Getting hatchlings to feed

I hatched a clutch of 6 bps on 7/12 and am having trouble getting them to feed. I only have access to F/T rats so I need them to go for F/T fuzzies. One of them has taken a fuzzy, but the rest have consistently refused. Some will strike but then let go of the rat. Any tips on getting them to eat? I really do not want to resort to force feeding but I am getting worried. I have noticed that heat really seems to be important for getting them to notice the rat, so I am trying to keep the rats very warm as I feed them.

I have always used live fuzzies for the first feedings. I think a lot of people on here do that as well. Are you unable to get live feeders cause of your location?

I personally haven't had success starting them on F/T but I've only had three clutches. I went over a month trying to get ours to eat before we gave them live hoppers and they all took them. From my little experience it's taken at least two live feedings before they switch to F/T

I have never tried F/T so I cannot speak from experience there. But I will say this, if you're having with multiple snakes from the same clutch eating, then I would look elsewhere for the problem (other than the snake itself). It could be a housing issue that is stopping them from eating or if could be the FT food. I'm willing to bet that's what it is. I start mine on mice then switch to rats. I've tried starting them on rat fuzzies and I've noticed they don't take then as readily as they do mice. But that's just my opinion. But they ALWAYS take mice, and take them quickly. I've only had one or two non eaters and that problem was fixed quickly.

You really need to feed them live for there first meals. Force feeding them causes them to much stress. Are you sure you can't get some live feeders. Things will go so much simpler, for you and them if you feed live to start off.

I start all mine on live hopper mice.

I've been able to start babies on F/T, but have had really lousy luck starting them on F/T rats. If you must start on thawed, hopper mice tend to work best.

What I do:
Give each baby a hide box. Wait a week following the first shed. Heat thawed hopper in the late evening. I use a light bulb, so the prey stays dry and retains maximum mouse smell. Place a mouse in each baby tub as quietly as possible, at the front of to the tub, a few inches from the baby (who is hopefully in its hide box) and walk away until morning. Zombie dancing just freaks them out.

If they're striking and letting go, they are striking defensively. Defensive strikers are great on live prey, which reacts appropriately, and clicks on the, "Oh, I'm supposed to eat you!" part of the baby's brain. F/T, not so much.

Regardless of whether or not a baby eats, it's not offered food again for a full week. Offering more often just scares the non-feeders. Deal wit h the babies as little as possible. If they don't eat the second time, I switch the bedding from paper towel to aspen and offer again -- F/T hopper, laid quietly in the cage, and wait until the next day. If they don't eat after four offerings, or about a month since they shed, I pick up live mice. I always plan for at least two live feedings.

Definitely do not force feed. It's not really fair to subject them to this, if they haven't even had a chance to try live mice. You have to understand that millions of years of evolution prepares these little guys to see, hunt and eat living, breathing, animals, with distinct thermal signatures and smells. Even adult or sub-adult BPs can have a hard time getting to f/t.

I would make ALL efforts to get some live hoppers. After a few live feedings I am sure you will have much better success.

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Originally Posted by maximum411

I hatched a clutch of 6 bps on 7/12 and am having trouble getting them to feed. I only have access to F/T rats so I need them to go for F/T fuzzies. One of them has taken a fuzzy, but the rest have consistently refused. Some will strike but then let go of the rat. Any tips on getting them to eat? I really do not want to resort to force feeding but I am getting worried. I have noticed that heat really seems to be important for getting them to notice the rat, so I am trying to keep the rats very warm as I feed them.

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Piss poor planning hatching a clutch without access to live feeders. Getting them started on f/t anything is tough, rats even tougher. Find live hopper mice.

Getting hatchlings started on f/t is easy, I have 6 bps that were started on f/t and have ate frozen all their life, the trick is how you offer them, fuzzy mice with the head dipped in hot water and offered in complete darkness I find gets the best response

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Originally Posted by Jamiesniper

Getting hatchlings started on f/t is easy, I have 6 bps that were started on f/t and have ate frozen all their life, the trick is how you offer them, fuzzy mice with the head dipped in hot water and offered in complete darkness I find gets the best response

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I probably shouldn't respond to this, but I feel you're giving people false hope that may result in a lot of frustration. Getting hatchlings started on f/t is not easy. Yes, it's possible, but to say it's easy is absolutely misleading. You were either lucky (my guess) or you apparently have some kind of magic mojo (not likely)...

For those without this magic mojo, it will be much easier to get them started on live hopper mice. Once they're eating, they're much easier to switch to whatever you choose...

I just must've been lucky, I guess all the other breeders here that don't breed their own feeders must just get lucky too

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Originally Posted by sho220

Piss poor planning hatching a clutch without access to live feeders. Getting them started on f/t anything is tough, rats even tougher. Find live hopper mice.

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Wow, totally a piss poor response. It isn't easy finding live feeders everywhere. I just started 5 hatchlings on f/t hopper mice and I will share my method. Put the mice in a plastic ziplock bag and submerge them into hot water to thaw (not the top of the bag). Once they are thawed through (squishy) spread them out on a towel and take a blow dryer to them. heat them up flipping them occasionally to heat evenly. stop every so often to take a reading with your IR thermometer. Heat them up to about 100 degrees. Now take your tongs and grab the back of the hopper by the skin between the shoulder blades. It should be dangling horizontal. Now hit the head one more quick time with the blow dryer and then hang the hopper in the tub. Let them come out to check it out. don't wiggle it or push it in their face. They will either grab it or turn around and move away. If they move away then slowly pull the hopper out and try a couple days later in the same way. If they do wrap it up then grab the back of the hopper and give it a little wiggle to simulate the hopper dying. I feed mine middle of the day under bright lights and they have never refused a meal once I got them going. Let me know if you have any more issues. You can buy hopper mice online or your local pet store can usually order any size mouse you want from their supplier for you.

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Wow, totally a piss poor response. It isn't easy finding live feeders everywhere. I just started 5 hatchlings on f/t hopper mice and I will share my method. Put the mice in a plastic ziplock bag and submerge them into hot water to thaw (not the top of the bag). Once they are thawed through (squishy) spread them out on a towel and take a blow dryer to them. heat them up flipping them occasionally to heat evenly. stop every so often to take a reading with your IR thermometer. Heat them up to about 100 degrees. Now take your tongs and grab the back of the hopper by the skin between the shoulder blades. It should be dangling horizontal. Now hit the head one more quick time with the blow dryer and then hang the hopper in the tub. Let them come out to check it out. don't wiggle it or push it in their face. They will either grab it or turn around and move away. If they move away then slowly pull the hopper out and try a couple days later in the same way. If they do wrap it up then grab the back of the hopper and give it a little wiggle to simulate the hopper dying. I feed mine middle of the day under bright lights and they have never refused a meal once I got them going. Let me know if you have any more issues. You can buy hopper mice online or your local pet store can usually order any size mouse you want from their supplier for you.

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Thanks Brian, that was a very useful post for everyone having feeding issues with hatchlings. I must try your method. :)

Thanks everyone, especially Brian (and no thanks to sho220). I was able to locate a store that sold me fuzzy mice (well actually gave them to me for free because they could "get in trouble"). Four of the hatchlings ate fuzzies last night, and I saved the remaining two for another attempt tonight. Brian, I will have to try your method for the second feeding! I just don't want to get them used to live because I have several breeders who were addicted and switching them over has been a huge pain. I also don't think live feeding is very ethical so I only do it when a snake will eat nothing else.


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I wouldn't try again with the ones that refused.. Give it a few days... Over offering will lead to more refusals

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Your welcome! Snakes get conditioned on their eating habits from day 1. If your purchasing a yearling from a big breeder at 250 grams, it's because it was "maintenance fed" aka fed just enough to not die or get sick and save them time and money. I believe this is why so many ball pythons are finicky eaters, because they have been conditioned to eat live every 3 weeks or so. I feed my hatchlings f/t every three days and they are hungry still. They have went from 70 grams to 150 in a month. I tell the people that buy my snakes to feed them day 1 because they will eat whatever you put in front of them. They all ate f/t right out of the shipping box. I feed my adult females every 5 days and males every 7 days. I recommend buying from a smaller breeder who doesn't maintenance feed and to ask to see the feeding record card. Hell I even take video of my hatchlings eating f/t and send it to the customer before shipping. Quality clean genetics and customer service are key in this hobby/business. Sorry to go on a rant, lol.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

I wouldn't try again with the ones that refused.. Give it a few days... Over offering will lead to more refusals

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Well said. I'd like to ad that I think heat really has a lot to do with it. I've put a f/t hopper in at 95 degrees and had the hatchling check it out and turn around with no interest. I hit it with the blow dryer for a min and got it up to 105 and BAM the same hatchling grabbed it two minutes after refusing it. Once they got used to eating on my schedule the temp became less important to them. So maybe you should try hitting your live fuzzy with a blow dryer for a second just to heat up its surface temp enough to get a strike.

F/T is great if you have the ability and time to dangle mice in front of 200 hatchlings. I find live hoppers for the first few meals gives them a little confidence and it's easy to switch to rat fuzzies. Save some nasty, dirty, smelly mouse bedding and toss the rat fuzzies in there for an hour before offering. Its an easy transition.

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Originally Posted by maximum411

I also don't think live feeding is very ethical so I only do it when a snake will eat nothing else.

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Hate to break it to you but why when would you pick a pet that you very well know might only eat live AND breed then too?? SMH

Yeah my breeder animals did come from a large breeder (who will not be named- he's a great breeder but obviously does not have the time to feed his animals f/t, which I understand). I have a normal pet bp I got off of Craigslist before I started breeding, and she is an incredible feeder- eats f/t every five days and has never refused a meal. When I put her in her feeding container, she gets into striking position before she even sees the rat. If only my current breeders were like that... that's the kind of feeding response I'm aiming for in the breeders I hold back from this next generation though.

And you're not "breaking" anything to me. As you can see, I am fine feeding live when it is the only option but why you would rather deal with live animals who poop, smell, require housing and care, and suffer when they are killed when you could instead have a freezer full of humanely killed frozen rats is beyond me, unless you are a large scale breeder (which I am not). I will feed live when necessary and one of my breeders eats live for every meal, but it seems a bit strange to me to care so much about the treatment of the snakes and not at all about their prey. They're animals too. Again, I do both because feeding f/t is not possible will all snakes, but given the choice, I will always choose the easier, cleaner, safer, more humane option.


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I didn't have much trouble feeding F/T to my hatchlings (and these are my first 3 clutches ever). I get that people do different things, but I don't understand why it seems so frowned upon when some want to feed their hatchlings F/T. I had some that struck right away and some that had to be worked with a bit. I'm absolutely not an expert, but it's worth it to me to have them eating F/T from the start when that's the plan for them down the road.

I'm not knocking what others do... I'm just not getting the "you have to feed hatchlings live" thing. I like that there are many right ways to do things in this hobby. I just find it disappointing when some put others down for doing something different. I completely understand what Corey said about the 200 hatchlings... but for someone with 20 or less, I don't believe it's that hard to feed F/T (if that's what you choose to do).

Best of luck to everyone and their different methods in this hobby. I think the most important part is having the pride that your little babies are eating and getting bigger and stronger with every meal :-) .

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Originally Posted by maximum411

...and suffer when they are killed when you could instead have a freezer full of humanely killed frozen rats... They're animals too. ...I will always choose the easier, cleaner, safer, more humane option.

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Please keep in mind that these are all your opinions. Pythons are incredibly efficient at what they do and their prey typically suffers cardiac arrest and dies within seconds of being constricted. Just because you didn't see the f/t prey die doesn't mean that it was any more or less humane. Suggesting that those who responsibly feed live don't respect their prey couldn't be further from the truth. Feeding live can be just as easy, clean, and safe as feeding f/t - maybe not for you, but certainly for some. Your choice is just that - your choice. I would simply recommend that it's based on as much factual information as possible when it comes to your animals.

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

I'm just not getting the "you have to feed hatchlings live" thing. I like that there are many right ways to do things in this hobby. I just find it disappointing when some put others down for doing something different.

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I don't see that anyone's said anyone has to do anything (other that not being too quick to force feed) or put anyone down. If anything, the ethics of those who feed live have been questioned. When the options in the OP were presented as f/t or force feed, the better alternative (for the animal) was given to feed live. Force feeding should only be a last resort option - not the second choice. Also, feeding hatchlings f/t isn't exactly "doing something different". There are plenty who do so with great success. What is different is choosing to put personal bias ahead of what is best for the animal, and that I will never agree with.

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

I think the most important part is having the pride that your little babies are eating and getting bigger and stronger with every meal

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Take the pride part out of it and I agree with you. ;) I think the most important part is that your little babies are eating and getting bigger and stronger with every meal. :)

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

I didn't have much trouble feeding F/T to my hatchlings (and these are my first 3 clutches ever). I get that people do different things, but I don't understand why it seems so frowned upon when some want to feed their hatchlings F/T. .

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Its not frowned upon. What is unethical would be making the choice to breed ANY animals but not prepared for possible outcome.
I don't care what or how you get them eating but "you" made a choice to create and might not be able to get a food source that might be needed?!?!
That in itself should be a deciding factor. Just my thoughts.

I noticed u said feeding tub. Are you trying to feed the hatchlings in a different tub?

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The feeding tub is for the well-trained adult because she's used to it.

And I think it's pretty dishonest to suggest that prey constricted by a python doesn't suffer. I don't see how you can hear them scream when they are grabbed and kick for a minute afterward and come to the conclusion that they're not suffering. I do think there is a mental resistance to feeling as if you're responsible for an animal's suffering, because nobody wants to feel like a bad person, which is understandable. However, it is better to acknowledge that yes, being constricted by a python is not the most humane death, but sometimes it is necessary to keep the snakes healthy. People need to be adults and acknowledge what they're doing rather than bash anyone who suggests that f/t is a more humane alternative to live feeding. I am not suggesting that anyone change their own feeding methods, but just providing justification for my own. It's pretty well established that f/t is preferable to live when possible (keyword when possible). It may be easier to get untrained ball pythons to eat live, but that doesn't mean f/t isn't superior to live feeding in many other ways.


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As a side note, I have watched many live rodents killed by snakes, and I have worked in a lab and watched many rodents killed by CO2 euthanasia, and it's pretty clear that gassing is the less stressful of the two.


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Train...... LoL

Gassing can be more inhumane when not done correctly too. ;)
We can agree to disagree and I will remain unethical as you call myself and many others :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

I don't see that anyone's said anyone has to do anything (other that not being too quick to force feed) or put anyone down. If anything, the ethics of those who feed live have been questioned. When the options in the OP were presented as f/t or force feed, the better alternative (for the animal) was given to feed live. Force feeding should only be a last resort option - not the second choice. Also, feeding hatchlings f/t isn't exactly "doing something different". There are plenty who do so with great success. What is different is choosing to put personal bias ahead of what is best for the animal, and that I will never agree with.

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I'm not sure it's been in this thread as much as I've seen it in other threads, but I have seen it stated many times that feeding hatchlings live is the only way to do it.

I agree with you about putting the animal first, no matter what your beliefs. I'm not trying to bash anyone in this thread at all. I've gotten some GREAT advice and learned very much from this forum. I was just giving my opinion (as a non-expert... just as a guy that is lucky maybe? :) ).

I do think "force feeding" is wrongly used in place of "assist feeding" sometimes. I've assist fed a few times where I've taken a non-eater and just barely put a F/T rat into the mouth and had a snake coil and eat immediately (and then after that the snake would strike and eat completely on it's own). I don't think that it's something that everyone should do, but I've been successful with some non eaters. As far as force feeding goes, my opinion is that is a giant no-no as a ton can go wrong.

The live vs F/T is a completely personal choice and that's not a debate I want to be in. Both can be successful, but it's not my business to say either way... everyone can justify what they do at the end of the day, and it's too easy to judge others when you want to have your own opinions heard and accepted as correct... and that will never happen with everyone I'm sure ;) .

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Take the pride part out of it and I agree with you. ;) I think the most important part is that your little babies are eating and getting bigger and stronger with every meal. :)

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Fair enough :) .

Anyone who questions the morality of feeding snakes live rodents better be themselves on a raw vegan diet, otherwise the hypocrisy meter is going to explode.

From my experiences, feeder rodents sometimes have a much better end of life than their counterparts in biomedical research. I induce EAE (Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis), essentially multiple sclerosis, in mice by the hundreds every month, for our research projects. These mice suffer hind limb paralysis and for weeks drag themselves around by their front limbs, until we euthanize and harvest tissue for biochemical analysis. This isn't even the worse possible fate for a research animal. Point is, feeding live simulates nature, albeit not 100%, but it is a much better end than the majority of rodents bred.

The key is to maintaining suitable and ethical living situations for them until they meet their ultimate demise.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Its not frowned upon. What is unethical would be making the choice to breed ANY animals but not prepared for possible outcome.
I don't care what or how you get them eating but "you" made a choice to create and might not be able to get a food source that might be needed?!?!
That in itself should be a deciding factor. Just my thoughts.

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I agree with you. I have both live and frozen rats (and Asfs) here. I haven't needed to feed live to any of my snakes, but they come first and I always have a backup. I don't think that is unethical (and I'm not saying you were telling me that, but I have thought out all of these scenarios before I tried my hand at breeding). I prefer to feed my snakes F/T, but that's just my choice. I've learned a few things, had some problems here and there, but I think I've got it down okay.

I will say that I think some people feed live because it's easier for them and they might not weigh all the possible outcomes of that. Either way, I'm comfortable with how I do things, and I have reasons thought out for them (for my situation). We all have our "right ways", and I try to respect everyone's choices... as long as they value their animals and put them first.

It's all good with me ;) .

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Originally Posted by Creepy Alien

I will say that I think some people feed live because it's easier for them and they might not weigh all the possible outcomes of that. Either way, I'm comfortable with how I do things, and I have reasons thought out for them (for my situation). We all have our "right ways", and I try to respect everyone's choices... as long as they value their animals and put them first.

It's all good with me ;) .

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And that I can respect.
F/T was cool with less than 10 snakes. Now with over 50 all eating different sizes its not easy. Helps that I saw a long time ago that I would need to start breeding my own feeders too. The worst part of F/T is when the time comes that a rodents life was lost and in the trash because no one would eat it. In my case it goes back to the tub it came out of to live another week. :gj:

I'm always a bit surprised to hear reptile owners that feel it is inhumane to feed live. These are predator animals, not goldfish. Yes, I know captive animals don't "need" to hunt and don't have to be fed live but these are snakes. They eat rodents. They are perfectly suited above just about any darn critter out there to find, kill, and consume their single meal in one go. They are perfect. Have we become so far removed from our own food and nature that we are disgusted by what nature intended? I hunt and feel sadness everytime I have brought death to a hillside, a foggy ridge, or a quiet draw. However, that is replaced by a respect for that animal and what it will provide my family. We need to get in touch with our food, just as a snake does.

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Originally Posted by maximum411

People need to be adults and acknowledge what they're doing rather than bash anyone who suggests that f/t is a more humane alternative to live feeding.

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I certainly consider myself to be an adult, and a well-educated one at that. Unfortunately, it was at this point in your reply that I realized that none of that matters and anything substantive I would provide to clarify my position would fall on deaf ears. If "grow up and agree with me" is the best you can come up with, I've probably typed too much already.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

And that I can respect.
F/T was cool with less than 10 snakes. Now with over 50 all eating different sizes its not easy. Helps that I saw a long time ago that I would need to start breeding my own feeders too. The worst part of F/T is when the time comes that a rodents life was lost and in the trash because no one would eat it. In my case it goes back to the tub it came out of to live another week. :gj:

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I completely understand and respect that. I genuinely love my rats (not my ASFs ;-) ), and seeing wasted lives isn't very nice... not even evil little ASFs ;-) . I bought a boa who has completely fixed that problem for me :-) .

I really did not come on here to get into a long debate about the merits of f/t vs. live, so this will be the last response I post on this thread. In any case, there is nothing "natural" about placing a domesticated rodent in a small cage with a captive raised snake until the snake eats it, or for that matter raising color mutants that would never survive in the wild in artificially heated plastic tubs and incubating their eggs. Even if that were in any way "natural," who ever said natural is right? If being natural is so important, you shouldn't raise snakes in captivity at all, and probably shouldn't use vaccines or antibiotics on yourself. In the wild whatever helps a species survive will happen, but as reasoning humans, we can make choices about what happens in captivity. I always place the health and well-being of all animals that I take care of first, and that includes feeder rodents as well as snakes.


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Now don't get snippy (snake pun and only intended to bring about a smile).....

We are way past keeping things natural. As long as you are feeding your animals and respecting the prey they feed on whether it be f/t or live or even freshy killed as I have had recent experience, that is what matters. Doing the best with what you have, caring for your animals the best you can.

Live or not live, humane and this or that, that is all just discussion and on the side.

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Originally Posted by maximum411

I always place the health and well-being of all animals that I take care of first, and that includes feeder rodents as well as snakes.

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We can finally agree on one thing here. All our animals get better care and are taken care of before my wife and myself, yes even the roaches.:gj:
On that note Im taking my ball and going home too.

Maybe I'm a bit late with my post, but I was offline for a while. It's not always a question of ethics. I'm in the situation where I don't have choice, and I MUST feed F/T. In my country the live feeding is illegal. Unless I drive to an other country to buy some live mice or rats, or I try to find a dealer in my area and buy the little rodents like illegal drugs, I cannot get just frozen. Easy or not, the hatchlings must start with them.

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Originally Posted by Felidae

Maybe I'm a bit late with my post, but I was offline for a while. It's not always a question of ethics. I'm in the situation where I don't have choice, and I MUST feed F/T. In my country the live feeding is illegal. Unless I drive to an other country to buy some live mice or rats, or I try to find a dealer in my area and buy the little rodents like illegal drugs, I cannot get just frozen. Easy or not, the hatchlings must start with them.

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Where do you live if you don't mind me asking?

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Originally Posted by Jcash34

Where do you live if you don't mind me asking?

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Switzerland