under tank heater

my under tank heater keeps falling off. it's still sticky it just won't stay and it works fine (other than that) so i don't want to buy a new one. anyone have any tricks to get it to stay up?

duct tape ... the universal repair tool! ... LOL

-adam

First of all your UTH should not touch the bottom of your enclosure. Air is the best insulator. Put the heater on the surface of your stand then place your enclosure on some 1/4' risers above the heater. You should have a space that is between the heater and the enclosure of about 1/4''.

One, your heater won't have to work as hard to keep up temps. saving you money on electric and replacement heaters.

Two, you won't have to worry about you snake getting thermal burns from a heat source that he/she is in direct contact with.

Hope I shed some light on your situation.

Not necessarily, "Jackhammer". You can affix the UTH to the bottom of the enclosure & leave an airspace on the other side - i.e. between the tank & stand - to prevent heat buildup. Temperatures should be regulated with a rheostat or thermostat.

Duct tape or electrical tape work fine for reattaching the heating pad.

K

Of course we all know to use reostats and thermostats(at least I hope we all do). However, we do not live in a perfect world and heaters have a way of going bad and raising the heat as well as just plain going out. A snake being cold blooded cannot necessarily tell in a gradual heat rise or drop. That is why we have heard so much about snake and other reptiles literally sticking to heaters and having really bad burns. Therefore, I would not put an UTH directly on the tank.

What's wrong with heat build up? Just turn your reostat down. If you have a thermostat it will adjust it for you, and your heater won't have to work as hard.

Why would I want an insulator between my heat source and the thing I'm trying to heat?

What KLG said .... she's wicked smart!

-adam

I think heater failure is a lot less common a cause of snakes being burned than poor husbandry. While it can happen, it shouldn't be a reason not to use a product in the manner it was designed to be used, especially with a safeguard such as a thermostat.

Whew - guess I better go start pulling heat tape off of all our racks & cages & suspending it instead of giving it direct contact. ;)

K

ooooo, burn me...

Whatever dude...just relaying personal experience. Lighten up. ;)

KLG, bp-pandora asked for some advise. That is just what I did. I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else. I simply gave some advise. Some pretty good advise if you ask me...


As far as the insulation question for bp pandora, insulation can be used both ways. For keeping heat in or keeping it out. Air just happens to be the best insulator there is.

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Originally Posted by Jack_Hammer

KLG, bp-pandora asked for some advise. That is just what I did. I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else. I simply gave some advise. Some pretty good advise if you ask me...

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Trust me...I have much more to do with my time than argue with you or anyone else on the internet, so please don't think that's what I was attempting to do. She was simply asking how to reattach the heater, and like you, I also gave her advice. We simply have two different viewpoints on effective use of undertank heaters.

Agreed?

K

Agreed. :D

I use metal heat-duct tape; regular duct tape did not work for me, because it stretched and my UTH was not flush with the tank floor. The actual metal duct tape is, well, metal. :)
My UTHs touch the bottom of my cages underneath, but i use a rheostat and they never get so hot that they could burn the snake. I use a thin layer of cypress substrate and the heat goes nicely through that.

Reptile heat-pads MUST touch the bottom, they have to stick...

UTH + Thermostat + on only 1 cage = not worth it

UTH/Heat Tape + Thermostat + Rack System = very worth it

Get an overhead lamp if you are only heating one animal in one enclosure. UTHs don't raise the air temp in aquariums, and often just bake the urates inside your snake before they even come out.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

UTH + Thermostat + on only 1 cage = not worth it

UTH/Heat Tape + Thermostat + Rack System = very worth it

Get an overhead lamp if you are only heating one animal in one enclosure. UTHs don't raise the air temp in aquariums, and often just bake the urates inside your snake before they even come out.

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Wow, news to me??? .... Before I had racks I always used UTH's and thermostats in aquariums and plastic cages with great success. Perfect temps for eating and breeding every year.

Contrary to your statment, in my experience, over head heating seemed to scorch the air and thwart any attempts at maintaining good humidity.

Glad that you have a system that works for you!

-adam

overhead heating is good if you can find a way to keep humidity in vai covering the top or a humid hide for shedding. But other than that, yeah, lamps dry the crap out of any cage setup.

One heat lamp with the right wattage bulb and a humidity solution is much more cost-effective than a decent thermostat, heat pad, etc. Thats what I was trying to say, not debating whether it was successful or not. I know both methods are do-able.

I work at a pet shop that specializes in herps and exotics. A few weeks ago a young ball python came in that was horribly impacted- on one of its own urates. Short version of the long story is that the heatpad developed a hot spot, and basically cooked the inside of the snakes bowel. The urate we got of him was like an impression of whatever gland that secretes them. Looked pretty painful...

was the animal burned? seems like it would have to be a pretty hot spot to do that...

It wasn't burned at all, thats what threw us off so much.

One question, bp_pandora: Are you using a glass or plastic cage? If you're using a glass tank, you may not want it to stick. I cracked a glass tank by sticking one of those to the bottom of a tank.

Why are heat pads so popular when heat tape is so much safer and cheaper too if I'm not mistaken?

Most people dont know what it is, where to get it, or how it works... LIKE ME lol :)

CAn u explain plz?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smynx

One question, bp_pandora: Are you using a glass or plastic cage? If you're using a glass tank, you may not want it to stick. I cracked a glass tank by sticking one of those to the bottom of a tank.

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Were you using a thermostat? Unfortunately, many heating pads can get hot enough to break glass and even burn a ball python.

Be careful!

-adam

wow, thanks guys, that was incredibly entertaining (especially kara and jack hammer). i have her in a glass tank and i've had a UTH forever with her without a problem. except now it won't stay on (no, it's not the original). i have enough inside the cage that i'm not worried about it burning her, that would be just about impossible. so i can really use electrical tape? which would work better, that or duct tape? i guess i could just try both. anyway, thanks a lot for all your input :)

i think plain old duct tape will work fine. just tape it up smoothly.
i would also invest in a thermostat, this will help solve/prevent alot of problems. i consider a thermostat a must have for my animals. it is our duty to provide the proper care for our animals, they are our captives. it may not be cost effective but i think all of our animals are luxuries and how many luxuries are cost effective!


vaughn

I have always used UTHs, but now that I know about the flexwatt stuff, that's what I plan on getting next. I have never had a problem with UTHs hooked to a rheostat.

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Short version of the long story is that the heatpad developed a hot spot, and basically cooked the inside of the snakes bowel.

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I wonder how that happened, without any external appearance of burn marks? It's sad that your snake had to go through that though.
The basic reason I prefer UTH heating for BPs rather than lamps, is the fact that they spend so much time in opaque hiding spots, on the cage floor. I would be afraid that the lamp's heat would not directly reach them, and this would worry me.

Anyone who has knowledge ragarding electronics; could an UTH hooked to a rheostat, still get hotter than you set it, and burn the cage/snake?

any type of regulating device can fail or break. nothing is 100% foolproof. some of the better thermostats have a feature that cuts off the power to the heat source.(helix,syder robotics,johnson controls). a rheostat or dimmer basically just varies the voltage and wattage to the heat source where as a thermostat actually regulates it. alot of people don't know this but the voltage in your house does vary (a very small amount) i don't think this is a problem but if voltage to a rheostat varies then so does the voltage coming out to the heat source. can you tell i'm a big fan of thermostats! lol. sometimes the wires or elements in the heat pad just break or ground/short out. it may be quality of materials or just wear and tear.


vaughn

For those of you considering heat tape, it helps to have someone who knows how to wire it show you how the first time. It's not rocket science but it can be a little tricky until you get the hang of it.

Also, heat tape MUST be used with a thermostat or rheostat to avoid overheating. And do not sandwich it between 2 solid surfaces.

K

There's a pet store not far from me, namely Markheim Pets, that has really nice reptile setups. They use the flexwatt and it is really immpressive the way they've hooked it up. It did help a lot, to see it actually up and running.
I am actually relying on my boyfriend to do all the technical stuff. I am not inclined in that direction! :)

This is a tip that someone gave to me a while back and it works really well.

A method to prevent tank cracking, over heating, and generally promote more even heat (without hot spots) is to not stick your UTH directly on the tank. Instead, stick the UTH to a ceramic or porcelain tile and slide the tile under one end of the tank.

The benefits are:

a) Inexpensive- an 8x10 inch tile is about $1.50 (USD)
b) Prevents a tank from cracking
c) It’s movable- can be used on future tanks
d) Prevents hot spots by allowing airflow between the pad and the glass.
e) It’s easier to clean the cage (moving it etc.)
f) It’s the poor mans thermostat/rheostat. You can lower or raise the tank to increase or decrease temps. All you need are a couple different sized blocks of wood to prop up the tank and/or the tile with the UTH.

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Originally Posted by Neumann

It’s the poor mans thermostat/rheostat

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Rheostats are under $10 ... why wouldn't you just spend the $8.50 extra for a little better control?

Even better, invest in a thermostat. Prices range from $30 - $130, but when talking about the proper care of a living creature I think it's worth it. It's certainly a far better choice than "winging it".

-adam

Dimmers are the worst possible control for the herp world. If your room is not stable temp wise youll see 5-20 degrees of thermal flux in the element. A thermostat is the only way to have the same temp where the probe is all the time. Im my opinon it would be impossible for a snake to be burned inside without have burns on the outside. You would have to use radiation or inject something under the fasha of the scales..... overhead lightning is perfect for the basking herps out there and snakes are not one of them. If you think of it the majority of animals that bask are from dry parts of the world hence the direct ight during the day....Just my 1.5 cents

I feel that a dimmer is a reasonable solution for someone saving up for a thermostat. They take a lot more work and at least daily monitoring, but it can be done (20 years ago we did not have thermostats for our tanks).

If I had it my way, I'd yell and scream at the top of my lungs until everyone that owned a herp went out and bought a thermostat. Unfortunately, I'd die hoarse.

-adam

Yup, I have to admit I have 3 dimmers in my herp room for the just incase deal but fortulatly havent had to use them yet...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Rheostats are under $10 ... why wouldn't you just spend the $8.50 extra for a little better control?

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Yea, I agree and I do both (use a tile and a rheostat) in our cages. Here's why:

In my limited experience some heat pads will develop hot spots which will go unnoticed if they don't happen to occur right where the probe is. This happened to me on a corn snake cage last summer. The probe on the pad read 85F but there was a hot spot of 130F that had gone undetected for awhile. When you have a little airflow between the UTH and the tank buttom, the heat seems to be a little more even. However, the 3 biggest advantages I see to placing the UTH on a tile and sliding it under the tank are:

1- It won't fall off the tank (original problem in this thread)
2- You don't have to fool with it when you clean the tank.
3- You can move it to another cage if you upgrade

I once saw a rack system setup in a similar way, where the heat pads were recessed on the rack shelf and the tubs were slid over them. I don't know why they didn't just use heat tape, it would have been a whole lot cheaper...

Quote:

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Even better, invest in a thermostat. Prices range from $30 - $130, but when talking about the proper care of a living creature I think it's worth it. It's certainly a far better choice than "winging it".

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I agree again- except for the $30 on/off style thermostat control systems. IMHO they're not a good solution in a drafty house that has a wide range of temperature fluctuations (unfortunately mine during winter-Alaska). They will go on and off constantly. I think the $130 proportional style ones, like the Helix, do a much better job.

You're only "winging it" if your not measuring your temps and doing something about them. I think the best investment a young (often poor) herper can make, so as not to wing it, is in a good dual indoor/outdoor thermometer. They're cheap and IMO an essental tool for good husbandry.

The cheap on/off tstats has a saet differintal and cannot be adjusted.. Rancos and Johnson Controls have a 1 degree dif and are adjustable... Just think about how much the unit costs to manufacture.. If they sell it for 30.00 then it is about 5 bucks to make maybe alittle more/less...kinda scary...

just cirious what do thermal burns look like on a BP

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=15764 This was using a Zoomed pad....

OH MY GOD!!! That is horrible! Im surprized that the snake made it through that. Having to have 6 inches of scales removed, wow i hurt just thinking about it.

OK i use a UTH that is stuck to the bottom of the tank and i also use a ceramic heater on top. From what i gather in this post it is bad to have thre UTH stuck directly to the bottom of the tank. But if i get a rheostat will that solve the problems of possible overheating?

And also i do definitly notice that over the tank heaters take a great deal of the humidity away from the tank, and i even have a warm are humidifier in the room with my BP. If i take the heat lamp away the humidity gets better but the UTH is not enought to keep the tank at the temp that it should be, so im kinda in a bind. What should i do to keep the heat up but stay away from heat lamps?

If this was already answered excuse my stupidity i did not catch it hehe

I wanna know how long it took for that to happen.......

The person said 6 days.....but it couldent have gotten that bad in only a day.I think maybe that snake was left in there alone for 6 days and thats eventually what happened to it.