Companies known for humane treatment

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows of any feeder supply companies that have reputations for providing their feeders with quality lives? By this I mean ample room for the rodents and proper treatment, not crammed living situations like the animals we eat! I don't want to buy any rodents from companies that treat their mice/rats like we treat our cattle/chickens. Here's what I mean: Meet Your Meat

Anyone have any references?

Thanks

Ohh my gosh........i just watched that video, i had to turn it off, it was so disturbing. I didnt even get all the way threw it.

I really dont know what to say about that. Thats just horrible.The last minutes/hours/days must be hell for those poor animals :cry:

wow, i feel horrible, yet i still drink milk and eat eggs and meat. argh i am disgusted

oh my gosh that is so sad and i love milk and i was drinkin some when i watched this, omg i feel so bad im disgusted too!

The best way I know of to ensure that your feeders weren't raised like the animals in feed lots and similar is to raise them yourself, as some of us here are doing or trying to do.

raise em yourself or get em from a good petstore.

i usually go to petco and pick out a lively, healthy looking mouse, and then gas the poor critter.

How much money/time would you say it takes to breed mice and rats?

Relatively inexpensive. I have rats and won't have mice (again) because of the stink factor, though others will tell you if you clean obsessively the odor isn't a problem. I feed my rats a mix of Ol' Roy dog food (the only dog food that's ok because of its lack of dyes, though the WalMart connection may put you off), uncooked & unsalted peanuts, rodent lab blocks (buy in bulk if you can because chain pet stores mark it waaaay up), fresh fruit and veggies as available (apple cores, for example, since my kids miss a lot of the apple meat when they eat), and occasional other treats (corn, sunflower seeds, etc.). I think we use about 1.5 cups a day of the mixture for 6 rats (1 full-grown, 5 subadult to young adult), plus the other stuff as noted.

The 5 rats are in a cage we got for free, and the other one is in a cage I built for less than $20, and both cages have (free) newspaper substrate, water bottles, and freebie-type hides like tissue boxes. Not counting caging and caging accessories which is going to vary all over the place according to your choices, I think it runs less than $1 a day for all 6 rats.

Edit: I should have mentioned that it's a good idea to have separate cages for males and for weaned juvies by sex, and I do have those available, just no need to have them set up that way until someone is pregnant.

Great, thanks!

You're welcome. :)

Yikes, that video upset me. I am not a vegetarian, but I try to avoid beef and other storebought meat a lot because, not only is it from farms like those on the video, but also because they pump all sorts of hormones, etc. into those animals. My boyfriend hunts, and he will usually get 2-3 deer each year (got three so far) and we use that ground up for tacos and pasta dishes, and eat steaks and jerky frrom that too.
At least I know that the deer he shoots, do not suffer and live a life like the factory-farmed animals do.
I think that these videos were all made at big "factory farms." I know a lot of farmers in my area that do not use methods that are so cruel. Their cows seem happy and are allowed "free range" which means they can graze all spring and summer. In winter they are put into a barn at night and sometimes allowed to go outside if the weather is not horrendous. I think that we're going to consider buying a side of beef from our friends who have about 20 cattle and raise them under humane conditions.
I "grow" my own rats and mice too. It really is not hard. I use aspen shavings as a substrate and change that once weekly. I feed them these lab blocks that I get at my friend's pet store (not sure of the name.) The shavings are $3 a bag and I use roughly three bags a month, and feed is $4 a bag, and a bag is good for a month too.
Right now I have two preggo female rats, and one preg mouse, with another mouse that has 14 babies. It is definately worth a try! As long as a male and female are left together for long enough (mice go into heat every three days, rats every 5) then you should get success. But avoid getting rats from fancy breeders, who often neuter them.

To answer your original question Guitrage; if I were you, I would look at the sites of the people selling rats, and see how their cages are set up, if they have photos.
One thing I just thought of; it would be harder for rat breeders to skimp on their animals' housing, than it is for factory farmers. The rat breeders Have to give you a quality rat, that looks good and is not all full of sores or missing limbs, etc. But the meat we get from FFs is processed beyond recognition. Just a thought.

Our rats from breeders weren't neutered, but if we breed them, they will most likely be taken away. Rat breeders put alot of time and effort into making clean bloodlines and having a good pedigree. Our 2 have pedigrees that follow all the way back to their great-great-grandparents, and no inbreeding has resulted. If you want to breed rats for feeders, just go to a petstore, get a male and a female, grow them up a little, until they are at least a couple months old, then you can breed them. If you buy a rat from a breeder, it will be just a pet, you can't breed it, sell it to anyone, nothing. Besides, breeders usually charge $15-$30 for one rat, when you can go to the petstore and get feeder rats for $5 or so.

Just my $0.02 on it all.

Also, PETA has a habit of lying through their teeth alot... Animals are rarely kept that way anymore, and if they are, it's for space constraints. Dairy cattle are pretty aggressive, one ran my teacher into a fence. But they are kept very humanely, in big stalls and usually with rubber pads on the floor while they are being kept inside. Most aren't kept inside, like Gin said, and usually are given free run of pasture. If they were kept inside all of the time, they wouldn't be able to lactate...

If you are looking for humane places, try Gourmet Rodent, Rodent Pro, Big Cheese Factory, all of those should be good places. Just remember, you got that video from PETA... enough said..

LOL your experience with dairy farms is most likely local companies; when was the last time you visited a major corporate farm? As for justifying it by saying that there are space constraints, what a load of BS! If you only have so much room, that means you can only humanely house this many animals, it doesn't mean cram more in there because you don't want to pay for proper housing!

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Dairy cattle are pretty aggressive

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Oh, OK. Now I see why it's OK to abuse them.

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Also, PETA has a habit of lying through their teeth a lot...

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Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they're lying.

By no means does not being human mean that an animal doesn't deserve humane treatment. Some of us think we're so special and that other animals are just here to serve us. I feel bad for you if you are one of them, but I feel even worse for the animals who suffer as a consequence of your views.

This is starting to veer off topic into potentially flammable territory. The topic was companies that treat feeder rodents humanely, or what to do if you are unsure if a company treats feeder rodents in accord with your standards.



For what it's worth, I could do without both corporate farms and PETA, so I am not trying to pick a side.

OK, back on the topic of breeding rodents. SatanicIntention - why can't we breed rats from a breeder and feed the offspring to our snakes? Is it because the breeders have worked hard to obtain a pure bloodline and we're disrespecting that by using them as food, or what? I'm not criticizing, I'm curious. If I bred rats, I would want them to be as healthy as possible, and rats from a breeder would most likely be healthier than petstore rats.

When you buy a pedigree animal (dog, cat, etc) and if you decide all you want is a pet, you sign papers stating that you will never breed the animal etc. if you wish to breed the animal, you usually pay a completely different price, and then you can breed the animal.

You might be able to find somebody who is not breeding rats for show, and then would not require the entire contract.

You might want to check with some of the other forum member who breed their own food..maybe you could get babbies from one of them (if both parties were interested)?

Petstore rats can be just as healthy as a breeder's rats, you just have to take them to the vet and get them checked for parasites. It's not expensive. It's not that it matters anyway, since parasites aren't transferable to the snakes that eat them, but it would be healthier for the rat if it will be producing babies. Parasites are just another strain on the body, and you would want the babies to be as healthy as possible.

If you tell a breeder that you want to breed their rats for feeders, they will not sell anything to you. Also, breeders don't just breed rats to show them, they breed them for pets, and have worked long and hard to have healthy, clean bloodlines. Also, if you bought babies from a breeder, they would either be brother/sister from the same litter, or somehow related: same set of parents but born at different times. Ex: I have a male rat Willard, who is related to 1 of my friend's rats, and one of hers is related to another one of hers.

When I bought mine, I had to sign this huge contract stating that I wouldn't breed them, feed them off, sell them, feed them the wrong food, etc... It's at www.rattiusmaximus.com
And yes, it is disrespectful to breed purebred rats if you have already signed a contract that you will not breed them. My contract says that if I breed them, the rats will be taken away.

From alot of people, breeder quality rats are usually in the $30-$40 range. Why would you want to spend $60 to $80 on a pair of rats just to breed them for snake food? Wouldn't it be more economical to buy pet store rats, worm 'em and then start breeding? That's what I plan to do when my snake is bigger. Then I won't get attached to them since they are just white pet store rats. You can also email some rat breeders and ask them their opinion.

Or you could get them from a rat breeder who breeds rats for food.............

Ive seen too many sick rats at pet stores to ever buy another for feeding purposes. I would rather just get a healthy one, than get a sick rat and have to take it to the vet, esp a feeder rat.

Becky's statment is far more accurate than mine, as I have never bought rats from a breeder, and what I know about pedigree animals is based on my knowledge of my mom showing a St. Bernard before I was around.

:worship:

If that video upsets you,
Then buy your milk, and meats from local farms, free range chicken eggs can actually be bought in many larger shopping chains now adays.
We have a few cows and other agriculture up at my work. One is a bull calf. Meaning after his dairy cow mom had him, there was no point for the farmer to keep him. He can not produce milk, and he didn't want to waist his time raising our auctioning the calf for meat. So instead of having a vet come out to put him down(approx a 50$ cost around here) he tied him to a post, thats it just tied him out there on a 1 foot chain. He didn't find anything wrong with that, and sadly state officials didn't either (you would all be amazed at your statewide agriculture law) So before the calf died as he hung there (no food or water or room to lay down will do that to a cow after a certain period of time) My boss went and picked him up, now he lives on th Societies property. It's amazing what you learn just looking into your statewide agriculture law.
Then again, I'm not a farmer and it is not my living.
Rusty

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Originally Posted by guitrage

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows of any feeder supply companies that have reputations for providing their feeders with quality lives? By this I mean ample room for the rodents and proper treatment, not crammed living situations like the animals we eat! I don't want to buy any rodents from companies that treat their mice/rats like we treat our cattle/chickens. Here's what I mean: Meet Your Meat

Anyone have any references?

Thanks

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Thank you for posting that.
I think it’s awesome that you show concern for animals.

I have been looking into farms that do raise the animals humanely. In my search I contacted the humane society to see if they have lists or ideas and this was their response.
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Thank you for contacting The Humane Society of the United States.

There isn't a nationwide list of farms that raise and slaughter animals humanely. There are several ways of finding places to purchase organically raised items and humanely raised items. The best way to be sure that the animal was raised humanely is to talk with the farmer and ask questions concerning such topics as diet ( is the animal fed natural foods, antibiotics, grains, vegetables, animal byproducts) ; housing (does the animal have free range or is it caged or crated - if free-range then ask if it spends time outdoors or is farmer's version of free-range meaning that the animal has the freedom of a barn but doesn't actually go outside). You can find more information on these topics on our website www.hsus.org . Just enter "humanely raised" in the search box.

Finding out if the animal was humanely slaughtered is more difficult. Again, start with the farmer, if possible. Find out where the animal is slaughtered. If the farmer does it himself then he could tell you how humanely he does it. Was the animal stunned, insensitive to pain prior to being slaughtered. For more information on humane slaughter check out the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act ( http://www.animallaw.info/topics/spu...eslaughter.htm ) and again check out our website and list "Humane Slaughter Act" in the search box.

Here are some other websites that you should find helpful.

http://www.eatwellguide.org - The Eat Well Guide is a free directory of sustainably-raised beef, poultry, dairy and eggs from stores, farms and restaurants across the country. You can enter your zip code and search for places in your area or you can do a more "Advanced Search" where you not only enter your zip code but criteria such as the products (beef, chickens, turkeys,etc.) and methods used (such as cage-free / free-ranged-roaming / no added hormones / no antibiotics) then select farmers and stores.

This will bring up a list of places in your area ( from 5 miles to 50 miles away)

Local farmers markets are a very good place to purchase organically raised fruits and vegetables. Not only are you helping the local economy, but you have a chance to talk to the person who actually raised the food and find out how it was raised. Most farmers will gladly tell you if they are organic or use pesticides. Most farmers markets will have one or two farmers who raise animals in a humane environment.

Several supermarkets are starting to carry humanely raised items. If there is a Whole Foods store ( http://www.wholefoods.com/ ) in your area, you might want to check it out. But be sure to read the packages carefully to be sure the product you are interested in is humanely raised. Not all products carried by this food chain are humanely raised, but they do make sure that items carry appropriate labeling and they carry a large selection of humanely raised items. Again, there is no way of knowing if the animal was humanely slaughtered unless it is listed on the packaging.

http://www.organicvalley.coop - Several stores now carry Organic Valley products. Their website will not only give you more information about them but help you find a place near you that carries their products.

http://www.certifiedhumane.com/ - Citing growing consumer concern over the treatment of farm animals, Humane Farm Animal Care (HFAC), an independent nonprofit organization supported by a coalition of the nation’s leading animal protection organizations, today unveiled the “Certified Humane Raised & Handled” labeling and certification program. The new “Certified Humane” label on food packaging instantly assures consumers that meat, poultry, egg or dairy products come from animals raised at facilities meeting precise, objective, and humane standards for farm animal treatment.

http://vegweb.com/food/ - this site has a large selection of vegetarian recipes as does http://eartheasy.com/eat_vegetarian.htm and you can vegetarian and vegan resource information, including nutritional information at the Vegetarian Resource Group http://www.vrg.org/



Again, Thank you and I hope you find this information useful.

Sincerely
Peg McCarthy
Administrative Assistant
Farm Animals and Sustainable Agriculture
The Humane Society of the United States

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Hope that helps.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

What an awesome response! They really seem like they care and know what they're talking about. There are tons of great references in there, thanks so much for sharing it with us!

Your welcome!

I used to work at a hog confinement and it wasn't anything like what I saw in that video. Granted they aren't treated like your household pet, of all the different confinements I had been in (well over 20) None were like that. I think they chose some of the most extreme situations to show, which is bad that some of them are treated like that.

Yeah, I'm sure that the video is representative of the extreme conditions, and that not all places are like that. Still, if I can avoid it, I will.

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If you tell a breeder that you want to breed their rats for feeders, they will not sell anything to you

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That is very true. If you go onto any pet-rat forum, you are immediately demonized if you admit you own snakes.
I actually had trouble, back before I bred my own rats, buying them at one of my local pet stores. Seems there are people who will go in and buy the whole lot of rats, because they want to "rescue" them from becoming feeders! I could not imagine what these peoples' houses must look like, if they rescue that many rats and keep them as pets! But now that I breed my own, I know that they come from a healthy bloodline and are treated humanely in my care.

Regarding PETA, I really do not take their words as gospel truths. They are, after all, among the people who would love to make our reptiles illegal to own as pets. Check out this entertaining site! http://www.helpinganimals.com/Factsh...splay.asp?ID=9 Granted, many reptiles, especially imports, are kept in deplorable conditions and sold to ignoramus owners. And I actually found myself aggreeing with some of peta's opinions regarding the ignorance in the pet trade. but they make herps seem to be a ton of work, and they go on and on about how they're susceptible to diseases... like dogs and cats aren't?
Also, they do not allow for the excellent herp breeders out there, which is sad. I do not like this quote from their site: "

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Buying captive-bred animals only encourages breeders to replenish their stock.

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I know of several stellar breeders, and I gladly support them.