Will be first time snake owner, hello all

Hello all. Will be a first time owner Monday. Going to the local reptile store Monday to order my first snake. The store owner said to just tell him which morph I wanted and he'd let me know the price, so any suggestions on that would be awesome. Just having a hard time choosing between a red tailed boa or a ball python. The ball python is a bit more docile according to the reptile store owner but figured I'd see what you all thought would be a good first snake. I've been wanting one for so long now but haven't been able to get one because my family has been scared of them while I was growing up so I'm excited I'm finally able to get one for myself.

Just wanted a bit of information and see which you thought would be best for a beginner. My main question is food, the store owner said Ball Pythons preferred live meals, that's the only thing that freaks me out, live rats. Will they even bother with a dead rat or is it only live they go after? The store owner made it out like it was only live and nothing else, but everywhere else I've checked says it's safer to go the dead route to prevent any damage to the snake, how hard is it to get Ball Pythons or Red Tailed Boas to eat dead meals or do they not care and just go about it like any other meal?

So which would be better, or are neither of them particularity good for beginners? I'm after something that's docile, doesn't get that big, maybe 3-4ft max fully grown. And something that doesn't mind being held a lot, because what's the point of having a snake if you don't hold it and all. Like, have it on the desk while I'm at the computer and what not or just walking around with it in a pet store or something.

Also, any of you with dogs in the house, do they freak out around your snakes just looking at them or they don't care?

Thanks for the help.

You are deffinitly gonna want a Royal!!
I will try to answer all ur questions,but feel free to PM me if needed.
Royals are best off learning to feed on frozen.(read up on how) I feed mine on live,but it is very risky!!
Royals are very docile and great for first time. Remember tho, as far as letting them just have free range.....they DONT WANT IT!!! They want to be confined in a 'terarium' that suits their size. (read up on the proper size)
They can be picky eaters and 'take breaks' in feeding.

I cant remember any other of ur questions,so feel free to PM ME with anyting further.



Brian

I went with royals as my first choice and now I have four and counting. Like stated before they are picky eaters, dealing with a picky eater now. Just search the web about them, internet has pretty much everything you need. As far as morphs go if you don't know what you want I would browse world of ball pythons.

Karnage Royals
1.0 Yellow Belly
0.1 Bumble Bee
1.0 Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied

Wasn't going to let any snake I get be 'free range', they'll definitely have a terrarium. I was just after something that didn't mind being held and what not. I was also looking at things like a separate feeding tank and some people were saying that's a bad idea because it makes the snake more aggressive and prone to biting you when moving it back to their actual habitat tank. And I have seen that some ball pythons go months without eating, so I know that's normal just need to watch em and make sure they're not losing weight, etc. The store owner said they can do forced feedings if it comes down to that but he said they very rarely have to do that.

What are Royals? Royal Ball Python or Royal Red Tailed Boa? I'm going to assume you mean a Royal Ball Python. Correct me if I'm assuming wrong. How expensive are Royals roughly? The store owner was telling me a ball python plus tank and everything would run me about $200 to get started and I can go from there as I get more experience with them and as they grow.

And are all ball pythons nocturnal? I don't want to have to adjust my sleeping pattern just to be able to see my pet active and what not. Or is that what a day/night light combo does, promote activity in the tank?

Do the prices go up the older the snake is or what? Some of the prices I've been seeing for Royals are $300+. The reptile store I visited had a female ball python for $80, but was older then what I wanted. I want to get it while it's young so it would 'bond' to me if that makes sense.

Royal Pythons are just another name for Ball Pythons. It really depends on where you come from but it's the same snake. And I think by, free range, he meant, don't put your new baby snake in a huge enclosure. Balls can get stressed out and are not as active as other snakes. They are pretty docile and calm when held but for the most part they just like to curl up and hide. They also stay a nice size if you don't want a 'big' snake. However if you're looking for a bit bigger and more active I'd take a look at boas. They get much bigger in comparison but not so much that one person couldn't handle them. They have amazing temperaments and move around a bit more. I currently only have ball pythons atm and I love them but I do miss having my red tail boas. My boas never actually bit me but were pretty nippy when they were babes. All baby snakes can be nippy at first though. Good luck in your decision, both are amazing snakes. Ball pythons are great if you want a bit smaller, more docile snake, and boas are great if you looking for more active and a bigger size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BryceE

Wasn't going to let any snake I get be 'free range', they'll definitely have a terrarium. I was just after something that didn't mind being held and what not. I was also looking at things like a separate feeding tank and some people were saying that's a bad idea because it makes the snake more aggressive and prone to biting you when moving it back to their actual habitat tank. And I have seen that some ball pythons go months without eating, so I know that's normal just need to watch em and make sure they're not losing weight, etc. The store owner said they can do forced feedings if it comes down to that but he said they very rarely have to do that.

What are Royals? Royal Ball Python or Royal Red Tailed Boa? I'm going to assume you mean a Royal Ball Python. Correct me if I'm assuming wrong. How expensive are Royals roughly? The store owner was telling me a ball python plus tank and everything would run me about $200 to get started and I can go from there as I get more experience with them and as they grow.

And are all ball pythons nocturnal? I don't want to have to adjust my sleeping pattern just to be able to see my pet active and what not. Or is that what a day/night light combo does, promote activity in the tank?

Do the prices go up the older the snake is or what? Some of the prices I've been seeing for Royals are $300+. The reptile store I visited had a female ball python for $80, but was older then what I wanted. I want to get it while it's young so it would 'bond' to me if that makes sense.

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I'll try to answer as much as I know.

I personally feed in the tank and haven't had any aggressive behavior yet.
all ball pythons are nocturnal some come out during the day some don't. I personally just have a heat light on 12hrs a day. As far as pricing goes, it all depends where you live at and the morph you want. I would suggest try searching online for some breeders to get your snake from, if you don't mind waiting for it to get shipped.
Yes it's a royal ball python.
and I completely understand about getting it while it's young.


Hoped I helped a little bit, I'm fairly new to this my self and still learning.

Karnage Royals
1.0 Yellow Belly
0.1 Bumble Bee
1.0 Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied

I'm going to go back to the reptile store since it's local and talk with the owner more, he seems knowledgeable, which is a good thing I think lol. He mentioned he's got over 100 ball pythons/boas so not sure if that means he knows what he's doing or just doing it to breed and sell em off or something.

And every snake will need a heating element under the tank correct or is it just some types? Getting excited over this already. I'm definitely going to have to have one shipped, but that will mean I have time to setup the tank and let it 'dry' from everything and the first wash, etc before putting the snake in there.

So would the easier route be frozen/thawed then since I'm new to this and to protect the snake or should I go live and get over a fear of handling live rodents lol.

@Tash, thanks for mentioning that about the ball pythons vs boas. I'm leaning towards a red tailed boa now just for the activity you mentioned.

Yes under tank heaters are needed for belly heat and digestion but make sure you get a thermostat to hook it up to! It is a must so you can control Temps and prevent a bad burn if the heater malfunctions. Keep it on the hot side of your enclosure. Royals are great but I just love boas. It sounds silly but I love the shape of their heads and the look of their eyes. Very pretty markings too, even on the normals. Royals are more of a beginner snake but boas an be just as great if you do your homework and know what you're getting into. Good luck, can't wait to see what you choose.

If you're worried about live rats, I only feed mine frozen/thawed rodents, live is hard to get in Ireland unless you breed your own or know someone that breeds feeders.

Ball pythons can be picky eaters at times but that's just how they are, I find with mine that they eat really well for a good while then they go on a fast then when they decide to start eating again they absolutely pound down food, but don't let that put you off.

Under tank heaters are best but as Tash says, you NEEDa thermostat, some people will say you don't, some say you do... I've seen some of the burns that bps have got from people not using thermostats and although stats might seem expensive, they are a hell of a lot cheaper than the cost of vet treatment for burns, so it's a vital piece of equipment :)

Hopefully this helps in answering some of your questions :)

OOOKAY. Opened a new tab to type in to answer all your ?'s. Pardon the long post :cool:

Size. RTBs are going to be bigger both in girth and probably in length. The BP is smaller and a male would be smaller than a female.

Food. I would argue that MOST BPs can be fed f/t. I had a few issues with my girl when she was younger but once we figured out her quirk (if she used the bathroom it had to be cleaned before she would eat again) it was not a problem. And yes, f/t (frozen thawed) is the safest route for the snake. RTBs are known to be more of the garbage disposal type in that they will almost always eat.

A male BP or a Corn are my recommendations for a first snake. Males will stay smaller. Reasons I would not recommend a RTB is that they get bigger (thus bigger enclosure) and they require a higher level of humidity which I would not try to create in a fish tank type enclosure. They are a mid level experience snake in my opinion.

Handling is something which will come with time. You have to build up trust. And handling is a no-go unless the baby is eating for you. Food = more important. I do take my girl to her breeder's place to pick up her ratcicles. She hangs out while I watch shows sometimes. We have worked it up to maybe 2 hours max a day. Now that will need to depend on your snake's stress level. There are some signs and you will learn to read when you snake is relaxed or anxious. Corns are more active and would make better animals for you to watch, and boas do more too. BPs are the pet rock of the snake world :P they are chill and like to stay in their hiding caves.

As for dogs, umm, just don't. I have very well behaved cats which are semi trained and I still do not allow them near reptiles. They may ignore it but they may try to get it and hurt it, and that would be bad. If the dog looking at the enclosure bothered the snake you can cover the sides with paper on the outside.

POST 2

I would say in like 95% of cases with BPs and RTBs you should not find cage aggression to be an issue. Moving the snake to feed it is just a stressful experience for the snake. I the case of retics and such it can be a problem as they are more territorial. I would hook train a RTB anyway.

It isn't exactly "normal" for BPs to go off feed. In our temperature controlled environments they do not have the nature induced need to fast really, though many do when being bred. But yes, you keep an eye on their weight, offer food on feeding day only, and just keep an eye on them.

Royals yes, are BPs. What all did the guy tell you that you would need? There is a link here

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures!

which details what you will need. You miiight be able to keep it under $200 but... you don't want to limit what you need to get to keep the animal happy and healthy, ya know? Heating element is necessary most of the time. Along with a thermostat to monitor and control the temp. Some UTHs get upwards of 100+ degrees :O Hot enough to burn a snake badly, causing some serious health issues. I would suggest getting a tank all set up (I would get an enclosure with doors that open on the side, not the top, if you can. Or at least not a screen top) a week in advance so you can keep an eye on temps and make sure everything is OK for your new friend.

BPs are nocturnal, although they do very little moving. I sometimes "catch my girl in the act" of moving from one side to the other or getting a drink. Day/night combo is not needed for any of these snakes really. As long as they get some feel of passing time by ambient light from your room, it will not matter much to them. Unlike lizards, they don't need the UVB rays to produce calcium and keep them healthy. Any light pointed into the enclosure is almost exclusively for your benefit.

Prices go up depending on the morph (if you think $300 is a lot, you need to keep looking :rolleyes:) and if a snake is a proven breeder which has successfully bred that adds to value as well.

Feel free to check up on your guy on Fauna Classifieds. See if he's on there. But also don't be afraid to ask allllll the questions of him. I do. If he has a question which he cannot answer to your satisfaction, he may not be your best choice. He may also just be selling them, not breeding, but I would still be cautious. You want to acquire a healthy animal.

Because I can't tell how young you may be, I will simply end with this. Remember that these animals can live in excess of 20+ years, during which they will need some of your time and money. Make sure you're ready for the long term commitment ;)

If any more questions, ask away :gj:

Thanks for the responses. I'm well aware of the time/money investment just didn't want to start out with dumping like $2k+ into it at the beginning you know? The guy at the reptile store basically said $200 for the equipment, excluding snake. Under tank heater, heat lamp, thermostat, etc. As for the dogs, they're not allowed in my bedroom which is where the snake will be most of the time. And for you asking my age, I'm 27 btw.

I'll be going to talk to the store owner a bit more tomorrow and get some more information on him and see what all he knows, etc. And if everything seems good with him hopefully order the snake and get the equipment that day so I have time to set it up and monitor it before getting the snake in there.

Can't edit my previous post now, but one more question.

How young should I get a ball python? I don't want one thats older, but after reading some more on em how young is to young?

Most would say, and I agree that they need to have a few meals down them. As an example, the guy I picked up this weekend has had four meals and a shed twice. He's still pretty young at 95g, but an established feeder. That made me comfortable enough to bring him home.

Dave

I second what Dave said, and I feel like that should be a general rule with all snakes, but ball pythons especially.

If you are worried about the live feeding buy one that has been eating f/t....ball pythons IMO are pet rocks. Don't get me wrong I love all of my balls but for a first snake do you want something that is very skittish and hide 95% of the time or something that will cruise the cage and explore. Boas are garbage disposals and I have never had a single skipped meal with my 4 boas...all pound f/t. If your wanting a snake that will interact more with you I would go boa...if the size is an issue get a male or one of the smaller locality boas. Last note I would skip the fish tank you are wanting a snake not fish right so why would u buy a fish tank... I would suggest a simple tub setup for a hatchling boa or ball. It way easier to maintain proper husbandry....i see it so many time people throw more money and time trying to dial in a fish tank then just buying the right setup from the start tubs are cheap and you can upgrade to a bigger one as the snake grows without breaking the bank until the snake it ready for a forever cage like animal plastics or other similar enclosure. If ur handy and have the tools you can build nice cages for 1/3 price. And the single most important supply for the snake is the thermostat i highly recommend a herpstat or VE... my 2 cents

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Age doesn't matter so much as being an established feeder, but make sure that you put the snake in a small environment if it's a baby and don't use half log hides. One of my dogs is afraid of my snakes and one doesn't care, but I wouldn't let them interact even if they were good with each other. A herpstat is a good thermostat. Don't skimp on the thermostat! It is the most important piece of equipment! The thermostat alone will likely be around one hundred dollars, but it is necessary. I would agree with getting a tub instead of a fish tank. They work nicely.

One thing. Even if you're creeped out by live feeding, you must be willing to feed live if there's a feeding issue with frozen thawed while your snake is young. It's ok when the snake is older to skip some meals, but not if it stops eating as a baby.

Just creeped out with live feeding now, but that can always change. It's not like I'm going to let the snake starve just because I'm afraid of a live rat. I'm not that cruel =/. A friend of mine didn't like feeding live so he just dropped it into the cage from the box the rat came in, never had to touch it. Then he started actually playing with it and goes on from there. Just watched a youtube video of someone feeding his red tailed boa a live rat with tweezers lol.

The only reason I was going with a ball python first was because it was a very docile snake. I didn't want to get to deep that I couldn't manage if that makes sense. And about the tubs vs tanks, I keep seeing all these people putting snakes in tubs on youtube and to me it seems like the snake would be happier in something that mimicked their natural habitat. Nothing a lot of time and googling and reading up here can't fix with regards to properly regulating the heat/cold. And yes I'm aware a good thermostat/hydrometer will cost a pretty good amount.

Hydrometers are cheap. Ball pythons in the wild love in termite mounds and feel secure in small tighter spaces. I keep my yong boas in racks as well because they work so well at holding the correct husbandry and your not buying tank after tank as they grow tubs are very cheap. The best option if you want a display cage is to buy and animal plastics type but a hatching bp won't feel as secure in an adult size tank as it would in a small cage/ tub..

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If you're willing to feed live and understand that all live feeding must be supervised, you should be fine.

If you want to mimic a natural environment, you can. There is nothing to prevent you from putting realistic hides, substrate and plants in a tub. Remember, they aren't normally seen in the wild, so a tank is actually not as good as a tub. A tank is completely clear, but a tub is harder to see through and will make them feel more secure. Animal Plastics cages are very expensive, but they're good for display, as frostysBP mentioned. Just some food for thought.

My 6 ft female Boa is just a docile as my BP, maybe more so. Considering the previous owners had problems with their toddlers pulling her out of her tub and dragging her around the house! :O


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I was going to get an open from front enclosure and was going to cover all the sides except the opening like I've seen in a few threads here. Figured that would help them feel more secure. And while I do want a more active snake like a boa, I don't think it's for me just starting out and plus they get huge so not sure if that's the type of snake for me being a first timer to the snake world. Still going to talk to the guy tomorrow to get some more information from him and what not before I actually make a decision.

Not berating you for you age, I hope you know. Feel free to bring back his advice and run it by folks here if you want. We'll give you experienced and honest thoughts :gj:

Insomnia sucks. 4:34am here.

I was planning on running what the guy said past everyone here just to make sure he does indeed know what he's talking about/doing. But I feel like he does but you never know. After seeing pictures of those UTH burns on snakes I'm really trying to do my research on that and prevent that from happening to mine. Still not sure on ball python or boa though, even though boas get a lot bigger, it takes what like 15 years to do that and from the experience I get early on I feel like would be enough at that later stage. And yes, I'm aware all snakes live like 20+ years well taken care of.

It really comes down to personal preference I think. Which is hard when you don't have experience yet with either. Ball pythons are definitely the ideal beginner snake in my opinion, require smaller living spaces because of their smaller size and tend to be super manageable and docile (apparently mine didn't get that memo lol). But what you said is true, you'll have this snake for a long time so it's important to get what you want within reason. I think you've already gotten all the pros and cons of both. I'm assuming the guy has his snakes at the store your visiting? See if he will let you check out and handle both just to get a feel. I know they are baby's so it's hard to judge now, but sometimes when you see the animals you just know which one will be right. If you're worried you can always start with a Ball and after giving it some time pick up a Boa. I'm totally in the Boa camp though, just love them, so it's hard not push them on people because in the end, it's what they want.

The only balls and boas he has at the store at kinda grown. His personal snakes are at his home. I guess a grown ball or boa would be a better idea how manageable they are. And boas won't be as finicky to feed as balls would be. I also have two indoor dogs I need to look after as well, not saying they'll be out together or even in the same room and what not, just something to think about.

How much of an escape artist are boas though? Them being active makes me think they're going to try and get out a lot.

I've never actually had a snake escape on me. I've always been very careful about locking everything up but then again I'm paranoid so I always have to check everything twice. I will say that ball pythons can be just as clever when it comes to escaping, so from what I've been told/read, they are equally matched in this department. I can't comment for sure though. Just be extra careful and you shouldn't have an escapee. I also can't comment much on the dog situation other then keep them separated best you can.

Woo hoo for insomnia!!!! 4:32am here in Kansas. :weirdface:sigh2: They both can be good at escaping, I would say that boas are better just because they get bigger and therefore could put more force behind it. That's one reason why I don't like the screen lids; the locks are meh at best. And yup, Tash is right, separation is the ideal. Safest for all involved. :gj:

IF he has both kinds of snakes in his shop, even if it isn't the specific snake you would end up with, I would say hold a couple adults, one of each species. That will give you a feel for size and strength. And let you get associated with the way they behave in general. I have yet to convince myself to have a snake shipped to me, in that I want them for their personality and temperament just as much as their beauty. I like to hold them and get to "know" them a little before I bring them home. Where are you located? Folks might be able to suggest a breeder in your area.

He's got both, females of them though. I'll probably get a male just for the sake of them being slightly smaller. And I'm in North Carolina, not that many places around here that I've noticed that breed.

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Originally Posted by BryceE

He's got both, females of them though. I'll probably get a male just for the sake of them being slightly smaller. And I'm in North Carolina, not that many places around here that I've noticed that breed.

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I'm also in North Carolina, out here in Fayetteville there is no pet shops that breed. That's why I get mine from offline

Karnage Royals
1.0 Yellow Belly
0.1 Bumble Bee
1.0 Het Albino
0.1 Het Pied

I'm in Fuquay, nothing here but a small old town lol.

Leaving now to go to that store and talk to him.

My two cents:

1. If you are worried about escaping, you probably have the wrong enclosure.
2. From everything I've read, a GOOD thermostat (such as the Herpstat) and a temp gun are essential, top of the list items. (So, there is guy somewhere who has maintained a healthy collection without these tools for the past 30 yrs...doesn't matter - most of us are not him.)
3. For any new animal I recommend a getting a good book. It will have all the information in one place. IMO, Vincent Russo's The Complete Boa Constrictor would be worth the expense if you decide on a Boa.

There are several options for small boas, hog island, dumerils, ground, etc if you are interested but don't want something the size of a common or redtail boa.

After talking with the store owner and to you all here, he brought up pretty much everything you all did I've decided not to get one at this time. I just don't want to get it and not be able to give it the proper care it would need. Not to say I don't want one or two down the road, but not right now.

Thanks for the help though.

Good on you for considering the needs of the snake over your want for one. I know it's hard :rolleyes: I've been wanting to add more animals to my life and it's just not a good time.

We'll be here when you decide to get a scaly baby