Sigh. He's a diva.

Over the past almost two months that I've had my little pumpkin champagne I haven't been the most successful with feeding him. He doesn't seem to like striking his food. The successful feeds I've had were on the 9th and the 28th last month. The only way I've gotten him to eat was to leave the f/t rat in over night. I wouldn't worry about him eating this way if it were more consistent. He's only 216g but he definitely doesn't look like he's starving either, not losing weight. He has a nice round body and bright eyes, clear vents and nose (no obvious health problems from what I see). He started going into shed on the 4th so I wasn't too surprised that he didn't eat on that feeding week since he went into the blue on the 7th and finally shed on the 13th. It was a perfect shed and I was ecstatic, my wife was concerned over him eating and tried feeding him on the 15th but he wasn't interested, I tried feeding him yesterday on the 18th and he was interested but turned away from it. I follow the same schedule every time. I get the rat out at 6pm, let it thaw until around 8:30 and then wait until about 9 for it to get nice and dark in the room and try to offer. He seemed more concerned with coming out of the tank than the warm food I'm trying to give him. His humidity at the moment is sitting at 61%, 85 in his basking spot since it's still pretty early in the morning, 78-80 in his warm hide and 73-75 on his cool for the floor temps via heat gun. The ambient air is reading 78. Any suggestions? I feel as though I may just not be offering it right to him. I've gotten the most interest when I hold the rat by the scruff on all fours. But I've never once gotten him to strike it. Again I'd be fine with that if the little bugger would eat every week. I guess it's like they say, your very first snake will teach you a WORLD of patience.

edit: Oh I nearly forgot to mention that the size of the rats that I'm feeding him are between 20-24g. And they are the same ones I've gotten him to eat in the past.

If it gets to the point that you are worried and/or he's losing weight I would consider offering him a live rat of equal/slightly smaller size. I have a pastel that will not touch f/t no matter what I try but is a voracious feeder on live mice. she also will not eat a Norway no matter what I try. Only mice and asfs. Some snakes just are picky. Try live and see if anything changes. Just my two cents. Good luck with it!

Just a couple of things that stand out to me. Could you clarify what you mean by basking spot? Ball pythons don't need top heat, they need belly heat to aid in digestion. The floor temp in his hot hide should be 90 degrees and ambient tank temps should be around 80. Floor hide in the cool hide is usually not a concern as long as it is on the opposite side from the heating mat and allows them to get away from the heat and still be hidden. If he doesn't have a spot he can rest his belly that is 90 degrees it could contribute to food refusal. They are quite good at realizing when conditions are not ideal to digest and they will often refuse rather than risk the food rotting or being regurgitated.

You are right that it is normal for them not to eat while in blue or while shedding, and it sounds like he is in good health. Any time you are encountering food refusals you want to keep a close eye on their weight and make sure they are not losing too much. Their weight should stay about the same through fasting, with maybe just very slight loss of weight. Do remember that a loss of say 20 grams is almost nothing for a full grown ball python, but for one as little as yours it is a much bigger percentage. Keep the members here posted on his weight and progress because they will be able to tell you if he is entering the danger zone for weight loss and should be seen by a vet. I read somewhere that the record for a snake refusing food and recovering with no damage done was 22 months. Definitely don't panic over a few weeks of refusals, or even a month or two, as long as weight is stable and all other signs of health are in order. It could be something as simple as breeding urges, hormonal changes, or any number of natural explanations. That being said, I would absolutely ensure that the floor under one of his hides is 90. Basking heat doesn't aid in digestion the way belly heat does, so it would make sense that if he doesn't have that he might be more prone to refuse meals.

Best of luck and keep us posted, there are tons of very knowlegable keepers here who are always happy to help! :)

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Originally Posted by kiiarah

Just a couple of things that stand out to me. Could you clarify what you mean by basking spot? Ball pythons don't need top heat, they need belly heat to aid in digestion. The floor temp in his hot hide should be 90 degrees and ambient tank temps should be around 80. Floor hide in the cool hide is usually not a concern as long as it is on the opposite side from the heating mat and allows them to get away from the heat and still be hidden. If he doesn't have a spot he can rest his belly that is 90 degrees it could contribute to food refusal. They are quite good at realizing when conditions are not ideal to digest and they will often refuse rather than risk the food rotting or being regurgitated.

You are right that it is normal for them not to eat while in blue or while shedding, and it sounds like he is in good health. Any time you are encountering food refusals you want to keep a close eye on their weight and make sure they are not losing too much. Their weight should stay about the same through fasting, with maybe just very slight loss of weight. Do remember that a loss of say 20 grams is almost nothing for a full grown ball python, but for one as little as yours it is a much bigger percentage. Keep the members here posted on his weight and progress because they will be able to tell you if he is entering the danger zone for weight loss and should be seen by a vet. I read somewhere that the record for a snake refusing food and recovering with no damage done was 22 months. Definitely don't panic over a few weeks of refusals, or even a month or two, as long as weight is stable and all other signs of health are in order. It could be something as simple as breeding urges, hormonal changes, or any number of natural explanations. That being said, I would absolutely ensure that the floor under one of his hides is 90. Basking heat doesn't aid in digestion the way belly heat does, so it would make sense that if he doesn't have that he might be more prone to refuse meals.

Best of luck and keep us posted, there are tons of very knowlegable keepers here who are always happy to help! :)

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Thank you for the feedback. What I meant by basking spot was the top of his hide temperature. The surface is 90. I did however go out today and buy an UTH for him. I bought the exoterra and I have the digital probe inside his warm hide. So far it's up to 87 inside his warm according to the thermometer and the ir gun. Feeding day is in 2 days so fingers crossed. Maybe with this increase in heat I might even get a strike out of him. He's almost a full year old and I'm so excited to see him get bigger.

Are u regulating the uth with a thermostat? If not unplug it right now they can get above 110° and can and will burn snakes.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Are u regulating the uth with a thermostat? If not unplug it right now they can get above 110° and can and will burn snakes.

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Oh no, its on a tstat. I should have mentioned that I had it on one. Sorry for any unnecessary worries. Thanks for your concern. :) Feeding day tomorrow fingers crossed. Let's hope the temp makes a difference.

Getting slightly more concerned. He didn't eat for me last night either even with his warm hide being 88-90 and the coldest temp in his tank being 77. Humidity was 65 throughout the night. He was interested in the rat at first when I was trying the zombie jig but turned away after a little bit of watching. Last times I got him to eat I did the zombie jig, he realized it was there and after about 20 minutes of dancing I would leave it on the lip of his warm hide and go to work. (I work graveyard shift.) My wife would send me a text at around 11:30-12 that it was gone. I was rather sad to see it was still there when I got home last night. When I weighed him last on the 13th he was 216g. I weighed him after disposing of his rat this morning and he is down to 208g. Gonna be calling the vet later today for an appointment I believe.

I'd try feeding live. I'm lucky in that both of my bps take f/t beautifully but if I was in your situation, I would try feeding live. You can always work on switching to f/t later. Getting the snake to eat if it's losing weight is most important I think.

I wouldn't call a vet just yet. That's going to add more stress to the situation. Have you tried live yet. Pics of his tank would be great there are way more options then to rush of to the vet. 216 to 208 is nothing. Did he deficate, urates?

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He hasn't had a bowel movement since his shed which I've read is normal for these guys. He had urates a couple days ago and they were cleaned out immediately and were pure white. Last night he just seemed more concerned with coming out of the tank than looking at the food.

Live is going to be the next attempt, f/t is what he's eaten for me before but he may just be being picky. I honestly don't know.
http://i59.tinypic.com/dlkcco.jpg
Here is his tank currently. The hide on the left seems big but he likes to squeeze himself up inside of it as the sides come nice and low so he gets a nice tight fit in there. He uses both of his hides and will go to his cool hide on the warmer days here. I've used newspaper before to make them smaller and he won't touch them if anything is inside of them. His hides are also where he's eaten in the past so I'm not really sure that would be the problem.

Also a couple pictures of him from last Saturday. As said in the original post, he's got a nice round body, I'm just concerned. He's my first snake so I'm fretting a lot over him. He's going to be a year old here in the middle of August.
http://i62.tinypic.com/huj9jr.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1znv9r5.jpg

Ok just a few thing I see that I would suggest. First off the small weight loss was probably the urates. Second I would take some black construction paper and cover the sides and back of the tank. Third if you haven't tried live and he's looking healthy (witch he dose) I would not go to the vet... Another method I use with my pickets eater was a live rat pup in a small Tupperware container over night. This picky eater was born 3/14 and just hit the 250g Mark.now the last month he has not refused a meal. How are you heating the feeder up? Are you sure it is hot enough. And have you ever tried a different substrate ? I have broken 7 month fast by simple changing his tank from paper towel to eco earth. Don't worry so much as they can go a long time with out food. Keep handling sessions to a bare minimum until it eat a few times. And only offer once a week.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Ok just a few thing I see that I would suggest. First off the small weight loss was probably the urates. Second I would take some black construction paper and cover the sides and back of the tank. Third if you haven't tried live and he's looking healthy (witch he dose) I would not go to the vet... Another method I use with my pickets eater was a live rat pup in a small Tupperware container over night. This picky eater was born 3/14 and just hit the 250g Mark.now the last month he has not refused a meal. How are you heating the feeder up? Are you sure it is hot enough. And have you ever tried a different substrate ? I have broken 7 month fast by simple changing his tank from paper towel to eco earth. Don't worry so much as they can go a long time with out food. Keep handling sessions to a bare minimum until it eat a few times. And only offer once a week.

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Alright, I'll try taking the construction paper to the tank. The way I heat up his feeders is by a blow dryer and I double check their temps to be around 98 and the head at around 100-105 with the ir gun. Are rat pups at the age where they could give him a serious bite? I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable leaving him alone with it. I'm also a little concerned with what I could change his substrate to. I have him on the carpet because I live in a really humid climate and now without the ceramic heat emitter his humidity may get a bit too high. Any suggestions on what I could change it too that wouldn't make the humidity skyrocket?

Aspen shavings. When I say rat pups I men rats that haven't opened their eyes yet and they won't harm they snake.

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This may or may not be a factor in your situation, but you said he is nearing a year old. I recently went through a 4 week refusal period with my guy (which I never did fully figure out the reason behind) and he was exhibiting some of the same behaviors you mentioned. What stood out to me in particular was that you said he seems more concerned with coming out and exploring than eating. This is exactly what my guy was doing. Normally he would have his head poking out of his hide at feeding time and I could just dangle the rat and he would nail it. During his refusal period he would wake up and immediately start climbing the walls (literally). He seemed so focused on wandering the tank that even when I had a rat right in front of him he would pay no attention, even slithering directly over the top of it to get to the other side of his tank at times. He would also immediately start to try to slither up my arm or out of the enclosure when I reached in to feed him. Someone on here suggested it may be breeding behavior. It is not uncommon for ball pythons to go off feed during breeding season. This person pointed out that even though technically it is not breeding season right now, in the wild they rely on temperature cues (how low the temps get at night for instance) to know when it is breeding season. Since we keep them at stable temps in captivity they have no good cues to judge by and pretty much make their best guess and start looking for a mate almost at random, but often around 1 year of age (though this varies some). If there was a cold front recently or for some reason his temps in the tank changed right before this started it could have something to do with it.

That being said, I would definitely keep the belly heat. Kudos on use of a thermostat, love seeing responsible and well educated keepers! Also it is wise to cover the 3 sides of the tank, simply because you can never have too much security for them and you may as well rule it out as a reason. Your snake will thank you for the added privacy. Like I said, I don't know what did it for my guy. I just kept offering each week and sure enough after about a month and a shed he ate and has been going strong ever since. It may well have been a breeding/hormonal thing though. One other tip, as strange as it sounds, you could try dipping the rats head in tuna juice before blow drying it. Sometimes the added scent will provoke a stronger feeding response. I did have some difficulty with my guy shortly after getting him home. I used the tried the tuna juice scenting just on the off chance that it might make a difference and it sure seemed to get him eating steadily. It may have been a coincidence, but I have heard a few different people confirm success with this method. If you have some canned tuna (in water) lying around, try draining the juice into a cup or ziplock bag and use it to scent it next time you feed. Who knows, it may help.

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Originally Posted by kiiarah

This may or may not be a factor in your situation, but you said he is nearing a year old. I recently went through a 4 week refusal period with my guy (which I never did fully figure out the reason behind) and he was exhibiting some of the same behaviors you mentioned. What stood out to me in particular was that you said he seems more concerned with coming out and exploring than eating. This is exactly what my guy was doing. Normally he would have his head poking out of his hide at feeding time and I could just dangle the rat and he would nail it. During his refusal period he would wake up and immediately start climbing the walls (literally). He seemed so focused on wandering the tank that even when I had a rat right in front of him he would pay no attention, even slithering directly over the top of it to get to the other side of his tank at times. He would also immediately start to try to slither up my arm or out of the enclosure when I reached in to feed him. Someone on here suggested it may be breeding behavior. It is not uncommon for ball pythons to go off feed during breeding season. This person pointed out that even though technically it is not breeding season right now, in the wild they rely on temperature cues (how low the temps get at night for instance) to know when it is breeding season. Since we keep them at stable temps in captivity they have no good cues to judge by and pretty much make their best guess and start looking for a mate almost at random, but often around 1 year of age (though this varies some). If there was a cold front recently or for some reason his temps in the tank changed right before this started it could have something to do with it.

That being said, I would definitely keep the belly heat. Kudos on use of a thermostat, love seeing responsible and well educated keepers! Also it is wise to cover the 3 sides of the tank, simply because you can never have too much security for them and you may as well rule it out as a reason. Your snake will thank you for the added privacy. Like I said, I don't know what did it for my guy. I just kept offering each week and sure enough after about a month and a shed he ate and has been going strong ever since. It may well have been a breeding/hormonal thing though. One other tip, as strange as it sounds, you could try dipping the rats head in tuna juice before blow drying it. Sometimes the added scent will provoke a stronger feeding response. I did have some difficulty with my guy shortly after getting him home. I used the tried the tuna juice scenting just on the off chance that it might make a difference and it sure seemed to get him eating steadily. It may have been a coincidence, but I have heard a few different people confirm success with this method. If you have some canned tuna (in water) lying around, try draining the juice into a cup or ziplock bag and use it to scent it next time you feed. Who knows, it may help.

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Thanks for your reply and suggestions. Thursday was feeding day again and to no avail. Completely ignored the rat and crawled out onto me. He curled around my hand and just settled right down for a good 10-15 minutes. He was calm for a little while after I put him back in and then he was back to trying to find his way out at the top again. I've noticed that he's been waking up about an hour earlier since I covered the sides of the tank but I'm figuring that's because the tank was made darker due to the covering. His behavior sounds a lot like you described for your little guy. He wakes up and is immediately go go go. Usually he's kinda lazy about waking up, poking his head out of his hide for at least two to three hours before dusk and then once it's completely dark he's coming out to poke around not insistent on getting out of the tank. Now that you mention it, it was pretty cool when he was going into shed. I called the vet to ask for advice and they mentioned soaking him to help encourage him to eat but I've never heard of this and I'm honestly not too keen on trying it because I don't see how that would make a difference in his eating and he doesn't seem to like dipping himself in water too much anyway. I still catch him drinking water and he's still passing urates. Weighed him again yesterday and he is at 205g. The vet also said this wasn't the time that males go off feed for breeding and was suggesting I bring him in to see if there were underlying health problems or parasites. When I've seen his stool there were no signs of any parasites so I doubt that would be a cause and as I've mentioned previously I'm being hyper sensitive about getting a look at his nostrils and vents and there's no mucus or saliva. No wheezing or popping from his breathing either. I'll try giving the tuna juice a go this coming Thursday and see how it goes. If he doesn't seem interested I'm gonna brain the thing and see if there's a difference then. I tried to find a live rat from the store I buy his feeders from but they don't carry any that small so I'll have to go looking somewhere else if I wanna attempt a live.

Wish I could calm down about him but I'm worrying a lot. He's my first snake and I don't know what else I could be doing wrong for him. Guess I'm more stressed because I'm not used to a pet who only eats once a week where as most other animals who even miss a day or two of meals is a cause for worry.

How big is the tank?. I'm sure that snake was in a rack before you got it probably no bigger than 12qt. That's another thing to think of. Did u ask the breeder what he was feeding it on? I would do anything you can to get a live mouse or rat pup. mouse hoppers are sometimes the best

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

How big is the tank?. I'm sure that snake was in a rack before you got it probably no bigger than 12qt. That's another thing to think of. Did u ask the breeder what he was feeding it on? I would do anything you can to get a live mouse or rat pup. mouse hoppers are sometimes the best

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His tank is 12w x 30l x 18h. She told me he was on large rat fuzzies. I figured that would be a rat pup. What I've been offering him are pups that are around 20-24g.

Did she say live or f/t

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I would offer a smaller live options before you go to a vet, sometimes that's an easy fix. I've got two 2015 short tails right now about that size and the female eats great, strikes immediately, the male wants it left in his hide, ate great the first couple weeks f/t rat pups than refused, took a f/t mouse, refused either for two weeks, I offered some hopper mice live and he snatched them right up, ate live the next week great. I'll continue to offer live for a few weeks, get him eating regularly and then try to go back to f/t.

The soaking recommendation may also help. The rationale on that is you need to replace the fluid loss b4 you replace the solids. Feeding a dehydrated animal is not the route to take to bring the bp up to regular feedings. Actually the soaking worked in my case just for the record. I know you said you've seen him drinking but we all know bp's really don't drink water that much. They do absorb fluids through the cloaca and actually the cloaca is like a mini sponge hence this is why your vet recommended the soaking. Hydrating him will go a long way. Next, ditch the carpet. It looks nice but you should switch to 100% cypress mulch to help him get back to feeding. There is a great article by The East Coast Reptile Breeders titled " The Enigmatic Ball Python Appetite" by Colin Weaver. He talks there about the benefits of 100% cypress mulch on non feeding ball pythons. Immediately go and check out his article! Good luck. Hope this helps! :gj: :gj:

I got a male of almost exactly the same size in a similar situation; he ate two times, making it seem like everything was alright, then just stopped eating for two months, no matter what I did. Though in my case the cause was most likely winter/breeding season, it was the same problem. One day I tried feeding him a live (adult) mouse, and he struck within 5 seconds of getting it near him, based on smell, since he hadn't even seen it yet. So yeah, I'd recommend a living mouse. I don't think it would be too big for your snake, as it was fine for mine as well, and he also weighed slightly above the 200 grams. He's been eating just fine (f/t again) ever since. Mice aren't nearly as dangerous as rats, but just make sure to watch over the snake and the mouse while they're together. If you're very concerned about feeding live, maybe you could try pre-killed.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Did she say live or f/t

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She had him taking both live and f/t.