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Substrate options?

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  • 07-15-2015, 11:41 PM
    Penultimate
    Substrate options?
    I've been using paper towels for all my racks, and I am really fed up with those by now. The snakes always do their business under the towels, I can't spot clean, it looks terrible and the towels always end up wrinkled and torn in one corner. Plus, I don't like throwing away all this paper. I need to find a better option.

    I've been looking at aspen as a different idea. The snakes would probably enjoy burrowing in it, and I'd be able to spot clean. I also wouldn't have to be guilty of throwing away so many paper towels. However, I've heard it gets moldy when wet and is awful for humidity.

    Cypress mulch also seems like a viable idea, but I use it for one of my girls, and I don't like it very much... She's very good at getting it in her water. I do like how well it controls humidity if needed, but I'm not sure I'd like to use it for all of my snakes.

    What are some other options? I'd like something that I can buy in bulk that isn't too expensive. Also, it has to be something that is unlikely to get in the water dish every single day.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:03 AM
    BCS
    I have been asking this exact question for a long time now. Aspen really does just fine in my opinion. Pretty much any loose substrate like aspen, coconut, cypress etc, will get into the water, especially if it is wet and sticks to the snake as he/she moves over the bowl. It is pretty much unavoidable. Aspen (where I live) is literally impossible to find in bulk so for me it is stupid expensive so I am one of those paper wasters and use unprinted news paper as it is super cheap, but if I could get bulk (or cheap(er)) aspen that is the way I would go.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:09 AM
    Penultimate
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BCS View Post
    I have been asking this exact question for a long time now. Aspen really does just fine in my opinion. Pretty much any loose substrate like aspen, coconut, cypress etc, will get into the water, especially if it is wet and sticks to the snake as he/she moves over the bowl. It is pretty much unavoidable. Aspen (where I live) is literally impossible to find in bulk so for me it is stupid expensive so I am one of those paper wasters and use unprinted news paper as it is super cheap, but if I could get bulk (or cheap(er)) aspen that is the way I would go.

    I'm really leaning towards aspen... I use it for one of my snakes in a T8 and I like it better than towels. She rarely gets it in the water dish, just once every few days. There are a few downsides, though... still thinking.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:18 AM
    BCS
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Penultimate View Post
    I'm really leaning towards aspen... I use it for one of my snakes in a T8 and I like it better than towels. She rarely gets it in the water dish, just once every few days. There are a few downsides, though... still thinking.

    I have heard about the mold thing too but honestly I have sprayed my corn snake's cage when she is in shed (she is the only one I use aspen for ATM) and it hasn't molded yet. I think it would mold if it got seriously drenched and feces were to be left too long. A little spray down to up humidity probably wouldn't do too much damage. Buy a little bag and do an experiment without a snake (act as though there is one by spraying, water dish, and heating) and see what happens.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:23 AM
    Penultimate
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BCS View Post
    I have heard about the mold thing too but honestly I have sprayed my corn snake's cage when she is in shed (she is the only one I use aspen for ATM) and it hasn't molded yet. I think it would mold if it got seriously drenched and feces were to be left too long. A little spray down to up humidity probably wouldn't do too much damage. Buy a little bag and do an experiment without a snake (act as though there is one by spraying, water dish, and heating) and see what happens.

    That sounds like a good idea. I don't normally spray cages for shedding, I've always just added an extra water dish and been fine. I think I'll give this a try and see how it goes.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:27 AM
    ballpythonsrock2
    Re: Substrate options?
    You might want to try the green and brown liners like they sell at Petco. They can be spot cleaned or taken out and cleaned and disinfected, dried, and put back in. You could try it in one or two and see how you like it first. I liked it a lot but thought the eco-earth looked a little cooler for my terrarium. But with racks looks aren't as important as how it works for you, correct? What do others think about liners?
  • 07-16-2015, 12:31 AM
    Penultimate
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2 View Post
    You might want to try the green and brown liners like they sell at Petco. They can be spot cleaned or taken out and cleaned and disinfected, dried, and put back in. You could try it in one or two and see how you like it first. I liked it a lot but thought the eco-earth looked a little cooler for my terrarium. But with racks looks aren't as important as how it works for you, correct? What do others think about liners?

    The liners might be ok for just one or two ball pythons, but I think I'd like something else seeing as my collection is getting pretty large.
  • 07-16-2015, 12:50 AM
    ballpythonsrock2
    Re: Substrate options?
    I fine mist also to raise humidity. I have a bowl of moss I rotate and mist. I mists the substrate a little, the hide tubs tops and the plants. I got a little clear bottle sprayer for a dollar at Dollar General. I add reptisafe to the water in case the snake would lick it.
  • 07-16-2015, 10:20 AM
    Tsanford
    Re: Substrate options?
    Aspen is a good choice but pine is cheaper ;)

    Also you don't need to worry about mold as long as you don't go weeks without cleaning. I deep clean once a week, and spot clean daily. Never had a mold issue. I've used both aspen and pine.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
  • 07-16-2015, 10:24 AM
    PitOnTheProwl
    I have tried a couple shredded woods and always find myself back at good old paper towels.
    Just easier to deal with for me.
  • 07-16-2015, 11:28 AM
    200xth
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tsanford View Post
    Aspen is a good choice but pine is cheaper ;)

    Also you don't need to worry about mold as long as you don't go weeks without cleaning. I deep clean once a week, and spot clean daily. Never had a mold issue. I've used both aspen and pine.

    Same. I much prefer pine over aspen. Doesn't mold nearly as easily, better absorbency, better odor control. I used to keep both on hand, but I don't bother with aspen anymore.
  • 07-16-2015, 11:08 PM
    BCS
    I thought aspen was bad for ball pythons?
  • 07-16-2015, 11:21 PM
    BumbleB
    I recently made the switch from paper towels to aspen sani chips. It's very easy to clean, clumps up almost like a kitty litter but is somewhat messy. I find myself sweeping the snake room after doing a good amount of cleaning. My snakes shed fine I usually just move the water dish into the back of the tub over the heat and havent had any issues so far. I do miss paper towels at times but being able to spot clean and a whole lot less paper waste is what keeps me from going back
  • 07-17-2015, 02:49 AM
    Penultimate
    ... isn't pine bedding bad for snakes?

    Sani chips are not too bad. I worry about them getting everywhere (the snake room is carpeted), but not bad... do the snakes ever manage to get a huge mouthful while eating? Any issues there?
  • 07-17-2015, 08:25 AM
    C2tcardin
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BCS View Post
    I thought aspen was bad for ball pythons?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Penultimate View Post
    ... isn't pine bedding bad for snakes?

    Plenty of guys here use Pine for their BP's without issue, and aspen is perfectly safe too.

    As for the OP, I switched from aspen as it was really dusty and it's always in their water bowls. I'm sure switching to different bowls would have done the trick but I was also annoyed with constantly finding bits of aspen substrate in and around my house, it sticks to socks like velcro too! LOL

    I switched to using this paper in my tubs and have been happy with it, I find clean up is less messy and faster, but every time they go you don't do a spot clean you just clean out the tub and replace the paper. I keep a bunch of extra tubs on hand already lined with paper to make the change even easier.
  • 07-17-2015, 06:25 PM
    ballpythonsrock2
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 200xth View Post
    Same. I much prefer pine over aspen. Doesn't mold nearly as easily, better absorbency, better odor control. I used to keep both on hand, but I don't bother with aspen anymore.

    I was sincerely wondering why so many places seem to lump pine in with cedar as things you don't want to use for substrate with snakes.
    No one on here would recommend using cedar as the oils are toxic to snakes. But if you say it is ok to use pine are they wrong?, when they say you shouldn't use pine and why are they wrong, was just wondering and hoping you had the answer. please educate me, as I would like to know.
  • 07-17-2015, 06:36 PM
    ballpythonsrock2
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BCS View Post
    I thought aspen was bad for ball pythons?

    It's cedar that is bad for all snakes. But some sources say pine is bad, myself I don't know about pine whether it is bad or good.
    Seems some people here like it and recommend it. Personally I like the eco-earth coconut, right now anyway. I would like to hear
    even more about pine from the pine users.
  • 07-17-2015, 06:46 PM
    ballpythonsrock2
    Re: Substrate options?
    .....I keep a bunch of extra tubs on hand already lined with paper to make the change even easier.

    That's a pretty smart idea. No stress for the snake too, you don't have to find someplace to put them while you clean.
  • 07-17-2015, 08:33 PM
    C2tcardin
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2 View Post
    .....I keep a bunch of extra tubs on hand already lined with paper to make the change even easier.

    That's a pretty smart idea. No stress for the snake too, you don't have to find someplace to put them while you clean.

    Exactly! I can change all 7 tubs in my rack in under 5 minutes then just clean the tubs and reline them with fresh paper for the next time. I also keep about a dozen spare clean hides ready to go as well as clean water dishes.
  • 07-19-2015, 01:43 AM
    Tsanford
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl View Post
    I have tried a couple shredded woods and always find myself back at good old paper towels.
    Just easier to deal with for me.

    Don't you find with paper that once they urinate / urate, the whole thing becomes soggy, then you must sanitize the tub.

    Where as with shredded material, it absorbs the waste on site, allowing you to spot clean?



    Also the pine debate has been here many times. If you search, I remember an informative post by skiploader on pine.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
  • 07-20-2015, 11:00 AM
    200xth
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2 View Post
    I was sincerely wondering why so many places seem to lump pine in with cedar as things you don't want to use for substrate with snakes.
    No one on here would recommend using cedar as the oils are toxic to snakes. But if you say it is ok to use pine are they wrong?, when they say you shouldn't use pine and why are they wrong, was just wondering and hoping you had the answer. please educate me, as I would like to know.

    Cedar is definitely toxic.

    I don't really know how the "pine is bad" thing got started. However it got started, a lot of people blindly read it, and blindly repeated it to the point it became commonly accepted.

    Someone else may be able to provide a better answer and more info for you.
  • 07-20-2015, 11:01 AM
    200xth
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tsanford View Post
    Also the pine debate has been here many times. If you search, I remember an informative post by skiploader on pine.

    http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Pine-Debate&
  • 07-20-2015, 04:03 PM
    TheSnakeEye
    I have always used shredded aspen and have never had any issues, other than dust giving me allergies. As long as there is enough circulation in the tub & it's cleaned quick enough, I get no mold. Humidity is fine for me as well but then again I live in a humid city. I am currently using aspen sani-chips, which isn't as effective as the shredded aspen I think, but it has way less dust and looks nice lol.
  • 07-21-2015, 02:04 PM
    Penultimate
    Hey, has anyone tried alder bedding before? My dad suggested it. He says it's not too far off from aspen, and it grows here so it would be easy for us to get. I think it sounds interesting, but I'm not sure about it yet.
  • 07-21-2015, 04:49 PM
    beeze
    I really enjoy using Eco Earth: Coconut Fiber Substrate. It holds humidity well, allows for spot cleaning, and doesn't get moldy or smell weird. It's also visually appealing and my BP loves to burrow in it.
  • 07-21-2015, 06:14 PM
    TheSnakeEye
    Re: Substrate options?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by beeze View Post
    I really enjoy using Eco Earth: Coconut Fiber Substrate. It holds humidity well, allows for spot cleaning, and doesn't get moldy or smell weird. It's also visually appealing and my BP loves to burrow in it.

    I find Eco-Earth too expensive for the collection I have. Aspen is cheap
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