Burmese python rescue help.

I understand they must be respected, i understand the requirements, and i understand the income they require (just a few needs) I've done my research, I've read so much information. I've been sitting in-front of my computer for almost 16 hours straight now. This snake i rescued is about 9 ft and seems to be a nice healthy weight. but has mites and an RI infection. He is scheduled for a vet visit tomorrow morning. However my concern is the housing i currently have him in. I was on the spot to take him or leave him there to suffer and more than likely die, so i obviously took him and i IMMEDIATELY took him to my home and put him in the biggest enclosure i own. (its 5 feet long and 2 feet wide. Not sure on height but seems about medium. is this okay for him for the time being? i needed to spend the rest of this months check on his other things he requires. heat mat, rheostat, tank thermometer and etc etc. So i wont be able to get him a cage for about 2-3 weeks :[ but either way the tank i have him in now is FAR larger than the previous thunder:cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: that mistreated this animal. he was in like a 3 x 2 x 2!!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE. In the end i know i can take care and provide for this magnificent being as I've done research and know what has to be done, my question is how long can i keep him in this 5 long 2 wide 3 high enclosure? Hes also quite aggressive (which is understandable due to the previous living conditions and mistreatment) but im also very willing to take a few bites.

I know nothing of cage size. But I will say to make sure the vet does a culture for the RI so you can get the right meds. I hope the new scaly friend is OK. Post some pics in awhile after he settles :)

you're doing a good thing, the cage will definitely be okay for a little while. after all it is a huge upgrade. he would probably prefer bigger, but if it weren't for you he wouldn't have much at all. good luck!

First things first.
Find out from the vet what the time frame and treatment costs are going to be, and work your budget from there.

Life is rarely ideal.
You are making the situation much better than it was.
Best of luck

Please keep us updated!
Thanks.

Thanks and kudos straight out to you for your taking responsibility!!!! Do what you can as you can. You and your well being comes first. Reach out to your local herpetological society for help also. Good luck. Keep us updated as you can.:)

Your cage will be fine for a while my 7 foot burm is in 4x1.5x1.5 right now. Her next cage will be a 8 footer in about 6 months to a year.... My main focus would be to get him happy and healthy... I'm betting he will calm down when he gets back to healthy and some rabbit in him.. Thanks for doing what you are. Keep up the good work.

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Proud of ya man. You're doing a good thing.

It's better to take a bit longer and get the right stuff than get in a hurry and buy sub par which will end up just being temporary.

So don't feel guilty as long as you're taking care of his health and moving forward. After all, he's doing much better now in your hands!

See if a local herper has an unused VE-175 Christmas Tree tub that you can buy or borrow short-term. You'll just have to secure the lid very well with luggage straps or tie-downs so your new critter doesn't escape.

Thanks everybody for the kind words, input and help! As for the updating ill be sure to keep it at a regular! His appointment is at 11:30am and im going to be sure to have them culture for an RI, help with the mites, and test for any other possible issues that could be present. Ill be sure to post AS SOON as i get home. Cant believe ive been up for this long! My last post was this thread i created at like 2:30am today! As for the Christmas tree tub im going to be doing a lot of looking and searching for one around me. If not i called around today and my step mother tells me that she could easily fabricate a cage for him 9 x 4 x 4!!!! Will only cost me the supplies (Roughly 250$) but the downside it will take about two-three weeks to build but that's when i get paid again anyways! So the cage issue is about handled and the health issues are to be handled step by step starting tomorrow! Ill definitely be posting pictures sometime before Wednesday. Once again thanks everyone! ill keep you updated!

Had them do a culture for a RI. He doesn't have an RI (which surprises the HELL out of me). They said to Put vegetable oil on him and change his substrate to paper towels (which is a REALLY weird request but i guess ill try it). Also they gave me a can of prevent-a-mite so ill be using that. Costed me for the whole visit and checkup 150$

:O I would nix the veggie oil. I can't imagine it would change from BPs to Burms, and I know oil of any kind is not good to use on them. Hopefully a keeper with Burm exp will offer thoughts on dealing with the mites.

Yeah hopefully more will come. This particular clinic didn't seem necessarily "involved" with reptiles if you know what i mean. They were really nice and particularly "attractive" women if you will, i feel like that kind of spaced me out from asking questions that i should have been asking. Either way i would really enjoy some more input from the forums because they didn't seem like they knew what they were doing when it came to snakes anyways. They literally said to me "We don't get many of these here" not sure if they were meaning the fact that it was a burm or the fact that it was a snake. Either way obviously under-educated. Hoping for more information.

Do not put vegetable or mineral oil on your snake. Yes, it will suffocate the mites but it also softens your snake's scales so they slough off.

Provent-A-Mite is effective but with a big snake like a burmese python you could need several cans, which can get pricey. You can make an effective mite spray using NIX or RID head lice treatment - look for the 2 oz bottle where the active ingredient is 1% permethrin.

Mix the NIX/RID with a gallon of warm water, pour some into a spray bottle, and spray your snake's enclosure and paper bedding substrate. DON'T SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Once everything dries you can put the snake back in. Some people spray their snakes with the solution but I never have. You can also pre-treat paper and let it dry so you can just replace soiled paper with treated paper when the snake makes a mess.

If you want to give your snake some instant relief then a lukewarm bath (about 85*F) with a drop or two of dish soap to decrease the water's surface tension will drown the mites on the snake.

The oil is controversial. Some experienced keepers recommend it. Shaw, of HLH Reptiles has a video where he describes how to use oil to treat a snake for mites I have contacted him before with questions.


In addition to spraying the enclosure, P. 82, of The Complete Boa Constrictor, by Vincent Russo suggests the following:

Soak animal in a shallow tub of warm water. Tub should have a tight lid.
During soak, spray top of snake with a solution of Nix - this is a commercial lice treatment for people. (again, this is a boa book, so it is possible the Burms have special sensitivities, but I haven't come across any such info. - there have been other threads on mites on BP.) Soak snake for one hour, and repeat one week later. This should kill all mice and eggs.

IIRC, The Barkers at VPI have a good paper on mites on their site. Somewhat academic, but good reading, and useful for the larger picture.

I suspect the vets want the burm on white paper toweles so you can detect any other possible problems (indicated by body fluids), and so you can see better any lingering mites after treatments.

Edit timed out. Obviously, should read:
"This should kill all mites and eggs."

WOW!!!!!! Thanks bcr229 and distaff!!!!! Thats the best information ive heard since acquiring this animal! Thank you for all the help and info!!!!!

I'm going to chime in here, but feel free to disregard and go with others recommendations. Prevent a mite works, but I much rather use Natural Chemistry mite spray. It is a completely non toxic formula that you can spray directly onto the snake and its enclosure. Especially with a snake that has an RI, you have to be very careful about what the snake is inhaling. In the midst of an infection the pulmonary epithelium is irritated and inflamed as is.

As a toxicologist I much prefer the natural chemistry option. It massacres mites just as well as provent a mite.

Getting the measurements tomorrow for an 18 foot L shape vivarium for this amazing animal. Had him out for the first time today (i've found hes actually a really sweet guy, just a little cage aggressive). I've also been calling around to find rabbit breeders near me, and with close to no luck at all the battle continues. I was looking at All of the ways you all have so generously commented about getting rid of mites and have decided that i am going to do all of them through the course of time of course(except vegetable oil, boy that would've been a disaster if i would've followed through with what the vets told me). Also i STILL have reason to believe he has an RI as i can hear him breathing. A second vet visit will be as soon as i get the 80$ to take him for a professional wellness checkup as the closest high quality, reptile knowledgeable establishment is almost 4 hours away from me. I WILL WIN THIS BATTLE FOR THIS ANIMAL TO BE A HEALTHY HAPPY SNAKE IF ITS THE LAST THING I DO!!!!!! :love::love::love:

Thought. Again, applying my BP exp here. But when my girl is out in too low humidity sometimes she starts to whistle for a little while. It might be too soon for this question but... How's your humidity looking?

I don't know what the cost is to purchase f/t rabbits from the major suppliers. I will say, if you are looking locally, that rabbit breeders are everywhere, they just frequently keep a low profile. I'm in NM. I have eight lovely rabbits to butcher this week, and would happily hand a bunny off to a needy burm, but I'm sure you can find someone much closer.

The typical stuff, like asking around, Craig's List, etc... We are in state fair season, So local breeders will be showing and selling their rabbits there. California Fryers, New Zealand Whites, and Florida Whites are standard "meat" type rabbits. All rabbits are edible, but the breeders of the meat types will have the most practical mentality about the usual end of a rabbit's life.

Hey are you looking at a viv that is 18 square feet? Or 18 feet long?

Check out monster feeders... There pigglet prices are unbeatable

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Never heard of Monster Feeders. I like their site... but I'm a sucker for pics of little kids with these huge animals. They help make the hobby look friendly and more respectable.

They also offer 8 foot enclosures for $550, or so. Don't know what shipping would be. Honestly, as long as the current enclosure is adequate, I wouldn't worry about that until you get feeders in place, and have a clean bill of health from the new vet.

Slow and steady. You don't want to get stressed out with this.

Yea the monster crew has it all and good prices I'm lucky to only live 4 hours away.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Never heard of Monster Feeders. I like their site... but I'm a sucker for pics of little kids with these huge animals. They help make the hobby look friendly and more respectable.

They also offer 8 foot enclosures for $550, or so. Don't know what shipping would be. Honestly, as long as the current enclosure is adequate, I wouldn't worry about that until you get feeders in place, and have a clean bill of health from the new vet.

Slow and steady. You don't want to get stressed out with this.

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This.

That said, I have two of the Monster 8'x2.5'x18" enclosures and love them as they are very sturdy and easy to clean out. Mine have the center dividers as well, which is very convenient for breeding medium-sized snakes like boas, or you can move a pissy larger snake to one side, put in the divider, clean the empty side, move the snake over, clean the other side...

I also found a local pig farmer who now puts his stillborn piglets into the freezer for my larger snakes. He used to just throw them into the compost pile as he had no idea people would pay for those!

Like that still born idea bcr229 going to have talk to some farmers now.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Like that still born idea bcr229 going to have talk to some farmers now.

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It helps that I get half a hog from him for the chest freezer every spring and fall.

The snake may not have an RI, I have read that sometimes you can hear large snakes breathing from another room!

I can here my big coastal girl breath all the time gets worse the more frustrated she is.

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Burms are definitely known for being vocal snakes.

18 feet long. It should be PERFECT for him and is only going to cost around 150 for it to be fabricated as my step mother is a carpenter and said she would absolutely do it for me. 18 long 8 wide and 3 high

Once again thanks for all of the attention this thread is getting everybody. all this information is EXTREMELY useful. Heres some answers to questions and thoughts and etc etc replies... i was asked. :::: for the humidity i went ahead and purchased the Zilla 11577 (as ive had it for my bp and worked like a charm) It constantly reads between 50%-70%. i keep his temps at a nice 75-80 degree cool side 85-90 degree hot side. as for the food i took some advice and went on craigslist. MULTIPLE bunnies for sale 5-15 dollars for a 5-10 pounder. mostly new zealands but they look VERY fat. I have no intention on letting the breeders know what i'm buying them for as snakes have a HUGE stigma surrounding them in this state which is another reason i'm glad this guy showed up, i cant wait to have him around for a few shows at schools when the time comes to relieve some of this hatred against such amazing animals like snakes. As for the RI it doesn't necessarily sound like wheezing but more like breathing sort of if you breathed slightly hard.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

I can here my big coastal girl breath all the time gets worse the more frustrated she is.

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Same here with my Coastal which is of similar size as yours. At first I thought that she was hissing, but then came to realize since it was all the time that theses bigger girls must huff and puff a lot. :D

I honestly would not build the cage nearly that big......18x8x3 is wayyyyy to big......ur for one going to hate moving it and 2 be pissed when he doesn't use half I would go no bigger than 10.... My retic and burm cages are going to be 8x3x1.5)

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Thanks, and yes i will try to downside a bit if that's what the forums tell me to do. As this snake is a rescue, i'm actually quite novice at the larger snakes but am willing to learn for this guy. The only thing is i have NO issue moving a larger cage and i thought males get any where from 12-15 feet. so 3 extra would give him room to move around a bit. BUT if you are in fact knowledgeable on larger animals i should probably take your word over my assumptions.

I just have trouble imagining an indoor enclosure that size, that is all. There isn't a single room in our house that is 18feet long - never mind wall space that wouldn't block a door, esp. with an 8 foot width.

Even the largest my outdoor walk-in rabbit pens only have a footprint of 16'X7'. Our goat barn is a tarped over 10x10 dog kennel. I couldn't come in any where near just $150 in materials for any of them, and I'm using cattle panel, wire fencing, pvc pipe (roof support), and tarps. I love building the outdoor enclosures, and would really like to see what your step-mother makes for you. Pics please?

The lady who makes the 1Softkiss Youtube videos built something in a similar size, but it was an outdoor enclosure - sort of a sun portch for good weather. I'm not sure what size she has inside for her pair of huge Argentine (IIRC?) boas.

I have NO experience with these big snakes, but my only concern would be the ability to keep the ambient temp up in such a large space.

Glad to hear you found a good rabbit source.

Most of all the retic And burm keepers use 8x3 with 10x4 for there 20+ foot animals

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I very much agree an 18 foot cage is major overkill. 15 foot males are super rare. You're looking 10-12 feet on average.

Also, I'm sure others will disagree, but I never liked lying to breeders about what I was going to do with their rabbits. I could never pretend to be giving a loving home to an animal and then feed it to a snake. Seems like that also plays into the negative stigma surrounding our hobby as snake keepers.

ETA on the rabbits. My understanding is that the food source should not be too fat, as in obese. I have heard keepers objecting to the jumbo rats as just being overfed, and FAT.

The NZ, as a meat breed is built to be round, and have a high meat to bone ratio. Of course I can't see the rabbits you obtained, and they should be just fine. They SHOULD look round and not be fat.

If these look like they could work as a long term source, you can always cut one open and check inside. You should find lots and lots of guts - like cows, bunnies are just a big veggi fermentation vat, and that takes up the majority of space it their bodies. The liver should be dark, and the lungs and heart should be of good color and firm. "Firm" is relative - but the usual organ meats that show up on meat counters are pallid in color and mushy. A healthy bunny has beautiful organs, and there will some fat around the organs and on the shoulders, but not a lot of fat any where.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

Thanks, and yes i will try to downside a bit if that's what the forums tell me to do. As this snake is a rescue, i'm actually quite novice at the larger snakes but am willing to learn for this guy. The only thing is i have NO issue moving a larger cage and i thought males get any where from 12-15 feet. so 3 extra would give him room to move around a bit. BUT if you are in fact knowledgeable on larger animals i should probably take your word over my assumptions.

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Typically you'd want a square foot of floor space per foot of snake, though with a thicker snake like a burm another foot or two of length wouldn't hurt.

ill probably just go with a 10x4x3 for an enclosure size (significantly less but more than the average 8). Also i'm going to try to sort of edge it in their that its being fed to a snake, but my only concern is i'm afraid of a rejection when buying them if i have to drive 2 hours to get them because that would kill me on gas (i drive a ford econoline cargo) which is more money on i have to spend on gas and less on my new family member. As for the enclosure i will happily post pictures when it is finished :):) I'm going to pic these NZ's up today in just a few hours. I'm buying 10 of them (they're only 5$). Thanks again everybody for making this a whole lot easier. I also did the nix on the vivarium, his paper towels (since hes albino the newspaper kinda gets all over him) and i silicone caulked all wholes to prevent mite re-infestation. I see very very few mites now perhaps like 1 miniscule one every now and again. going to do it a again here in a week, that should be the end of those little pesky suckers >:D

You can order frozen rabbit feeders online if you can't get them locally. Obviously you have to pay for shipping but you're saving on gas and time. I get mine semi-local from someone who breeds them specifically as snake food, so they're already killed and frozen when I get them. I usually get 30-40 so I only have to pick them up once every few months.

Also rabbits should not be fed live, only f/t or pre-kill, as they have very long claws and can seriously mess up a snake even if the snake gets a perfect hit on it.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

You can order frozen rabbit feeders online if you can't get them locally. Obviously you have to pay for shipping but you're saving on gas and time. I get mine semi-local from someone who breeds them specifically as snake food, so they're already killed and frozen when I get them. I usually get 30-40 so I only have to pick them up once every few months.

Also rabbits should not be fed live, only f/t or pre-kill, as they have very long claws and can seriously mess up a snake even if the snake gets a perfect hit on it.

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Absolutely agree! Rabbits are incredibly destructive to snakes when fed live. They also scream bloody murder, making it an awful experience for both the snake and anyone around. Pre-killing rabbits is also much more difficult than mice and rats, unless you are willing to build a CO2 chamber.

Burms have such a strong feeding response that there is really no reason to not get frozen thawed. There are a few companies that I have seen with very reasonable shipping costs. I think at this point you should order some rabbits and feed rats until they arrive.

The NZ's are bred to be meat rabbits. It is unlikely the seller is expecting you to keep them as pets. Obviously, I haven't conversed with the person, but he may expect you want them as breeders. Most breeders get eaten too. If he isn't asking questions, personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

On killing rabbits: This seems to go against the grain with reptile people, but frankly, as a farmer and homesteader, I DON'T understand why. It is NOT hard to humanely kill a rabbit! I have done hundreds of them. I use a small four pound sledge hammer from any hardware store, and a sharp knife. Hold bunny firmly on a clean stable surface. The ground covered with an old cloth or paper bag works fine. (I always offer a prayer and thanks. We are taking a life here, after all.) Visualize an X between the rabbit's ears and the eyes. bring the hammer down firmly on that spot. Err on the side of farther back than too far forward. I give it a couple of good blows. The skull will be crushed. Because I am butchering for our table, I cut the head off and hang the carcass briefly to bleed. You can probably skip this step, and go straight to the hungry snake.

SnakeBytes has an episode where Brian and that Australian guy are feeding the big snakes. The rabbits in that particular episode looked freshly killed to me - not particularly stiff yet, and not wet as if they were f/t. Furthermore, all the rabbits had blood around the mouth. I don't think that batch was euthenized with CO2.

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Originally Posted by distaff

The NZ's are bred to be meat rabbits. It is unlikely the seller is expecting you to keep them as pets. Obviously, I haven't conversed with the person, but he may expect you want them as breeders. Most breeders get eaten too. If he isn't asking questions, personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

On killing rabbits: This seems to go against the grain with reptile people, but frankly, as a farmer and homesteader, I DON'T understand why. It is NOT hard to humanely kill a rabbit! I have done hundreds of them. I use a small four pound sledge hammer from any hardware store, and a sharp knife. Hold bunny firmly on a clean stable surface. The ground covered with an old cloth or paper bag works fine. (I always offer a prayer and thanks. We are taking a life here, after all.) Visualize an X between the rabbit's ears and the eyes. bring the hammer down firmly on that spot. Err on the side of farther back than too far forward. I give it a couple of good blows. The skull will be crushed. Because I am butchering for our table, I cut the head off and hang the carcass briefly to bleed. You can probably skip this step, and go straight to the hungry snake.

SnakeBytes has an episode where Brian and that Australian guy are feeding the big snakes. The rabbits in that particular episode looked freshly killed to me - not particularly stiff yet, and not wet as if they were f/t. Furthermore, all the rabbits had blood around the mouth. I don't think that batch was euthenized with CO2.

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Ah, I was under the impression these were being sold as pets. Totally awesome that you farm and homestead. I have profound respect for self-sufficient Americans. My only worry is that people who don't have the experience with butchering animals will not be able to perform the procedure you detailed in an efficient way. I euthanize mice and rats every day, and perform surgeries for research purposes. I am by no means blood shy. But I know that I would not be able to crush a rabbits skull, especially if there were easily acquired frozen options.

Just got my first 10 NZ's. Perhaps after these are gone, ill try frozen thawed. Any suggestions on good sites with low shipping costs? rodent pro was going to charge me 62.70 for shipping! Also i tried handling again today and noticed his eyes are cloudy so hes probably going into shed, i guess ill hold off until the entire shedding process is over. In addition, could i pre-kill, then ziploc and freeze them myself? or would that be a terrible idea. i have them in kind of a fenced in area right now and it would be WAY easier to put them in my freezer, but if it isn't a good idea i absolutely WILL NOT do it. Once agin everybody you're all so very awesome with all of this help and VERY useful information!!! Thanks alot guys! :colbert2::colbert2::colbert2::colbert2:

Yes you can kill and freeze them no problem...monster feeders is the cheapest I know of especially his piglet prices

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You can certainly kill them now and freeze them until feeding day. I pull anything larger than a 1# rabbit or jumbo rat out of the deep freeze two days before feeding day and put them in the refrigerator to thaw slowly before warming them up, as otherwise they take for-e-ver to bring up to eating temperature.

For that many you may want to make a CO2 chamber.

I suggest pre-kill. An outside pen, as in "kind of a fenced area" is not going to work well for long. They dig, they are heat sensitive, and you will loose them to predators. Depending on their age, the males may start fighting.

If you want a long-term supply of rabbit meat and are unable to find frozen thawed, I suggest finding an ARBA rabbit show nearby. I breed a fairly uncommon kind of rabbit (called a tan) and frequently show them. At most of the shows near me, there's a lady who buys the rabbits that don't fit the ARBA Standard of Perfection for dog food. The breeders know exactly where the rabbits are going and they are fine with it (Most actually seek her out. Remember, most rabbits have big litters! It's nearly impossible to find homes for them all, especially the meat breeds.) I would go to a show and set up a space with a scale and a sign that says "Will buy your culls" and list some prices. Once people know you're around, they'll bring the rabbits to you. If you have access to frozen thawed rabbit, that is a far better alternative. This is just a different way to do things.

Oh, and I second distaff. The males will absolutely start fighting (likely to the death) if they're old enough. Even the females have been known to squabble a fair bit.