» Site Navigation
2 members and 698 guests
Most users ever online was 47,180, 07-16-2025 at 05:30 PM.
» Today's Birthdays
» Stats
Members: 75,909
Threads: 249,108
Posts: 2,572,140
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
|
-
??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I fell like I'm seeing so many inproper setups and problems that are coming up day after day that is pretty basic stuff. Are people just selling there reptiles to people and not care ıf that person knows how to care for it..... I have personally never once sold a reptile to someone without getting to know that person a little by asking them questions......like what is your setup like what are ur temps,substrate,tstat,humidity. I have refused to sell to a few people based on there response and actually have had people I refused to sell to come back after doing some homework and saveing money for basic husbandry supplies and got the animal off me then........ My little sister(11) is really fascinated with bps so I gave her Kevin's New book for her bday and she is getting one of my hatchings for Xmas. She has saved up and bought her own t stat already and she's 11........so after my litte rant is over......has anyone else refused to sell to someone or have a normal list of basic questions they ask?
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I understand ur petsmarts and Petco dosent care. I talking more on the hobbiest breeder standpoint
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
-
I've scared off my fair share of customers by answering their questions truthfully.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostysBP
I understand ur petsmarts and Petco dosent care. I talking more on the hobbiest breeder standpoint
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
Really? As far as I'm aware, both of these places have policies in place that say anyone can refuse the sale of any animal for any reason. Of course they care. Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean you need to be taking cheap shots at them.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1982
I've scared off my fair share of customers by answering their questions truthfully.
And made a few customers this way too, I bet. :)
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Yes petsmart and them can refuse sales but you don't see them doing it to often.. The give them a bulb and some repti carpet and send them on there way
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Alan
Really? As far as I'm aware, both of these places have policies in place that say anyone can refuse the sale of any animal for any reason. Of course they care. Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean you need to be taking cheap shots at them.
I don't really think it was meant as a cheap shot, both these stores do have policies in place, however I have never seen them refuse to sell a live animal to anyone. Not just with reptiles but with all animals they sell. Their husbandry in the stores is horrible, and the "care sheets" they provide aren't any better. I think the problem is most people that work there have zero reptile/exotic experience. I have been to some Petco's where I have asked to see one of the boas they had (just killing time) and the person in charge of the reptile area had to get someone else because they were afraid to pull it out. The Petsmart by my house has a Sun Conure for sale and they sales associate was telling a mom wanting to get a bird for their 6 year old that this was an easy bird to care for and would be great for a kid...
-
Yes, I care.
I breed a number of animals, inc. meat rabbits and dairy goats, but I don't breed for money, nor do I advertise.
Nevertheless, people do show up and ask. The few times I've let an animal go, I've almost always regretted the experience.
I just don't do it any more.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
The problem is even if you care who your animals go to, there is so much you can do.
You can ask questions but they can lie, they can also do great at first and than like some not care any longer.
And there is no solution for that, you can't request a home check prior to the purchase and than do so once a year.
So as a breeder you just hope for the fest and in the majority of cases that's just what happen.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostysBP
I fell like I'm seeing so many inproper setups and problems that are coming up day after day that is pretty basic stuff. Are people just selling there reptiles to people and not care ıf that person knows how to care for it..... I have personally never once sold a reptile to someone without getting to know that person a little by asking them questions......like what is your setup like what are ur temps,substrate,tstat,humidity. I have refused to sell to a few people based on there response and actually have had people I refused to sell to come back after doing some homework and saveing money for basic husbandry supplies and got the animal off me then........ My little sister(11) is really fascinated with bps so I gave her Kevin's New book for her bday and she is getting one of my hatchings for Xmas. She has saved up and bought her own t stat already and she's 11........so after my litte rant is over......has anyone else refused to sell to someone or have a normal list of basic questions they ask?
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostysBP
I understand ur petsmarts and Petco dosent care. I talking more on the hobbiest breeder standpoint
Sent from my LGL15G using Tapatalk
I think it may be a little more complicated than this. I'm sure Petco and Petsmart would love to sell a large list of equipment to everyone buying their animals. A family member on my wife's side worked for Petco's corporate headquarters for awhile and I definitely never got the impression that she nor the company culture was one of uncaring. I think it's more ignorance of proper care. Certainly the breeders who are supplying them, and may be well known and respected names among hobbyists (I don't know who does these accounts anymore), are just as culpable as the chains. I've seen some local family run establishments that make chain pet stores seem incredibly caring. Not defending them, just saying I think it's more complicated a picture.
There are some incentives breeders can offer that can help. It would be unreasonable of me to demand an equipment list from every potential customer. However, I do offer an extended health guarantee for no cost if a customer sends me a photo of their set-up. For me at least, this has so far struck the best balance and allowed me to review a set-up that's more accurately represented with an image than with a (possibly faked) description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1982
I've scared off my fair share of customers by answering their questions truthfully.
Even just asking a question in response can scare them off sometimes. I remember one guy having emailed me that he was all set to buy one of my dragons. He used to have one years ago but it broke it's leg and died. Never heard from him again after inquiring how his dragon broke it's leg... something that's very difficult for them to do on their own.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I know that petco and them dont want to see animals hurt but they dont activly try and make things better... they sell snakes to people that havent eaten with thwm or even f/t and then when people go my snake wont eat tge say we vant sell you live... thats just poor business practice In my opinion. ... its not like I go to peoples house but I ask them a list of basic questions and of they cant answer what temps they should have then ther def not getting a snake from me.... I would rather feed it and know that its healthy and happy...... then agian im not producing thousands of snakes.... just for instance not to bad mouth anyone at all because I love this breeder and will buy thing from him forever but I never once got ask anything when I bought my retics..... I think it more lies on personal feelings and beliefs than anything
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
-
I certainly care. I'm currently in the process of selling a majority of mine because I'm going into the military. So, for like a month now I haven't sold a single one because I'm trying to find the right owner lol
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I'm not a huge fan of pet stores like petco and pet smart. There was an issue a while back with a Petco getting caught throwing LIVE animals in the trash. Almost all of them reptiles, for various pathetic reasons. On the other hand I know several people who work for both companies who really care for animals so I'm not attacking them as a whole. The situation just left a terrible impression. I can't even go there for pet food anymore after that.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I also want to point out that you can ask questions and inquire all you want but as someone stated, it's easy to lie. It's still important to try however. It's frustrating to see people trying to rehome pet snakes such as BPs that have terrible set ups. (So many baby's in humongous tanks with no heat! For real? Why!? It's called Google people!) One guy was trying to sell his normal ball and setup for $200 because he didn't have time to play with it every day and he felt bad for it. It was just a baby in a 50 long with nothing. Everyone has their own ideas on good husbandy but I think it's safe to say that's way too big and stressful for a tiny ball python. It was no wonder the guy couldn't get him to eat. So often o see this and I want to scoop them all up. I don't understand the, "I don't have time to play with him anymore," reasons either. I see it all the time. I'm going to stop ranting now lol.
-
It's not limited to snakes, you see people selling all animals without really questioning where they are going or how well they will be cared for. I've only had one breeder question my knowledge and setups, every other one has been more of a pick an animal, send money, get snake kind of deal. I do think some general questions are a good idea but some people are accomplished liars, plus even if you do sell to a good owner, six years down the line that snake could have changed hands a dozen times over. Doesn't seem like very many pets end up sticking around in their original home for very long.
-
From my experiences selling animals at expos, the best that you can do is take some time to vet the individual, provide them with written basic husbandry information, and make yourself available if they have any questions. Although infrequent, I have refused sales multiple times to individuals who seems completely uninformed about the species they were about to purchase, and were adverse to learning anything about their care. I would rather hold onto an animal than let it go to someone that is obviously not ready to own it. That being said, someone has to come across as an overtly horrific potential owner for me to refuse selling to them. As stated previously, people can lie about their experience level and how they plan on caring for the animal. As a breeder you would drive yourself insane if you perseverate over every single sale. Taking time to weed out the obvious bad sales is the best we can do.
As a breeder I also take it as my responsibility to be available for questions once the animal is home. I find that providing written information is much better than just telling the person. Most people in the excitement of buying the snake, and the expo in general, do not retain a lot of what you have said. There is a lot of outdated and bad information on the internet, as we all know, so the last thing you want your customer doing is pulling up some old care-sheet from an outdated source and going down the wrong path.
Because I am a very small time breeder I have the time to quickly answer most inquiries whether by phone or email. After my first expo I actually agreed to visit one of my customer's houses, and help them re-setup their enclosure. However, I wont be doing this again in the future.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Many years ago my wife and I were in a pet store in our hometown that "specialized" in reptiles and we overheard the owner telling a mom and her young son that a juvenile common Boa Constrictor makes a great pet that only gets to about 4 feet and needs a small aquarium to house it. I also recently noticed someone on a social media site looking for "feeder corns or balls" and I'm sure that some nice person will sell him some of their surplus "trash snakes." I like my snakes more than I like some people.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak Steve
Many years ago my wife and I were in a pet store in our hometown that "specialized" in reptiles and we overheard the owner telling a mom and her young son that a juvenile common Boa Constrictor makes a great pet that only gets to about 4 feet and needs a small aquarium to house it. I also recently noticed someone on a social media site looking for "feeder corns or balls" and I'm sure that some nice person will sell him some of their surplus "trash snakes." I like my snakes more than I like some people.
Disinformation in pet shops is rampant. Almost unbelievable. When I purchased my first snake in the mid 1990s I bought it from a pet shop. It was an adult corn snake. I was sent home with a 55 gallon tank, under-tank heater that I was told is "plug and go" AND a 150 watt infrared heat bulb with a giant deep dome. Without the internet at that point, it was hard to get easy access to information. One bad shed after the next compelled me to seek out some experienced people. Luckily my mom was an animal lover and helped me figure out how to properly care for the snake, regardless of the horrific info the pet shop gave me.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Just yesterday a new employee at the company that I work for told me that he has been feeding his daughter's corn snake one live mouse once every three months for two years. He said that is what he was told to do and he seemed slightly horrified when I told him that every 10 to 14 days is more appropriate for an adult corn. How that snake didn't starve is a miracle and I'm hoping that he takes my advice. It's very sad to think of how many defenseless creatures, including young humans, that are improperly cared for every second of every day. The best we can do is try to educate the well meaning folks and hope that we don't run across the other type of person.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak Steve
I also recently noticed someone on a social media site looking for "feeder corns or balls" and I'm sure that some nice person will sell him some of their surplus "trash snakes."
Kinked babies are often sold or given away as feeders. Also ball pythons were commonly used as feeder snakes before morphs were discovered.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
I know that kinked snakes are sometimes used as feeders as well as "unimportant" species like garters and water snakes or "worthless" normal ball pythons. I have no problem with a zoo using captive bred common snakes as feeders in a captive breeding program for an endangered or threatened species but I have zero respect for someone who keeps snakes that require live feeder snakes just because they think that their King cobra or other ophiophagus snake is "cool" or that they are too inept or to bloodthirsty to get the snake on a different prey animal.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak Steve
I know that kinked snakes are sometimes used as feeders as well as "unimportant" species like garters and water snakes or "worthless" normal ball pythons. I have no problem with a zoo using captive bred common snakes as feeders in a captive breeding program for an endangered or threatened species but I have zero respect for someone who keeps snakes that require live feeder snakes just because they think that their King cobra or other ophiophagus snake is "cool" or that they are too inept or to bloodthirsty to get the snake on a different prey animal.
In all seriousness, could you please clarify to me how this is different from feeding live rats to a morph ball python?
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak Steve
I know that kinked snakes are sometimes used as feeders as well as "unimportant" species like garters and water snakes or "worthless" normal ball pythons. I have no problem with a zoo using captive bred common snakes as feeders in a captive breeding program for an endangered or threatened species but I have zero respect for someone who keeps snakes that require live feeder snakes just because they think that their King cobra or other ophiophagus snake is "cool" or that they are too inept or to bloodthirsty to get the snake on a different prey animal.
I personally know 2 different people who keep hots, cobras included, who do so for the love of the hobby and love of the snakes, not because it's "cool". Their passion may not be the same as yours but they still have just as much right to follow it as you do.
-
Feeding a rodent that has a very limited lifespan and is a completely different animal than a snake is, to me, like us eating pork or beef. Feeding a potentially long lived snake to another snake purely because you find your snake eater fascinating, to me, is not so different than someone who throws a weak little mutt to a fighting dog because they find it fascinating or profitable. Keeping hots is a personal choice, if it's even legal in your state or town, and I know there are quite a few people that are competent keepers but there are also keepers who are not like the guy posting shots of himself with a Gaboon on his lap. Would you want your family living next door to an incompetent fool with a mamba? Excess healthy snakes just points to the fact that there are too many people breeding too many animals just like people are breeding too many cats and dogs.
-
Re: ??Do people care who buys there animals any more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayak Steve
Feeding a rodent that has a very limited lifespan and is a completely different animal than a snake is, to me, like us eating pork or beef. Feeding a potentially long lived snake to another snake purely because you find your snake eater fascinating, to me, is not so different than someone who throws a weak little mutt to a fighting dog because they find it fascinating or profitable. Keeping hots is a personal choice, if it's even legal in your state or town, and I know there are quite a few people that are competent keepers but there are also keepers who are not like the guy posting shots of himself with a Gaboon on his lap. Would you want your family living next door to an incompetent fool with a mamba? Excess healthy snakes just points to the fact that there are too many people breeding too many animals just like people are breeding too many cats and dogs.
Lets not start this bullcrap circular argument where no one agrees and everyone gets ticked off. Lets all just disregard this comment and move on. My reply to this post will be below.
-
I've got to take a second to reply to this.
The "Big Chain" pet stores have really come a long way. Much of the health of the reptiles in those stores is reliant on how much knowledge the person has on reptiles. Best case scenario you have someone working there who at the very least has a wealth of book knowledge on at least one group of the animals. When I was in high school and working at pets supplies plus I was the resident "reptile dude" as well as one of the managers. There was an employee who knew a crap load about birds, another knew about small animals. This allowed our store to bring in some really cool animals that many other stores couldn't. I went back to that same store when I got home from the military and discovered the reptile manager guy had moved on somewhere else. And now, I don't even like walking into that store for fear of contamination from their horrid conditions, mostly because the cages are dirty and disgusting. This brings me to my next point.
The days of getting really cool species into the big chain stores are over but this is a good thing, these stores will have the the following species at any one time: Ball Pythons, Bearded Dragons, Leopard Geckos, Corn Snakes, Milk or King snake, Veiled Chameleon, Crested Geckos, Fire Bellied Toads (in the fish section), Green/Brown Anoles, Long Tailed Lizards and Green Treefrogs. You'll see the occasional Tarantula, Pac Man Frog and Boa Constrictor. Then on the bottom you'll have Map/Side Neck Turtles or Russian Tortoises. I may be forgetting one or two. But this has been my experience. All of these species can be kept reasonably well in the starter packs they sell for 150 or some odd dollars. The only thing missing from those setups is the thermostat, other than that the one decor item they provide does tend to leave things a bit bare IMO but I digress. The beardie setups are too small and the leopard gecko setups utilize a heat lamp instead of a heat pad which while unnecessary isn't exactly a death sentence.
When we compare that to the "home grown" store in the area, they are the ONLY store that sells Iguanas. 12 dollar iguanas are more sentenced to death than any of the "cheapo Green Tree Frogs/Anoles/Long Tail Lizards. Their cages make the previous mentioned dirty Pet Supplies Plus look like the Cleveland Zoo with how disgusting they are, you can check my review of Harbor Pets in Boardman Ohio on google if interested.
The point I'm trying to make is that the majority of these stores have decided to focus on a 15-20 species of beginner-lower level intermediate level and started selling these kits in the interest of trying to make sure that their animals get at least an OK set up right from the get go. Other places are just trying to do what they can to stay afloat, bad economy equals people spend less on pets and the like.
Now onto the second part about screening set ups and things like that. The question I have to that is, what are your standards? There are some people who see my snakes' (Baird's Rat Snakes) large naturalistic setups and think that I'm a moron because I don't keep them on paper towels with two hides, one hot spot and a water bowl. Then if I were to ask the same when someone buys my snakes and see they have a paper towel setup but didn't spend a bunch to make cool set ups like mine? Should I tell them no? When my snakes move to their adult cages they will have overhead spot light heat set on dimmers to mimic sunrise noon and sunset (not sure on this one yet depends on how I do my substrate, there will also be plants in there.
Some people would actually accuse me of bad husbandry.
I know some companies, Deer Fern Farms that sell Uromastyx and several other types of lizards and a few tortoise species that won't sell you an animal till they see your setup and are sure that you know what you are doing. This makes sense because Uromastyx are one of the most abused by the pet trade (reputation as being difficult to breed in captivity etc has made the constant collection of them from the wild necessary to supply the trade). They are really hoping that their lizards succeed where they send them.
Now a take a corn snake or leopard gecko etc, we can breed these in massive quantities to supply the pet trade. This is preferable to taking them from the wild in every way and is a necessary conservation effort. We all know (breeders, pet stores, etc) that a lot of them probably won't make it. This isn't any different from the wild however dying slowly from bad husbandry is a lot worse I'd say. BUT this is a necessary evil because taking the animals from the wild is worse.
One last thing before I cut this all short, you can tell how good a store is by looking at all of the cages and seeing if they let droppings gather. A few here and there is normal, but if all the cages have it. Steer clear.
-
Well this thread got derailed... Back on topic anyone? I'm sure someone can start a big chain hate thread instead of voicing your opinion about it here.
|