I want to keep my savannah monitor alive.

Hello everyone,

I have wanted a savannah monitor for a long time. I did all of my research beforehand and honestly thought I would need to order a little guy online, but I found one in a petshop instead. I probably shouldn't have gotten him because he just didn't seem... healthy. I have a juvenile black and white tegu that is thriving with proper temps and a huge enclosure. I expected him to act a bit more like my tegu when he was a baby. But he didn't. He seemed tired all the time. To compound the problem, while I was at the pet store picking him out, there was another monitor that kept flipping over onto his back. It's like he just couldn't right himself. I thought that look suspicious... but I also really wanted a monitor. I chose to overlook my concerns because I was confident I could rehab the little guy even if he was sick (I didn't think it would be anything he couldn't recover from).

Anyway, long story short: my little one died. I had only had him for two weeks. His basking spot was right at 120 degrees (I know care sheet recommend 130 but the pet store kept insisting that's too hot for a baby). The cool side was 80 degrees. It's a custom enclosure with the same measurements as a 40 gallon breeder. 8 inches of substrate misted every other day. Fed crickets (as many as he would eat in ten minutes). None of it seemed to matter and he just progressively got worse and worse. So I called the pet store because I didn't think it was my fault. They exchanged him for another and this guy is much more lively and DOES seem healthy. But my confidence is shot. I feel so bad for my earlier monitor. I want to make sure it wasn't fault. That it wasn't a preventable death. More importantly, I want to make sure my little dude survives because I'm getting very attached to this one.

Please help me! Any advice, criticism, anything!

Thank you!

What kind of thermometer are you using to read the hotspot and other temps? (IR Temp gun, dial, digital)

Why do you have 8 inches of substrate?

Posting a picture of the cage would allow people to help you better with suggestions for it.

varanustalk.net

Small forum, but tons of great advice. If you post the above overthere put up some pictures of your enclosure etc.

The cage you have even for a baby is pretty tiny, most have had success putting them in their "forever" enclosure right off the batt, 8in of substrate is better than some have done in a 40 gallon tank, but again most suggest at least 2ft of substrate to ensure they can burrow, stay hydrated, etc. What are the specs on your tegu enclosure? I basically keep my Tegu the exact same way most house their Savs except I keep a higher humidity.

Thanks for the replies!

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Originally Posted by KMG

What kind of thermometer are you using to read the hotspot and other temps? (IR Temp gun, dial, digital)

Why do you have 8 inches of substrate?

Posting a picture of the cage would allow people to help you better with suggestions for it.

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I take surface temps with a temp gun but I also have a digital on both ends of the enclosure.

I have 8 inches because http://www.savannahmonitor.net/ insists that they are burrowing animals and like to dig.

I'll try to get a pic when I get home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

varanustalk.net

Small forum, but tons of great advice. If you post the above overthere put up some pictures of your enclosure etc.

The cage you have even for a baby is pretty tiny, most have had success putting them in their "forever" enclosure right off the batt, 8in of substrate is better than some have done in a 40 gallon tank, but again most suggest at least 2ft of substrate to ensure they can burrow, stay hydrated, etc. What are the specs on your tegu enclosure? I basically keep my Tegu the exact same way most house their Savs except I keep a higher humidity.

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My baby is very tiny. Perhaps only a little longer than my middle finger. I had read that they could be placed inside large enclosures but I was skeptical because I didn't want him to stress out inside such a large enclosure and, selfishly, I want to make sure he survives for a little while before I go through the process of building his adult home. I already have the plans (it would mimic my tegu enclosure). I just want to make sure he lasts past two weeks.

My tegu enclosure is 8 long x 4 deep x 3 height.

Would you still recommend 2ft at his size? Of course I would add more as he grew but I have the temps worked out perfectly (I believe so, anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong) and I hesitate to disturb that until I'm a bit more convinced he's healthy.

I've never had any issues with any of my pets before. I have beardies, uros, a tegu, snakes, and parrots. None of them have ever died on me.

I glad you are using a temp gun.


2 feet of substrate!?! I guess they really are diggers. Seems like that would almost have to be made custom. I bet changing it is no small task.

I cannot recommend varanustalk.com and savannahmonitor.net enough!!!

Your basking temps seem good enough for now. Between 120 and 150 is a good range(mine are at 140). The bulbs you should be using are called outdoor flood lights, and theyre way cheaper than anything at a pet store (most of the supplies for this guy, you will probably get at a hardware store) they are VERY important cuz the heat a large area without burning the lizard (like spotlights and heat emitters do) and they dont kill the humidity. you will find more info at varanustalk.

Humidity should be around 60% above ground and near 100%underground (it will help when you have a bigger enclosure with more substrate). If you are having trouble holding humidity, cover the lid with tin foil. You said something about how much dirt to use? As much as you can!!! In your aquarium, fill it more than half way with dirt. The minimum for an adult is 2 feet. They will use ALL of it. It might bump up the basking temps too.

For food, i really recomend worms, idk why but savs dont like crickets as much in my experience. Also, START TONG FEEDING, tongs are your best friends. Read the "taming" page on varanustalk about this.

Hahaha. My tegu requires a lot as well. It's a BIG pain in the butt to change it all out but thankfully a full overhaul can be delayed if I keep up with it as I go (like spot cleaning, for example). Honestly, I'd rather have to occasionally change out the dirt than incorporate the living soil with bugs and creepy-crawlies and everything. (I don't like the idea of bugs escaping into my house and like the idea even less when I start to imagine the possible parasites that may harm my tegu).

Kmg the subtrate for monitors will go against everything you have been taught about keeping reptiles. Go out to the woods, dig up a TON (quite literally) of dirt, run it through some screen to get the sticks out, and toss it in to the enclosure, no cleaning needed.

Its called bioactive substrate, its a self cleaning thing, all we keepers gotta do is every few months stir it up, no changing needed. You dont even need to clean their poop that often, the cleanup bugs in the dirt decompose the poop etc.

And yes, they dig like crazy. Moreso than tegus.

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Originally Posted by Daniel.michelle

I cannot recommend varanustalk.com and savannahmonitor.net enough!!!

Your basking temps seem good enough for now. Between 120 and 150 is a good range(mine are at 140). The bulbs you should be using are called outdoor flood lights, and theyre way cheaper than anything at a pet store (most of the supplies for this guy, you will probably get at a hardware store) they are VERY important cuz the heat a large area without burning the lizard (like spotlights and heat emitters do) and they dont kill the humidity. you will find more info at varanustalk.

Humidity should be around 60% above ground and near 100%underground (it will help when you have a bigger enclosure with more substrate). If you are having trouble holding humidity, cover the lid with tin foil. You said something about how much dirt to use? As much as you can!!! In your aquarium, fill it more than half way with dirt. The minimum for an adult is 2 feet. They will use ALL of it. It might bump up the basking temps too.

For food, i really recomend worms, idk why but savs dont like crickets as much in my experience. Also, START TONG FEEDING, tongs are your best friends. Read the "taming" page on varanustalk about this.

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Just to be certain: the basking temp of 120-150 is okay for a hatchling? He's very tiny. I fully expect an adult to require minimum of 130 but the pet store had told me they kept their babies at 90 degrees (do you think this might be why my first sav died?).

Can you explain the flood lights? I've tried looking for them at the hardware store but the one I bought actually focused the light enough to start burning the rock (left a black spot). That's not something I want to put my lizard under. I don't remember what exactly I bought, but I know I keep reading about a general "45 watt halogen flood lamp" bulb. Is there any specific brand that doesn't focus the light so dangerously?

I live in a very humid area of Texas. I don't even have to worry about that. Above the soil it's always at least 60% (usually closer to 70%) and I make sure to keep the burrowing area moist.

What kind of worms? Superworms? Silk worms? I was hoping to move on to dubia soon but are worms more nutritious? Can they digest it all okay?

The tong feeding is a terrific idea. Thank you for that! I'll start doing that immediately.

Bruh, acifexeq, ur makin more work for yourself. If your tank is sealed good, then there no chance of bugs escaping. You wont notice the bugs at all, trust me. (Also earthworms give a natural prey to the lizard and pill bugs are cute)

As for parasites, this bioactive substrate has been proven to be cleaner than dirt without a cleanup crew. Read up on the bioactive subtrate page on varanustalk.

Even if the bugs were to get out, none of them would be house hold pests and would likely die off after a day of being out of the enclosure. Changing out substrate in that big of a cage is a nighmare! My Tegu cage is 8x4x4 with 1500 pounds of dirt in it, currently the bugs added are earthworms, springtails, and I have some isopods on order.

The temps arent different in africa between baby and adult lol. Yeah, 120-150 is perfectly fine for a baby.

The lights should have a wide beam angle like the bulbs shown in this: http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/sho...s-amp-advanced
take a look at this:http://http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/showthread.php?245-Understanding-the-Thermal-Gradient/page2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I glad you are using a temp gun.


2 feet of substrate!?! I guess they really are diggers. Seems like that would almost have to be made custom. I bet changing it is no small task.

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They are big time diggers, so are Tegus, when dealing with a cage this size there is no changing the substrate, you basically create an ecosystem in the tank with insects that feed on the waste of the animal to help maintain a healthy bio load. Custom made cages all the way. I forgot where I read it, but when I was researching Tegus, it was stated that that to own a monster lizard you will become an electrician/carpenter/fabricator because there is nothing off the shelf that comes close to meeting their requirements. The dirt alone for my cage before I mixed in anything else was 1500 pounds.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...tes-Tips/page8

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for all of the help!

I'll reconsider the bioactive substrate as well. I don't mind pill bugs and worms. There had been mention of centipedes in wherever it was that I first heard about bioactive soil and I noped the heck right out of there.

I'll looking into flood lamps for my sav, too. As soon as he makes it to the one month mark, I'll build his adult cage. I know that people insist he won't get lost but how will I ever find him in something so large? It'll be 8 x 4, remember. O_o

Flood Bulbs in all wattages here: http://www.lowes.com/Light-Bulbs/Hal...%5B%5D=1z10i2e

Minimum of PAR30 for beam patterm, with PAR38 being the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acifexeq

You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for all of the help!

I'll reconsider the bioactive substrate as well. I don't mind pill bugs and worms. There had been mention of centipedes in wherever it was that I first heard about bioactive soil and I noped the heck right out of there.

I'll looking into flood lamps for my sav, too. As soon as he makes it to the one month mark, I'll build his adult cage. I know that people insist he won't get lost but how will I ever find him in something so large? It'll be 8 x 4, remember. O_o

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You will find him because a healthy Sav is an active animal that will be constantly digging, moving back and forth. They wont just go in a hole and sit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

You will find him because a healthy Sav is an active animal that will be constantly digging, moving back and forth. They wont just go in a hole and sit.

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Uh oh... My current little guy likes to stay in his hide. He rarely comes out (that I can see). He's a hatchling though, I would think this is natural behavior to avoid being eaten?

Tong feeding will help with that. Get him used to tong feeding, then rattle the tongs and he'll come right out.

Right now, hes just afraid of you etc. If you need to, setup a camera on a tripod and leave the room, get him on video. It is very natural for them to hide. Just gotta make sure he is heated well

Okay good. Thank you all so much for your help. Really. I'm sincerely grateful because I want the new one to live.

I don't think I'll be going back to that pet store again. The guy trying to insist that 90 degrees was enough for a basking spot has me convinced he doesn't know what he's talking about.