Difference between a normal yellowbelly and bling yellowbelly?

Hi guys

Need a little help. How do you tell the difference between a normal yellowbelly and bling yellowbelly. A yellowbelly I am interested in is apparently of the bling line so the breeder says and I would like to know how to confirm this.

I think they are just different lines of the same morph, like Butter/Lesser, Banana/Coral Glow .

Yellow Belly is from Amir Soleymani, Bling Yellow Belly is from N.E.R.D and the Goblin is from Ralph Davis

I could be wrong but I think I am right :P

Ah I see. I noticed on world of ball pythons, that there are only 4 morphs with bling yellowbelly in them. Saying that, if the one I am interested is bling then I would potentially introduce a few new morphs with it.

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Originally Posted by MattyN

Ah I see. I noticed on world of ball pythons, that there are only 4 morphs with bling yellowbelly in them. Saying that, if the one I am interested is bling then I would potentially introduce a few new morphs with it.

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If it's a yellowbelly, then regardless if its bling line or not, its still a yellowbelly. It may just make certain morphs pop better because its a less a less used / genetically watered down morph.

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Originally Posted by Tsanford

If it's a yellowbelly, then regardless if its bling line or not, its still a yellowbelly. It may just make certain morphs pop better because its a less a less used / genetically watered down morph.

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If that's the case, then out of interest, why do they separate the two in world of ball pythons morph list ?

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Originally Posted by MattyN

If that's the case, then out of interest, why do they separate the two in world of ball pythons morph list ?

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Go look at axanthic for example, or albino. Both have different lines, with slight variation.

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In the end, if its a really nice looking yellow belly that you want to own, then go for it. The breeder calling it a bling yellow belly means he Probably got his breeder stock from Nerd.

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Originally Posted by MattyN

If that's the case, then out of interest, why do they separate the two in world of ball pythons morph list ?

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Different blood lines occur either by line breeding for specific qualities, or they come in as imports

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Originally Posted by Tsanford

Go look at axanthic for example, or albino. Both have different lines, with slight variation.

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Axanthics are different morphs, they make double hets when bred together.

NERD has a reputation for making existing morphs sound like something special, some I don't even think are morphs at all but polygenetoc traits. As for the bling yellowbelly...make your own decision on it but there was a thread on here before that showed better looking normal yellowbellys than anything bling.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Axanthics are different morphs, they make double hets when bred together.

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Wasn't listing the example for the point of which is recessive and which produces double hets.. I used the example to show that there are different lines of the same morphs that have slight variation and sifferences, but are in fact still the same morph. You have markus Jayne, vpi, tsk, jolliff; all are still axanthic, just different lines...

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I don't mind breeders giving new names to genes that are already established for a few reasons:
- They imported a new line, and some people are sticklers for "cross-breeding" (even though every morph is cross-bred hundreds of times over)
- Sometimes that gene they imported has weird health issues or other subtle issues that the established version doesn't... It's good to know the difference.. (wobble-less spiders for example, or the DADDY gene)
- Sometimes genes that do the same thing aren't compatible (Axanthic is a perfect example of this). People thought caramels and ultramels were identical (not sure how :rolleyes:...), but they're quite different!)
- Sometimes someone works on enhancing a particular gene to have specific traits. They want to let people know what stock they're from (goldblush mojaves, graziani / nerd pastels, sugars / calicos).

The major problem really is that people don't do their research and then end up incorrectly labeling the animals they have for sale depending on what they think the market price is for that snake, or simply out of ignorance.

Another potential problem is sometimes breeders won't say that their new line is not a new line, but a completely new and different mutation... Then later on down the road, when they end up being the same, it creates skepticism and causes confusion in the community on what the heck the animal actually is... Too many dishonest people ruining it for the people who legitimately prove something brand new.

Ralph Davis posted a video on his Tangerines and said they're essentially Orange Dreams.

Mike Wilbanks posted about a new line of Fire he imported, but didn't give it a fancy new name to delineate it. He just called it a fire lol.

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Originally Posted by Tsanford

Wasn't listing the example for the point of which is recessive and which produces double hets.. I used the example to show that there are different lines of the same morphs that have slight variation and sifferences, but are in fact still the same morph. You have markus Jayne, vpi, tsk, jolliff; all are still axanthic, just different lines...

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They are not the same morph in the way I see the word used in the hobby, but I guess morph really doesn't have a definition so anyone could see differently.

Perhaps pastel would be a better example.

This should have been coined the BLING YB. I'll name this something at the end of next year... It is a YB, but the brightest I've seen in days on end.
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/...ps42c37e55.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tsanford

Go look at axanthic for example, or albino. Both have different lines, with slight variation.

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There's a huge difference between "axanthic lines" which are mutations on different genes (non-allelic, not compatible) and "yellow belly lines" which, when bred together, still result in ivories (thus same gene: allelic if not identical mutations). Some 'albino lines' (toffee/candy and 'albino') are allelic and some 'albinos' are not in the same gene (lavendar albino).

Having heritable traits that are subtle (brighter color, more intense pattern disruption, etc) segregating along with a documented morph (pastel, mojave, albino) leads to 'line' names (Goldblush mojave, lemon pastel, high contrast albino, banded enchi).

World of Ball Pythons is like a dictionary - it helps the community document the language used to describe the animals and their pattern/color irregularities - the organizers there try to filter the noise from the truly heritable traits, but by no means is that resource capable of fine genetic mapping of polygenic traits. WoBP is amazing and beyond helpful, but don't think of it as proof that EVERY offspring from a 'line' will look the same - there's still huge variation in lots of morphs (calico, I'm lookin' at you!) let alone in the subtle lines.

If you're interested in purchasing a specific animal from a breeder, it's best to ask for pictures of the parents (and if you're buying a proven adult, ask to see the offspring too). Part of the addiction of BP breeding is in the mystery of these subtle differences within morphs. You've gotta catch 'em all. :gj: