handling BP more= tamer pet?

Okay folks I want to start a discussion regarding the handling of ball pythons and whether or not more frequent handling over a long period of time would create a tame pet that doesn't get stressed out.

As we all know BP's can get stressed out while being handled and don't necessarily enjoy it. Ball pythons that seem tamer are more tolerant, but again this doesn't mean they enjoy it.

I am wondering if you get a ball python at a young age, and handle it on a regular basis (except for feeding/shedding/etc) if it will eventually enjoy being held and perhaps want to be held/enjoys your company.

Members that have had ball pythons for a number of years I would like to know your thoughts and opinions on this. I am a new ball python owner and have been blessed with a super tame yearling that i got a week ago, I am absolutely hooked on ball pythons now! :)

Thank you in advance for your responses!

We can go 'round and 'round with this (and we have before), but ultimately it comes down to whether or not they actually have the brain capacity to 1) become tame or tolerant, and 2) enjoy social/human companionship.

My own feelings on this are the best result I can aim for is an animal that doesn't look at me like a Godzilla monster trying to eat them. If they eventually associate me with something non-threatening, and turn-down the defensive behaviors, then that is plenty tame and tolerant in my book. I don't believe that they would ever truly enjoy being scooped out of their nice warm bed to dangle in my arms for an extended period of time. I also don't have any false hopes of having a similar relationship with my BPs that I would have with my dog/cat/etc that truly do enjoy and crave my company. They're simply worlds apart in that regard.

On a completely different note - WELCOME TO THE SITE AND WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION! :D

Best regards,
Eric

I think as Ball Pythons grow to be older, they mellow out since they realize people arent a threat to them. With that said, I don't believe they have the mental capacity to enjoy hanging out.

In regards to stressed Ball Pythons, I don't think that they're as fragile as people make them out to be.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

All individuals within a species can be so much different in personality from each other to boot, I don't know if we'll ever have an answer even when collecting thousands of anecdotes and observations. I'll just throw in mine and you can make of it what you will.

Both my girls are very tolerant of handling. I've tried to handle them both at least once a week, barring their initial introduction week where they were settling in and anytime they're in shed. They rarely display any defensive behaviors; Strudel, who started out as the more shy one, now appears to actively seek time out of her tub to explore and interact. I don't think she's balled up on me since the first couple of weeks of having her, and she's never hissed, struck, or displayed any other signs of stress. Serket will ball briefly if you wake her for interaction, but quickly comes out into explore mode in less than a minute. Both snakes continue to have a voracious appetite and feeding response, which is the best outcome you could hope for in a BP really.

Additionally, they both started out very headshy, but I've been getting them slowly desensitized to it. I personally feel this is in the best interest of both snakes and people. If I or a vet need to administer oral medication or inspect the head/mouth area for any reason, I want them to associate it with as little stress as possible.

BP are one of the species that does not require to be held on a regular basis to be handleable by anyone, however over handling can cause issues such as stress.

The key is to know your animal.

do not ever seem to look forward to being held. They often don't seem to mind it. On the other hand, if I get near my BCI's Cage, he is right there waiting to come out. He usually doesn't want to go back in. As soon as the lid is off, of his cage, he is crawling up my arm.

Ball pythons are very hide oriented, so if you want one to be comfortable being held, make sure the snake is covered with a hand towel or something similar. They seem to be most comfortable being held, when they can curl up under something with just their head hanging out. I usually drape a hand towel over my left arm, and let my BP Delphi crawl around under it. She also seems to enjoy sitting in the collar of my shirt, with just her head peaking out. She will curl up behind my neck and stay like that for many hours. BP's seem hard wired to want their body covered. Keep the body covered and you snake will be more comfortable being held.

David

Thank you for your prompt response! I didn't think about their mental capacity and whether or not they would be capable of such a relationship. All I know is I enjoy his company very much! They are such docile curious creatures!

One thing that has really helped me, most especially in handling my GSD puppy, but also in respect to other animals, is understanding that animals on the general whole do not perceive things the way to do - they have no ability to discern "higher" concepts like right/wrong. When Lucca runs off with a towel after I've told her "no", it's not because she's just being a defiant little brat - she's determined that towel = fun, mom chasing her = fun, and my "no" has not provided her with enough assurance of danger to override the fun.

I feel like reptiles probably do not even have the concept of fun - they probably don't do things for enjoyment (someone correct me if I'm wrong!), their modes of operation are more basic. Fun is a concept one step above safe/dangerous, and that's probably the level where snakes are - hides are safe, big things with threatening-looking grabbers hovering over them might be dangerous. So, in theory, providing a very standardized ritual we want to handle our snakes will give them cues that our presence is not dangerous, and they don't need to be threatened. Providing reassuring experiences while handling will probably also help build their confidence that handling = safe.

I don't expect Vincent to look forward to being picked up, but I have high hopes that with enough positive experiences in my hands, he will grow to be as confident hanging out over my shoulder as he is climbing the walls of his enclosure, because he will know that I'm not threatening him, and he's safe there.

I've had misunderstandings w/my BP, & he seems to forgive (more likely that he forgets completely but who knows?) One thing I'm trying (& I'm a new owner, so take that into consideration) is that before I go to handle him, I wash my hands & arms up to my elbows with th same soap, every time. I'm thinking eventually he will be conditioned to realize that this smell isn't a threat, just th moving scenery w/a heat signature that's coming to pick him up & hold him for a little bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aercadia

One thing that has really helped me, most especially in handling my GSD puppy, but also in respect to other animals, is understanding that animals on the general whole do not perceive things the way to do - they have no ability to discern "higher" concepts like right/wrong. When Lucca runs off with a towel after I've told her "no", it's not because she's just being a defiant little brat - she's determined that towel = fun, mom chasing her = fun, and my "no" has not provided her with enough assurance of danger to override the fun.

I feel like reptiles probably do not even have the concept of fun - they probably don't do things for enjoyment (someone correct me if I'm wrong!), their modes of operation are more basic. Fun is a concept one step above safe/dangerous, and that's probably the level where snakes are - hides are safe, big things with threatening-looking grabbers hovering over them might be dangerous. So, in theory, providing a very standardized ritual we want to handle our snakes will give them cues that our presence is not dangerous, and they don't need to be threatened. Providing reassuring experiences while handling will probably also help build their confidence that handling = safe.

I don't expect Vincent to look forward to being picked up, but I have high hopes that with enough positive experiences in my hands, he will grow to be as confident hanging out over my shoulder as he is climbing the walls of his enclosure, because he will know that I'm not threatening him, and he's safe there.

---

That is an excellent point, they are more simplistic in their thinking so they are associating me holding them with either safety or danger not fun or comfort. These are good things to keep in mind while handling Bentley, thanks! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieJ

I've had misunderstandings w/my BP, & he seems to forgive (more likely that he forgets completely but who knows?) One thing I'm trying (& I'm a new owner, so take that into consideration) is that before I go to handle him, I wash my hands & arms up to my elbows with th same soap, every time. I'm thinking eventually he will be conditioned to realize that this smell isn't a threat, just th moving scenery w/a heat signature that's coming to pick him up & hold him for a little bit.

---

I do that too. It's good habit to wash hands before handling anyway, so I use the same soap each time to be more familiar.

I play a few games with my snake: He's on the ground or sofa, and I squeeze one or both hands around him, Gently, with just enough pressure that he has to flex his muscles and push through to move forward. I never do it hard enough to completely prevent him from moving, and if he stops tensing up I just let him go. We do this 2 or 3 times until he makes it obvious he's had enough of the 'game'. I took a video one time. Not much to see really but his tongue is flicking and he seems pretty relaxed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFPbkgX8-Y


Another 'game' is to have him wrap around one arm and use a wet paper towel to wipe him down and clean him. I'm pretty sure he enjoys it because he will hold on and let me wash him from head to tail a few times, then I dry him off with towel. He can move away at any time but will sometimes just hold still and hang out in the towel for a while.

The main thing is to observe the snake and let it teach you what it is comfortable with. When he starts pulling away or makes it obvious he's had enough I'll return him to cage.

I don't think BPs really have the desire to be held. I think they have the capacity to become desensitized to handling and not react in a negative way to it, but I don't believe they have the capacity to really bond with humans or 'enjoy' handling.

I think my garters benefit from non-excessive handling and come as close to 'enjoying' it as any snake can. They have very fast metabolisms compared to most commonly kept snakes and thus are hardwired to have more seeking behavior (because they'd need to go out looking for food more often in the wild) and that desire to seek can be met by occasional handling once they've been desensitized to you and don't view you as a threat. Additionally, they're one of the few snake species that seems to have (admittedly kind of rudimentary) social behavior that doesn't directly revolve around mating, due to their tendency to share hibernaculums and dens in the wild.

That being said, I think all of that interaction is based on conditioning; they associate me with food and warmth, and will therefore seek me out. I don't think they have the capability to concretely think of someone/something that isn't in their immediate environment, and I cease to exist to them the minute I walk out of the room. My only reptile that seems to have a concept of my existence beyond simple conditioning is my turtle; I will often come in to see her standing on her hind legs watching the door. I don't see any reason for her to do that if she doesn't have a vague understanding that I exist outside that door and will eventually walk in and feed her.