Howard

Here's just some pictures of him. He isn't getting better. Doctor said that if it keeps getting worse he will wave any fee for euthanizing him.

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I'm so sorry he's not responding to all the good care and effort you've made. Euthanasia might be the kindest thing left that you can do for him at this point. It's awful, I know, but not the worst thing that can happen to him. :(

:( he's a tough little guy. I read through several threads but I must have missed where the vet said what happened. Did we ever get a diagnosis?

I'm so very sorry and I hope he gets better very soon! Thoughts and prayers for this little guy.

I'm glad to see you post. I was just thinking about this guy earlier today. I actually looked up your profile to see if I had missed any posts on him, and when I saw that you hadn't posted since the 6th, I feared that he may have succumbed.

Maybe I need to look up the old pics, but it doesn't look worse to me. I so want to aspirate, culture, and flush those bullae. Did the vet not aspirate them? Is he still on antibiotics? When you last posted, you indicated that he had gained 10 g with the tube feedings. Has he not continued to gain? Has he not taken food on his own?

I was wondering about the little guy myself. I agree with BoiseBallz, that the swollen places should be flushed, and I would put antibiotic cream on them. Is the little guy still gaining weight, is he still on antibiotics? Myself, I wouldn't give up yet. He's come so far, and youve done so much, I just wonder if aspirating those spots would make a huge difference. I'm pulling for you and the little dude.

Hope he makes a 360 degree turnaround and starts to get much better.

I hope he doesn't make a 360 that would put it right back to the condition it's in.... What it needs is 180.....

Sorry to hear he isn't doing any better :( I wouldn't lose hope just yet; if he's still responding positively to the tube-feedings and isn't lethargic/non-responsive, he may still do a turnaround. They're very tough little animals. It may not help, but like someone already said, you can always apply painkiller-free antibiotic ointment to those places; it won't hurt anything at any rate.

Thank you all for your kind thoughts. I really want to clean the spots also. The vet told me not to though because he's not sure what's underneath (I'm honestly frustrated that he can't do more to figure it out). He said that his life is riding on the 50/50 chance that there is new skin underneath it. If it's muscle under there, he said that Howard will not make it because it's such a large area. We all have our fingers crossed that it's new skin. But I just really don't think it is. Waiting for the blister to open is literally killing me inside because I know I'm going to have to see what's under there soon and I just don't think it's going to be what I want.

He has plateaued at 124g and hasn't gained any more weight from the tube feeding. He is still on antibiotics, but only has two treatments left of it.

But! I don't understand, honestly, why the vet wouldn't just take a syringe and suck some of it out to see what exactly it is. Surely a tiny spot of penetration couldn't hurt him that much because I've been giving him antibiotic injections. If someone could explain that to me, I would appreciate it so much.

Aspirating those places and seeing what's in there is what I would normally expect a vet to do... Is your vet a reptile specialist? I know they aren't always available, but a lot of times non-reptile specialists really don't know what they're doing in treating reptiles.

In my experience blisters don't normally slough off all at once; they usually will dry up with the 'shell' of the blister remaining, leaving time for new skin to form underneath.

I really wish that I could explain it, but I can't, because I don't necessarily agree with what your vet told you. If it were me, I would pop an Angiocath in there, aspirate, send for Gram stain and culture and sensitivities (aerobic, anaerobic, and fungal). I would then flush and aspirate to resolution with saline x 2, then I would flush and aspirate to resolution with either dilute F10sc or dilute Betadine followed by one final saline flush. I would then open at least a small window to allow continued drainage, and apply silver sulfadiazine. Or, after aspirating and sending samples, and depending on the appearance of the tissues and possibly the Gram stain results, unroof the bullae, lavage the underlying tissue with antiseptic, and apply silver sulfadiazine. I would try to more appropriately direct parental antibiotics to the Gram stain and eventually culture and sensitivities. If not already performed, I would dose with an intramuscular injection of vitamin B complex and continue aggressive tube feeding. That's just my opinion, but what I've outlined isn't necessarily cheap, and unfortunately financial considerations do play a role in decision making. Also, there's a fair chance that what I described would require anesthesia (depends on how cooperative the snake is without it), and many vets, justifiably, wouldn't feel comfortable trying. Sometimes we are simply hamstrung by the options that are available to us. You can't force your vet to do something they aren't comfortable with, and it's not reasonable to continue to throw tons of money at a problem.

Regardless of what happens, I applaud you for your caring and all that you've done for the little guy. It's obvious that you are doing everything that you can.

I really hope he recovers. I'm rooting for Howard.

I too was wondering how he was doing. Lots of us have been thinking of him. I don't think that it necessarily looks worse. The affected area does not look any bigger IMO. I have to agree with BoiseBallz on all fronts. I am still pulling for him and wouldn't give up yet. He's a handsome boy.

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Okay. Thanks guys. You're all too kind, really. It's great having somewhere to go where people can talk to you about the problems you're experiencing with your pet. Thank you so much for rooting for him. My vet isn't a reptile specialist, but he does treat reptiles also. There isn't a specialist anywhere near me until the zoo, which is about 95 miles from me (I live in the boondocks). Do you think I should take him there to get a specialists opinion??

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I'm so proud of the little trooper he is. He's such a tough guy.

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He is, at this very moment, taking a nice long drink. I need to get some more water in there, the heat lamp evaporates it all so fast! But that's okay, it helps the humidity stay nice and high :)

Poor little guy, must be so uncomfortable with all that fluid build up. That's really got to be addressed and not just sat on considering how far it's progressed from the photos a month ago.

Hm... Ideally a specialist opinion would be best, but it sounds like that might be kind of unrealistic for you. On the frog forum I'm on, there are several vets that will do phone/email consultations for people (usually free of charge) who can't make it to a herp specialist, and then people usually take that info and recommendations to their regular vet. I don't know if there's a similar option for snakes though... Anyone on here know of any services like that that would apply here?

If you can convince your vet to aspirate some fluid and do a culture that might be the way to go... Even a typical small animal vet will have the equipment and knowhow to do that. Just tell him you're worried that the antibiotic isn't targeting whatever the problem is.

However, I realize that this sort of thing can get pretty pricey, and considering the circumstances no one would judge you if you had to make the decision to euthanize (though I'm still holding out hope he can recover!)

Is it just me or does that large blister look like it's deflating a bit and starting to crinkle up near the front? It's good that he's still actively seeking out water at any rate.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Is it just me or does that large blister look like it's deflating a bit and starting to crinkle up near the front? It's good that he's still actively seeking out water at any rate.

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It does look like it from the picture. But really, the fluid doesn't fill the whole blister. So when he's at an angle, it all sinks to one end and the other looks empty. :/ I thought the same thing when I walked in and saw that.

This is a terrible dilemma and a tough situation all around. Please don't take this as a criticism of your care - I think you've done wonderfully for Howard. But IMO, if you can't get him to a herp specialist and get him appropriate diagnosis and treatment, I doubt he's going to make a spontaneous recovery. This is a very underweight little guy with very few reserves for fighting whatever process is taking over his body, and as Foxton pointed out, he's worsened since those pictures posted on 5/30. I mean no disrespect for your decisions. I just want to encourage you to consider his quality of life, and to remember that bps are pretty undemonstrative about their feelings. That said, I hope I'm eating those words in a week because he's bounced back. Glad you're keeping the updates coming and doing what you can for him.

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Originally Posted by Fidget

This is a terrible dilemma and a tough situation all around. Please don't take this as a criticism of your care - I think you've done wonderfully for Howard. But IMO, if you can't get him to a herp specialist and get him appropriate diagnosis and treatment, I doubt he's going to make a spontaneous recovery. This is a very underweight little guy with very few reserves for fighting whatever process is taking over his body, and as Foxton pointed out, he's worsened since those pictures posted on 5/30. I mean no disrespect for your decisions. I just want to encourage you to consider his quality of life, and to remember that bps are pretty undemonstrative about their feelings. That said, I hope I'm eating those words in a week because he's bounced back. Glad you're keeping the updates coming and doing what you can for him.

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No problem!!! No, I understand. Really. Thank you for being so honest and blunt about it like that. I will try my best to get him to the specialist at the zoo within the next day or hopefully by this weekend. Like I said, it's really far away, so gas is going to be expensive as all get out. I really wish I had all the money in the world for this little guy. He's the biggest trooper ball python that has ever lived... To me at least ha.

Again, thank you for your bluntness. I really appreciate it.

I wonder if cold laser treatment would be an option for Howard. It does wonders for mammals, heals injuries quite a bit faster, ect. I don't know if it has ever been tried on reptiles; but it's non-invasive, so I doubt it could make things worse, and could help, I would think. It's worth looking into.

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Originally Posted by kinley

...it helps the humidity stay nice and high :)

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You don't want the humidity high right now. You want it relatively dry and you want your ambient temps warmer than normal. The skin involvement that you can visibly see may be infected tissue, but it may also be sterile reaction to a systemic infection (usually antibody complex mediated), but even if it is not itself infected, it is prone to getting infected. Either way, moisture is your enemy right now. If your vet isn't willing to at least aspirate and culture some of the fluid and give you a prescription for silver sulfadiazine cream, and if you aren't able to get to the other vet, then PM me, and I can walk you through some things that you can do at home, cheaply, in lieu of euthanasia, if you want to try that.

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Originally Posted by BoiseBallz

then PM me, and I can walk you through some things that you can do at home, cheaply, in lieu of euthanasia, if you want to try that.

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I think they said the vet would be willing to do the euthanasia for free?

I think BoiseBallz has a good plan b. Plan A should be to call the herp specialist and explain Howards condition as well as your financial constraints. They are the professionals and could probably work out a payment plan for you that's doable. They probably have information about pet insurances that may be available to you. IMO, Its imperative to get the specialist involved in the decision making at this point. Just start with the phone call and see where it goes from there. :gj:

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

I think they said the vet would be willing to do the euthanasia for free?

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in lieu of euthanasia...i.e. instead of euthanasia

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Originally Posted by BoiseBallz

in lieu of euthanasia...i.e. instead of euthanasia

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I know what 'in lieu of' means...

I took that to mean methods of putting the animal down at home in lieu of vet-assisted euthanasia rather than alternate treatment. (Though I don't recommend anyone put an animal down themselves, it's not an uncommon suggestion on some of the exotics forums I'm on, so that's where the confusion came from).

Sorry. No, I meant that if she gets to the point that she feels that she is out of options other than euthanasia, but she still would be willing to try some intervention, that I could walk her through a couple of things that she could do herself at home cheaply.

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Originally Posted by BoiseBallz

Sorry. No, I meant that if she gets to the point that she feels that she is out of options other than euthanasia, but she still would be willing to try some intervention, that I could walk her through a couple of things that she could do herself at home cheaply.

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That sounds like a really good idea. I've seen snakes recover from truly horrific injuries and infections with nothing but basic medical care anyone could provide at home. It seems like this snake still has some fight left in him since he's still active to some degree. I always find it really sad when you have to give up on an animal that clearly still has a lot of will to live.

just looked up some of the previous threads on howard

i hope the little guy pulls through

the previous owner could use a good throat punch or three :mad:

I would do nothing to that blister. It may break at some point and it may prove to be fatal, but it is also possible that the antibiotics are working. If so, then as long as this blister remains intact, Howard has time for his badly abused body to repair itself. If the blister breaks and he has a large exposed region he will almost certainly die. This is probably why your vet has not been more aggressive with treatments. I certainly understand the people who suggested extremely aggressive treatment, including flushing and aspiration, but at this point, considering how weak Howard likely is, those interventions could easily result in the blister bursting and leaving poor Howard's insides exposed to the world. Of course this would be fatal. I suspect that your vet is correct in surmising that Howard's best hope is leaving the blister intact for as long as possible. At this point my only quibble with his treatment is the fact that a culture has not been done, so the antibiotics may or may not be correctly targeted at the infection.

Considering Howard's overall poor condition, any weight gain at all is a good sign. At this point, Howard's body is probably spending most of its energy on defeating the infection ravaging him and repairing the damage that has been done. His plateau could actually just mean that energy from food is being redirected towards repair of the injuries he has sustained due to the infection. I have been following the Howard posts since you first started posting, and I have been following his treatment, and hoping for the best, even while I expected the worst. I agree that Howard looks worse, but suspect that since the infection does not appear to be spreading anymore, he may actually have a chance. Many people might second guess the course of care he has received, but so far he is still alive and that is something that might not be true if he was treated differently. More aggressive treatment could easily have killed him faster.

I would not euthanize him at this point. He is clearly fighting to survive, and may still do just that. The worst may well be behind him. Of course if he does get worse, or if the blister breaks and his muscles are exposed, then yes you will have to Euthanize. Please understand that as dire as Howard's Condition is, your attempt to care for him and nurse him back to health is both brave and laudable. You have gone above and beyond, and no matter what happens, the last few months have been better for Howard than they would have been if you had not intervened. Of course, everyone in the hobby has lost animals, and every one of us knows how devastated you will feel if you and Howard loose this battle. Please know that even if Howard's health finally does fail, you and your Vet have done your best and so has Howard. That is all any one could ever ask.

If Howard makes it, every one of us will feel a portion of your joy. If he falters, then everyone of us will feel a portion of your grief. I know this is a paltry solace, but it is all I can offer at this point.

David

I once had a gerbil who refused to die, and I loved her deeply. When she finally went, she was nearly 6 years old and had a tumor sticking out of her ear. She would scratch and scratch at it, and within a few days it would grow back to more or less the shape it was before. At her age, there wasn't really anything a vet could do. Surprisingly, it wasn't the tumor that killed her. Her liver failed.

Update?

Any more news??

Kinley?? Howard update?

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Originally Posted by boafa

I hope he doesn't make a 360 that would put it right back to the condition it's in.... What it needs is 180.....

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Depends on how you want to take it. 360 turnaround for someone positive is a good thing. 180 is only half way there! I am hoping the little guy makes a complete 360! :gj:

Hoping :( :confusd:

Any update on Howard????

Bueller, Bueller Bueller........

C'mon Howard... You can do this! Kindly, you're a hero. xx

Healing prayers for Howard!!!


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I hope he hasn't past and she is scared to say it in fear of people telling her she should have done more. I tried to contact he unsuccessfully. Lets just hope Howard is doing well and she lost internet or something like that.

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Originally Posted by blk02ssmonte

I hope he hasn't past and she is scared to say it in fear of people telling her she should have done more. I tried to contact he unsuccessfully. Lets just hope Howard is doing well and she lost internet or something like that.

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Pretty much. I tried to message her too. Either so we can mourn with her or keep up the thoughts and prayers :weirdface