breeders housing

Ive seen alot of breeders on the internet who house their snakes in racks.....nothing wrong with that, its just inside the rack, ususally all there is is a little water bowl (like that a rodent would use) .No hides, no nothing! and the space in there is usually very limited.

I know if i housed one of my snakes like that and showed you guys a picture, i know you would say for me to first.....get a cage big enough, get a bigger waterbowl for some humidity, then get some hides.

I know having alot of snakes can cost alot of money and therfore you cant have very extravagant housing for each and everyone of them.But still, i think at least two hides is a nessacity.

So i guess my question is...why do some breeder house thier snakes like that ?

I'm pretty sure almost every breeder houses their snakes like that
but just because its in a rack doesn't mean its being treated inhumanely.

Ahhh .... good question.

Well, I know I'm probably going to get some flak for this one, but here it goes!

Ball pythons do better in smaller cages! ... Yup, believe it or not, it's true. That certainly doesn't mean you can keep a 4ft ball in a 10 gallon tank, but a 3ftx1.5ft cage (the size of the boxes in my adult racks) is fine for an adult ball python. I have a whole bunch that eat (every week), deficate, and breed in these boxes and if getting your groove on isn't a sign of happiness, I don't know what is.

Water bowls? Well, ball pythons doesn't soak unless something is wrong with their environment. A ball python that feels secure, is at the proper temps, and is kept in the proper ambient humidity will never go in a water bowl (unless you feed it too big of a meal). Many breeders control the overall humidity in the room so a large water bowl isn't needed. I use 4" PVC couplers with 16oz deli cups inside and it works fine for my snakes.

Hide boxes ... well a lot of times, breeders will remove the hide box for the picture because the snake was actually in it. But a lot of adult ball pythons kept in racks don't even need a hide box. The low ceiling and low light in the back of the rack makes the snake feel secure enough without a hide, especially if they are a big adult that's been in captivity a lot of years. I offer hide boxes to all of my snakes, some use them, and some don't. I leave it up to them.

I don't think it's a money thing. Most of the freedom breeder racks used cost more than it would to set them all up in big plastic cages. It's more of a security thing. Ball pythons just love appropriately sized boxes with low ceilings!

I used to keep balls in 4ftx2ft neodesha cages and I always had problems. Snakes fasting, some wouldn't breed, some were so stressed that they strike at you all the time, it was nuts. They were all set up with the proper temps, hide boxes, humidity, etc ... For the longest time I thought that's just how balls were. Ever since moving them into rack systems, they are thriving! Everyone eats every single week, they breed like rabbits, and are as calm as can be (except for the occasional "leave me alone" hiss).

Now before I get beat up, I'm not saying the big cages, or aquariums, or whatever else anyone uses is wrong or that you're a bad snake owner if you don't use racks. Please understand that if you have a healthy animal that eats, you are doing EVERYTHING RIGHT! .... To do well, a ball python needs to feel secure, and if your snake is doing well, you are doing an awesome job of helping it feel secure. What I'm saying is that rack systems help snakes feel naturally secure without having to do a whole lot else. And when you have a collection of 200, 500, or 1000+ snakes and are running a business, that is a HUGE help.

Ok, let the posting begin! ... LOL

-adam

My $.02 essentially echos most of what Adam just said...

Something to consider is that on many rack systems, the boxes are opaque or translucent, and the depth of the rack allows the box to act as a hide in & of itself.

We have hides that Kevin specifically designed for use in Freedom Breeder racks, but only use them on REALLY shy snakes. Even our LTC WC animals feel comfortable enough to breed & reproduce w/o hides when we set them up in the right kind of box. Adding some crumpled newspaper helps for shy snakes in a rack system as well.

We also give our BP's as big of a water dish as we can possibly fit into their respective FB boxes, which helps to counter all the extra ventilation from the rack a bit.

K

Kevins hide boxes rock! They're all I use ... just picked up 30 more at the Philly show.

And I still remember when Kevin taught me the crumpled up newspaper trick many moons ago! ... LOL

Thanks K!

Caging discussions kinda belong in caging forum ;). Moved there.

Thanks for the info guys, i was just so confused with everyone saying that hides are the MUSTHAVE for any snake and then looking at these breeders on the internet and then not seeing any.


(oops sorry led) :)

hey adam or kara, how can i get some of these hides? i've been looking for a good hide for my 15 qt rack (small bp babies).


vaughn

Hey Vaughn,

I would shoot Kara or Kev an email.

If they don't hook you up give me a call, but I'm pretty sure they'll take care of ya!

-adam

thanks adam, what do you think of the 41 qt tubs for adults? compared to 3x24x12 cage for females/breeders? the forums have been hot lately! alot of good discussions.


vaughn

What are the dims on the 41 qt's? .... I don't really know them by volume, more by LxW.

I agree ... lots of smart people here ... I'm really enjoying it!

-adam

tub is 33.5x17.5x5.5 this is one of the biggest tubs i've seen racks made for except the huge freedoms. and i think animal plastics make some racks for the iris tubs that may be slightly larger.

vaughn

yeah ... that's the same tubs I uses for adults ... CB-70's right? They are awesome for bp's ... I use Kev's large hide boxes in those tubs if the girls need 'em.

-adam

yeah the iris tubs are cb-70's. i've been looking at different tubs and racks alot. my room keeps shrinking every year! lol. kara emailed me on the hides they look good. are the small hides big enough for a 200-300 bp? i'm looking for a hide for the 15 qt tubs and future hatchlings in 6 qt. tubs. i might try the crumpled up newspaper, my bp's like to go under the newsaper alot.


vaughn

I use the medium and large hides, haven't tried the smalls yet. I still have a ton of old school plastic flower pot bottoms that I'm not ready to part with yet for the babies ... lol .... but i'll probably have to this year ... crumpled newspaper works awesome! ... fill the whole box up with it. Always a great trick to get those hatchlings started!

-adam

Quote:

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Even our LTC WC animals feel comfortable enough to breed & reproduce w/o hides when we set them up in the right kind of box. Adding some crumpled newspaper helps for shy snakes in a rack system as well.

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Yeah, I agree, I have been living in one of Kara & Kevins rack system for years, I breed some mighty fine babies in there..lol
No rack systems here, but that is due to the variety of herps we keep, plus I think it may take a long time to explain the benefits of systems to my hubby. Sometime maybe soon.
But I don't oppose them if set up properly
Rusty