Baby feeding struggles!!

Hey guys!

I got a baby beep a couple weeks ago and she has been refusing to eat, which I had been expecting. This would have been her third week of no food, and she's slightly less than a month old, so I was starting to worry about her, although I know that BPs can go for quite some time w/o eating. I had been reading around and had seen things varying from 'you need to get this snake eating ASAP or it'll die' to 'It's fine, just leave her alone until she feels like eating' so today I decided to err on the side of caution, kinda, and I attempted an assist feed.

I should mention that she had been started on live rat pinks and I can't get those anywhere in my area whatsoever, nor can I get any live subadult rats or mice of any age, so my options are kinda limited on the live front. I defrosted a mouse fuzzy of considerable size and took her VEEEERY gently, I mean barely even holding her, behind the head, and just barely touched the little mouse fuzzy to her mouth and she went NOM and coiled around it and sucked it down super quick.

Now, I have attempted feeding f/t before (using tongs) with no success using multiple methods of heating the rat pup ranging from dunking it in super hot water right before offering it to blowing hot air on it with a hair dryer. I also managed to get a super super small adult mouse and I tried offering that to her, but there was no interest in it whatsoever. I should also mention that I had handled her twice - and that was when I first got her, and then once again to change out the paper towel in her tub that she had peed on. Other than that I have left her in her tub, secure with two hides and paper towel substrate and a good sized water dish with fresh water. Her temps are 90-91 at her hot spot and cool area I just checked is currently at 81. Humidity has been consistent at about 50-60% and i dont disturb her. When I first got her, she had a stuck shed on her butt that I got off very easily with a lukewarm, moist washcloth

OBVIOUSLY, I never want to have to assist feed ever again. Even though I was gentle and even though she took the fuzzy like a champ, I know it was stressful for her and I never again want to have to do that to her.

Do you guys have any suggestions for what might make it easier to get her to feed, or when I should start worrying about getting her to eat? I know that when she starts to lose 10-20% of her body weight I should be worried, but I really do not want to have to wait for her to get to that point, if it can be helped. Again, I got into this hobby knowing that beeps are notorious butt-pains with regard to being consistent feeders so I'm not opposed to doing anything and everything I can to help her thrive, so all suggestions are welcome.

If the consensus is that I need to calm down and not worry so much, I am fine with that and will do my best to do that too! In any case, I'm glad she's got food in her belly now, but I'd like to make it easier on her (and me) in the future.

Thanks!

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she's slightly less than a month old]

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This would have been her third week of no food

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I got a baby bp a couple weeks ago

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What this animal well started before you got it? Given the timeline I seriously doubt so. A well started animal is an animal that has ate 3 to 5 times consecutively, knowing that the first meal generally occur at 10 to 14 days after hatching.

This is a VERY young animal and yes you should worry, not worrying is fine when you have a bigger older animal but not one that young.

My guess is that it is food related and husbandry related so please do not assist this animal until everything else has failed assisting is not the solution at this point.

First if you have not done so

Get a 6 quarts tub, aspen bedding and a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer to use as an hide. Use about 1 inch of aspen in the tub. Provide temps no higher than 88 on the warm side.

Once you do that leave the animal alone for a week (NO HANDLING) and offer a LIVE hopper mouse in the enclosure. Yes it may be hard to find , and you might not want to feed live but all that does not matter (check CL and specialty reptile shop for live feeders), this is a young hatchling and it needs stimulation and it nees to start eating for you.

Until the animal eat for you NO MORE handling, once the animal is well established (5 consecutive meals min) you can start handling and attempt to switch food.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

What this animal well started before you got it? Given the timeline I seriously doubt so. A well started animal is an animal that has ate 3 to 5 times consecutively, knowing that the first meal generally occur at 10 to 14 days after hatching.

This is a VERY young animal and yes you should worry, not worrying is fine when you have a bigger older animal but not one that young.

My guess is that it is food related and husbandry related so please do not assist this animal until everything else has failed assisting is not the solution at this point.

First if you have not done so

Get a 6 quarts tub, aspen bedding and a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer to use as an hide. Use about 1 inch of aspen in the tub. Provide temps no higher than 88 on the warm side.

Once you do that leave the animal alone for a week (NO HANDLING) and offer a LIVE hopper mouse in the enclosure. Yes it may be hard to find , and you might not want to feed live but all that does not matter (check CL and specialty reptile shop for live feeders), this is a young hatchling and it needs stimulation and it nees to start eating for you.

Until the animal eat for you NO MORE handling, once the animal is well established (5 consecutive meals min) you can start handling and attempt to switch food.

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Gotcha. Yeah I haven't handled her hardly at all to begin with.

She is currently in a 6 quart tub and I will switch her over to aspen bedding after I leave her alone for a couple days. I've already decreased her temps. I have absolutely no issues feeding live whatsoever but there is quite literally nowhere in driving distance for me to get live hoppers or fuzzies, which is the main issue. I just checked craigslist and there are literally zero reptile specialty shops anywhere near me. Just regular old petco/petsmart, and they don't sell baby mice/rats.

I think that's my biggest frustration. I'll be going to the Milwaukee Repticon at the end of august so on the off chance that there are live feeders available for sale there, I'll definitely get them, but other than that I don't have many options.

Also no, I don't think she was well started. Originally I had ordered a male 2014 pied from Bob Clark but he accidentally shipped me the wrong animal. He offered to let me keep it and I was so enchanted with her (still am) that I chose to do that. Again like I said, I'll do anything and everything I can to help her thrive, so any input you can give me is helpful.

*THE* Bob Clark??

I'm not mistrusting what you say, but I have a hard time believing that he would make that kind of mistake (not just a mix-up of orders, but actually sending off a snake that was not yet ready to leave). Is there any other possible source of confusion here?

I would suggest you contact him again for assistance with her.

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Originally Posted by distaff

*THE* Bob Clark??

I'm not mistrusting what you say, but I have a hard time believing that he would make that kind of mistake. Is there any other possible source of confusion here?

I would suggest you contact him again for assistance with her.

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Yup, THE bob clark!

http://puu.sh/iVRbC/8db5137f81.png

This is NOT an attempt to badmouth him in any way, he's been 10000000000% awesome at communicating with me and I'm totally completely satisfied with how helpful he's been. I just do not want to keep bugging him as I know he is very busy and he's VERY kind for offering to let me keep her as I paid for a considerably less expensive snake! Mistakes do happen and I don't have any ill will towards him whasoever, I think he's amazing :)

In any case, yes, that's what's going on right now haha.

Also I should mention, I REALLY don't think he has anything to do with this little girl having issues feeding. If anything, it's entirely my fault & I am probably doing something really dumb by being worrisome.

As an addendum, I did contact him for assistance and his suggestion was to make sure that the rat pups were very hot, which they were (106) as i checked them with a temp gun. Here was our correspondence on the matter, if it helps:

http://puu.sh/iVRG0/a998bfa69c.png
I'm just not sure how much more assistance he can give me if that advice didn't work out :(

Well she has a meal in her now, so you have a bit of time. Are you sure her dates are correct... perhaps the situation is less critical than it looks. I assume you can keep track of her weight (ok, you are not supposed to handle her, but maybe you could get a weight while cleaning, if you have to move her anyway?)

I know what you mean about not wanting to bug people. I HATE and DREAD such things myself. Just send him an e-mail as an "update," and then ask the question. Some pics, if possible would be good too. Bob Clark is a breeder - if he is like any other breeder, he loves seeing updates and pics on the progress of the babies he sends off.

Best of luck to you and the little one.

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Originally Posted by distaff

Well she has a meal in her now, so you have a bit of time. Are you sure her dates are correct... perhaps the situation is less critical than it looks. I assume you can keep track of her weight (ok, you are not supposed to handle her, but maybe you could get a weight while cleaning, if you have to move her anyway?)

I know what you mean about not wanting to bug people. I HATE and DREAD such things myself. Just send him an e-mail as an "update," and then ask the question. Some pics, if possible would be good too. Bob Clark is a breeder - if he is like any other breeder, he loves seeing updates and pics on the progress of the babies he sends off.

Best of luck to you and the little one.

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Thank you for your encouragement. He's been awesome and I just sent him another email to see if he had any other suggestions in terms of getting her to feed. He never really gave me a hard date for when she hatched or how many meals he had managed to get in her before she was shipped off, so those were my main questions in this most recent email I sent him.

I'm gonna keep in close touch with him if he doesn't get sick of me :P I love this little girl to pieces and I want her to do well!

edit: i weighed her when I got her and she was at about 80-82 grams, but I didn't think about getting a weight on her when I fed her today, oops!

also not sure if it matters, but here is a picture of my gorgeous baby girl (this was before i had fed her today, i was in the process of cleaning out her pee pee paper towels and thought to get a nice snap:)

http://40.media.tumblr.com/a60b5826d...hvio4_1280.jpg

Beautiful girl!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

What this animal well started before you got it? Given the timeline I seriously doubt so. A well started animal is an animal that has ate 3 to 5 times consecutively, knowing that the first meal generally occur at 10 to 14 days after hatching.

This is a VERY young animal and yes you should worry, not worrying is fine when you have a bigger older animal but not one that young.

My guess is that it is food related and husbandry related so please do not assist this animal until everything else has failed assisting is not the solution at this point.

First if you have not done so

Get a 6 quarts tub, aspen bedding and a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer to use as an hide. Use about 1 inch of aspen in the tub. Provide temps no higher than 88 on the warm side.

Once you do that leave the animal alone for a week (NO HANDLING) and offer a LIVE hopper mouse in the enclosure. Yes it may be hard to find , and you might not want to feed live but all that does not matter (check CL and specialty reptile shop for live feeders), this is a young hatchling and it needs stimulation and it nees to start eating for you.

Until the animal eat for you NO MORE handling, once the animal is well established (5 consecutive meals min) you can start handling and attempt to switch food.

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This right here works very well. I had a young snake that refused food for over a month. I put her in a smaller tub with the apsen bedding. I left her alone for over a week and then I offered her a live rat pup. She has been eating f/t for me ever since I had to feed the live rat pup. I offered the f/t rat pup a week after she ate the live one.

Yeah but the main issue is that I simply do NOT have access to live rat pups. There aren't any places in driving distance from me that sell them :(

A minor issue you might have wanted to address before getting a BP? :rolleyes:
(I am in the same boat - which is why I don't have one.)

Your location says Chicago. If you are anywhere near there, there HAS to be something available somewhere. You might look up private rat/mouse breeders on Craig's list. Long term, you might also want to start you own breeding colony.

The BP breeder I corresponded with said that new born rabbits can work. There are lots of backyard bunny breeders. (I actually raise rabbits, but I can't guarantee a weekly supply suitably sized for a young snake - esp. during the summer months when they breed less reliably.)

Keep working on it.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

By the way, I am no expert, but that snake doesn't look skinny to me. (Maybe someone else can chime in if they see something of concern.) To my eye, she is vibrant and glowing. Breeding tells. She seems to be thriving, so you apparently have most of it right.

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Originally Posted by keebs

Yeah but the main issue is that I simply do NOT have access to live rat pups. There aren't any places in driving distance from me that sell them :(

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I thought petsmart/petco I sold hopper mice? If you can get a small hopper that would be the same as a rat crawler.




Sent from iPhone 6 using tapatalk :)

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Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I thought petsmart/petco I sold hopper mice? If you can get a small hopper that would be the same as a rat crawler.




Sent from iPhone 6 using tapatalk :)

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I didn't find any hoppers when I last went, but I did buy a live adult mouse - a very small one - and still she wanted nothing to do with it. I will keep trying!

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Originally Posted by distaff

A minor issue you might have wanted to address before getting a BP? :rolleyes:
(I am in the same boat - which is why I don't have one.)

Your location says Chicago. If you are anywhere near there, there HAS to be something available somewhere. You might look up private rat/mouse breeders on Craig's list. Long term, you might also want to start you own breeding colony.

The BP breeder I corresponded with said that new born rabbits can work. There are lots of backyard bunny breeders. (I actually raise rabbits, but I can't guarantee a weekly supply suitably sized for a young snake - esp. during the summer months when they breed less reliably.)

Keep working on it.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

By the way, I am no expert, but that snake doesn't look skinny to me. (Maybe someone else can chime in if they see something of concern.) To my eye, she is vibrant and glowing. Breeding tells. She seems to be thriving, so you apparently have most of it right.

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Thank you for the suggestions!

Unfortunately before I got her I was under the assumption that she would have already been started on frozen/thaw... which of course, is a sort of 'duh' move on my part! I admit that. Right now I'm just trying to figure out what to do and not kick myself too hard for dumb decisions.

I checked on craigslist already for rodent breeders but I didn't find squat - Not sure if I am just not searching the right words? Also I'm not in chicago exactly, my zip is 60073, so I'm in the suburbs.

Either way I'm going to keep searching and trying new things and see what sticks! Thank you for your input.

Have you tried calling smaller petshop chains and even aquariums? A lot of times they breed mice/rats and sell them.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

Have you tried calling smaller petshop chains and even aquariums? A lot of times they breed mice/rats and sell them.

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There are none in my area that reliably carry what I need. There are a few in chicago though, which is great because I'll be moving there at the end of july! So fingers crossed!

I know its a big time and decent amount of money investment, but breeding rats is the best thing I ever did for my snake. He hates frozen/prekill. I have only managed to get him to eat a prekill once and he was definitely not into it. Now he eats in frenzy, very excited anytime I offer. The quality of my rats are also superior to anything I could find locally, as most of the pet store feeder mice/rats are so malnourished. Plus, you get a bunch of cute fuzzy little rats to play with for a while :) I spent nearly $250 on my rat setup. 2 cages, water, food (now switched over to quality dog food, they love it and it makes their fur so soft!), a wheel, a ball they can run around the yard in, and a couple of huts. I have also got some really cool rat morphs from my basic pair of parent Asian rats. I'm not an expert by any means, but something about a fuzzy rat full of moms milk makes me think my snake is healthier and happier :rolleyes: Too top it off the rats are pretty smart and smell so much better then mice do. Just make sure to feed some pinkies off! I waited too long for them to grow and my single snake can't keep up. Luckily I have another baby coming who can help with the pinky part. My first litter of pups was 17 with 2 duds.

So I haven't updated this thread in a while but I can happily say that I finally got Mochi to take f/t and now she SLAMS them and eats like an absolute pig!! I'm 1000% sure that if I offered her more than one prey item per feeding, she'd take it happily. I just weighed her today and she's up to a whopping 374g- up from 87g when I got her!! She's getting so big and long and she's doing so well and I'm just really happy and proud of her, haha. She's such a great snake.

Here are some photos of her:

http://41.media.tumblr.com/91ccc09e7...hvio1_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/71e3aab4f...hvio2_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/9017daa16...hvio4_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/5ecc72ada...hvio6_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/746ef3ead...hvio8_1280.jpg