use a blow drier once the feeders are thawed to heat them up) to get them into a feeding frenzy and then offering a rat did the trick and she eventually switched over fully to rats :D. I have used this method with several other ball pythons that are or were picky and it works wonders if you have patience (at least for me it works). I have a Sub Saharan girl that I'm using this method with right now to slowly switch her over to rats. She is a bit smarter than the average ball though and I have to actually rub the ASF on the rat before I offer it :rolleyes:.

To answer the question of if they are really that good at getting picky eaters to eat.... I would have to answer from my own experience and say some more than others. Some prefer mice just as well and I've heard that some even prefer hamsters :O. I wouldn't necessarily stick to them as feeders since they tend to be more expensive, a bit smaller than a medium rat and I do believe that they can get "stuck" on them if you aren't careful... but if you have a picky eater that needs a "jump start" then offering a mouse or ASF can be beneficial (imo) if you go about it the right way.

For nutrition, I think it depends on how well you feed them. Not entirely sure, but because it is illegal to have live rats in my province the only option for live is mice or ASF and since ASFs are 3x bigger then mice this is what I typically feed my breeders. I breed my own colonies of mice and ASFs so availability is hardly ever a problem for me. I have been super lucky and never have I had a picky eater. If I do run out of ASFs my snakes are willing to take mice or f/t rats still and not one of my snakes are "stuck" on ASFs... Not one. I only feed live ASF because it is WAY cheaper for me and I don't have confidence in eutanizing them myself. It costs me about $100 a year to breed two colonies of mice and 4 colonies of ASF. But keep in mind that even if I was not breeding ASF, here they are readily available because we cannot have live rats. This may not be the case for you. Frozen ASF are about the same price as frozen rats but medium and jumbo rats are more expensive then a jumbo ASF.

They're mean little sh**z. If I would feed one of these little buggers to my snake it would have to be f/t. There's no way I'd put one of these live little biters in with my snakes. No way!

My husband has been breeding ASF's for several years now, and they do have pros and cons.

Pros include: They have much larger litters than mice or rats, so if you breed your own food, this is helpful. Despite their nasty tempers towards people, 9 times out of 10, when placed into a snake tub, they simply freeze in place and wait to be eaten. They ABSOLUTELY smell less than mice, rats, hamster, gerbils and most any other rodent. I don't know why, but they don't. They tend to eat less than standard mice or rats. Again, I don't know why, but this has been our experience over the last several years. They almost never get to large to feed an adult ball python. Which can be very handy if you are breeding your own food, or even if you just end up with a couple feeders that didn't get eaten for one reason or another. They do have fairly long lifespans for a rodent, and although they do take a little longer to reach breeding size, once they do they breed for a long time, at least in our experience. As far as we can tell, when well fed they are nutritionally the same as a standard rat.

Cons include: They are destructive little beasts! Plastic tubs are out of the question. Unless the inside is glass smooth and the tub is at least 18 inches tall, they can chew out of pretty much any plastic tub in under 10 minutes. Glass tanks are almost a must for keeping ASF's. And they must have heavy duty screen lids. That window screen stuff they can cut like a knife. They also need glass water bottles. Plastic bottles, even in metal holders, will be destroyed. They can have very nasty tempers, more commonly after they have babies. They can and will bite you and make you bleed if you aren't careful. We handle with tongs when needed, but this aggressiveness can be bred out. We have done it, and some other members here have as well. They will never be pet rat tame, but you can avoid the majority of bites if you can acquire them from a person who breeds for temperament. They are not a magic wand for getting a snake to eat. While some snakes take to ASF's right away, many may need a little coaxing, just like with rats and mice. And while the rare snake may prefer ASF's to anything else, especially if fed them exclusively when babies, most will happily switch back and forth. This is how we feed our snakes, since I also raise mice.

They are indeed illegal in many states as an invasive species, so check your laws, state and local, before you decide to start raising them.

I hope this helped you out a little.
Gale

ASF also known as multimamate mice (mm) are the ideal food for ball pythons (as someone has previously said) because they are included in the natural diet of wild ball pythons. However i can't believe what i am reading about their temperament. In England a lot of people have gone over to using them.

I think our use of them is more widespread than in the states, probably because of this variety of legality in your various states. If I asked my friends if they had ever been bitten by, or encountered a vicious asf they would all look at me like i was a bit daft. I think we have been breeding from rather different stock. Maybe our different lines have milder temperament or perhaps we have just bred it out due to breeding them longer.

I have bred many rodents from common mice and rats, to more exotic like gerds which are another (bloody expensive) natural prey item. I have found asf to be great but no better than gerbils or gerds. They just happen to be a lot cheaper than either of those. We now have so many people breeding them that the price is not a great deal higher than mice or rats. The last time i purchased frozen food i bought asf because the breeder had run out of European rats and offered me the asf cheaper.

I have had success breaking fast using asf. I have also had success converting by using a small asf, so as not to fill the snake, followed by a small rat whilst it is still in feeeding mode.