Too Many Clutches?

Hey everyone, as I've been starting to think about my breeding plans for the fall this question has been sitting in the back of my mind. So I will have about 10 or 11 females that are up to size this fall and could potentially lay clutches for me in 2016. They are mostly 2 gene animals except for one normal.

My question is, is 10 or 11 clutches too many for me to produce as a newcomer to the ball python scene? I'm concerned that I may not be able to sell the babies. I'm not worried about having a few extras that I'm not able to sell, but I really don't want to have my collection exceed around 20-30 animals that I will have permanently. I'm most certainly willing to take care of whatever I produce until it does sell, but if it is unlikely for me to sell 10 clutches worth of babies, then I will limit the number of pairings I do this fall.

Btw, I'm purely a hobby breeder. It does not matter if I make any money, but I simply want to improve the quality of my collection through my own holdbacks.

Thanks for any input!

Are you going to be able to care for ALL of them should none of them sell??
That is the same question I ask myself every time a pair up.

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Originally Posted by mwolf

My question is, is 10 or 11 clutches too many for me to produce as a newcomer to the ball python scene?

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If you have to ask, the answer is probably yes. ;)

Well figuring that a female could lay a first clutch from 4 to 10 eggs with the average being 6 or 7, and you have 11 females, how do you feel about having to feed 70+ hatchlings for upwards of a year or more as you try to sell them? You say you want 20 to 30 but could be pushing closer to 100 after one breeding season.

I would look very seriously at prioritizing your breeding plans. Look at what you might be able to selectively produce this year and how that would open up new directions with the collection you have for the next year and the next. You may find that some of the females are not needed after year one or year two because of what you produce. Glutting the market with animals you don't necessarily want or need right now, just loads up supply thus diminishing the demands and returns while causing you to increase your work load and expenses. It may even take some of the enjoyment out of it for you if it becomes overwhelming?

Just my $0.02 but you did ask.

You could try and make a relationship with some of your local pet stores and see if they would buy the babies from you at whole sale prices. I've got a couple local shops that will buy the extra babies from the two clutches I've got in the incubator.

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I mean, yes I will definitely be willing to care for all 70+ babies should I produce that many, but I would not want to produce them if I know I will never be able to sell them. I have no problem limiting the number of clutches I produce, but I figured with all of my females laying my chances at creating more snakes that I want for myself would be greater. Ultimately the animals' needs definitely come first for me, so I don't want to make a mistake that might cause the snakes to suffer.

I guess it comes down to how hard is it to sell hatchlings as a breeder that has not yet established a reputation? Do you guys think it is best for me to only shoot for 4 or 5 clutches next season and then maybe I can produce more the following year?

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Originally Posted by mwolf

I guess it comes down to how hard is it to sell hatchlings as a breeder that has not yet established a reputation?

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It's certainly not any easier. How hard are you willing to work to do so?

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Originally Posted by mwolf

Do you guys think it is best for me to only shoot for 4 or 5 clutches next season and then maybe I can produce more the following year?

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See my previous response. What's best for you is a you decision. If you aren't able to handle the responsibility involved (ALL aspects of it, good and bad), then what's best for the animals is for there not to be as many in the equation. ;)

Don't count your eggs before they pip. So far this year my results are:
Clutch #1 - 5 slugs 0 good eggs
Clutch #2 - 4 slugs 0 good eggs
Clutch #3 - 4 slugs 2 good eggs, 1 went bad, 1 pipped
Clutch #4 - 5 good eggs due to pip in couple of weeks
Clutch #5 - 3 good eggs due to pip next month

I also have four females that have been paired but haven't laid yet, all were acting gravid and then one started eating again last weekend. :rolleyes:

IMO pairing 5-10 ball python females each year is doable for a hobby breeder. I have more breeder females than that, I just don't breed them all each year. Same goes for my BCI's and BRB's.

In a few years when my retic females are big enough to breed I figure I'll only breed one or two females and no ball pythons that year, as my incubator just isn't big enough to hold more eggs than that.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Don't count your eggs before they pip. So far this year my results are:
Clutch #1 - 5 slugs 0 good eggs
Clutch #2 - 4 slugs 0 good eggs
Clutch #3 - 4 slugs 2 good eggs, 1 went bad, 1 pipped
Clutch #4 - 5 good eggs due to pip in couple of weeks
Clutch #5 - 3 good eggs due to pip next month

I also have four females that have been paired but haven't laid yet, all were acting gravid and then one started eating again last weekend. :rolleyes:

IMO pairing 5-10 ball python females each year is doable for a hobby breeder. I have more breeder females than that, I just don't breed them all each year. Same goes for my BCI's and BRB's.

In a few years when my retic females are big enough to breed I figure I'll only breed one or two females and no ball pythons that year, as my incubator just isn't big enough to hold more eggs than that.

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I have only had 4 clutches laid and only three hatch thus far. Three of the four clutches were to first time bred females and the results were 6, 9, 9, and 4. The 4 egg clutch is in the incubator but all eggs are viable at present. So that is 28 eggs or an average of 7 eggs per. Of the 24 eggs that went to term, only one was lost to a twisted umbilicus that wasn't caught early enough to save it. I know this is anecdotal, but it is my experience.

Is there a expo close to you? How big of a city do you live in.. I live in a small town and would be hard pressed to sell 10 snakes all year locally. But I'm 2 hours from Minneapolis and there are 5 expos a year at 50 for a table. It is well worth me driving there and getting a table.yes you might have to sell them a little cheaper than you like but you are selling and getting your name out there.

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Take the # of clutches you think you can get and multiply by 5 - can you care for those? Then realize that realistically you are going to get half that number of clutches/babies you aim for, and they won't all hatch at the same time.

Have you sold any snakes before? The sales cycle is exhausting and there are a lot of tire kickers and deal shoppers out there who will run you through cycles only to tell you they don't have any money. If that's not something you have time and energy for I would encourage you to limit the clutches.

I personally limit my clutches for this exact reason. I love hatching babies but hate selling them. What I do is try to find local shops and keepers who are interested to buy the babies wholesale. I sell all of my normals and single gene or lower pricetag animals to them for wholesale prices. The rest I keep for a few local expos and will post an ad here and there on classifieds in between the expos. I don't have a problem keeping them around for a while but that's because I try not to have more than a dozen hatchlings at once. All up to your own time, energy, financial limitations.

One last thing I would say sort of up on a soap box. Please do not pair up basic snakes or low gene pairings for common dom/codom genes. The market is totally saturated and you're barely going to make your money back on them if you're lucky. Try to limit the normal and basic babies as best you can. I can't tell you not to pair a spider and a pastel to try for bumble bees, but I can tell you that if you do and you get viable eggs you will have sunk more time and money into producing them than it will be worth.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Take the # of clutches you think you can get and multiply by 5 - can you care for those? Then realize that realistically you are going to get half that number of clutches/babies you aim for, and they won't all hatch at the same time.

Have you sold any snakes before? The sales cycle is exhausting and there are a lot of tire kickers and deal shoppers out there who will run you through cycles only to tell you they don't have any money. If that's not something you have time and energy for I would encourage you to limit the clutches.

I personally limit my clutches for this exact reason. I love hatching babies but hate selling them. What I do is try to find local shops and keepers who are interested to buy the babies wholesale. I sell all of my normals and single gene or lower pricetag animals to them for wholesale prices. The rest I keep for a few local expos and will post an ad here and there on classifieds in between the expos. I don't have a problem keeping them around for a while but that's because I try not to have more than a dozen hatchlings at once. All up to your own time, energy, financial limitations.

One last thing I would say sort of up on a soap box. Please do not pair up basic snakes or low gene pairings for common dom/codom genes. The market is totally saturated and you're barely going to make your money back on them if you're lucky. Try to limit the normal and basic babies as best you can. I can't tell you not to pair a spider and a pastel to try for bumble bees, but I can tell you that if you do and you get viable eggs you will have sunk more time and money into producing them than it will be worth.

Good luck!

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Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

I live in the Chicago suburbs so there are a lot of expos I could potentially try to sell at. I've only sold a couple of snakes so far, and I have to say it is the least fun part of the hobby. But I really do wanna produce the snakes that I want for myself, and undoubtedly there will be a lot of other snakes made in the process that I will have to sell.

As for pairing up lower end animals, I completely understand. Most of my females are 2 gene animals and I plan on only pairing nicer males to them. The "worst" pairing I'm thinking about making this coming season is a clown to a female spider because I want to produce het females that I can hold back.