American Alligator husbandry questions.

Closest thread option i had, i went under misc but could only find field herping. Need help understanding requirements, meals, etc. Pretty much just need help with knowledge about what i need to know and physically have. Im considering purchasing.

The most important thing for you to have would be a permit, as they are listed as a threatened species by the US Fish & Wildlife Service, which makes them unlawful to posses in PA without one.

• Pennsylvania State Laws Governing Private Possession of Exotic Animals
• Species Profile for American alligator (Alligator mississippiensis)

Judging from your profile I'll assume you're a kid. My advice is don't purchase an alligator.

s it legal to buy/sell/own an alligator, cayman or crocodile in PA?

"The PA Fish and Boat Commission’s regulations do not regulate possession of non-native species of reptiles and amphibians. So long as these animals are not released into the wild, there are no state regulations regarding their ownership. Likewise, there is no state permit required to possess these animals. However, there may be local municipal ordinances, which regulate the ownership of “dangerous animals” and you should check with your local government before purchasing such an animal"... So legally i can own one?

Its going to be really difficult owning an alligator in Pennsylvania. If you lived in the warm southern states where you could make an outdoor pond maybe I could understand it. But unless you can make some kind of huge indoor heated pool with the right lighting for winter then its just unfair to the animal.
Think tegu or monitor of some kind, smaller and still super cool.

Do you have experience with lizards? If so what kinds? And how have you had experience with them?

If you are asking questions about the animals basic husbandy, you are not ready for it.

Before you even think of getting one, you MUST have:
an adult size enclosure built BEFORE getting a hatchling
a plan for feeding (not asking parents or assuming you have enough)
have a plan not just for the animal, but a plan for housing of yourself.
Be able to recite its care etc. Like the alphabet.

Thats just the tip of the iceburg too. Just keep researching until your eyes bleed and beyond.

Here's the section that I found relevant:

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58 PA Code §137.1. Importation, possession, sale and release of certain wildlife.
(a) Unless otherwise provided in this section or the act, it is unlawful for a person to import, possess, sell, offer for sale or release within this Commonwealth the following wild animals or wild birds or the eggs of the birds or a crossbreed or hybrid of the wild animals or wild birds, which are similar in appearance:

(8) An animal, bird or egg of a bird listed by the Commonwealth or the United States Department of the Interior as threatened, endangered or injurious.

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Have you ever seen a full size adult American Alligator? They are not small animals. They are also not exactly known to be friendly care free animals. Can you imagine having to get it looked at by a vet? I bet that would cost more than a Blue Eye Lucy itself.

If you are going to do it do it right and just get you a Saltwater Croc.

BTW, just because something is legal does not mean that there are not permits and permissions needed to do it. With that Im not saying it is or isn't legal for you to own one. I don't support the idea enough to google it for you.

ive had 2 crested geckos, own a turtle, and had 2 beardies. Both the geckos and beardies have died of old age. Mt turtle is still alive and well. I have a 3 bedroom trailer only two are full. The king size is open as i didnt need that much space. I seen HUGE plastic tubs that could easily fit a adult croc. Ive had experience with lizards however im new to snakes. I called the state rep office for further information on state regulations and permits needed... Im gettin the animal for the love of the animal, not for anything more. Its upsetting people let them go as adults as they should be fully prepped for an adult in the first place. Im more than ready to own one but need the permits. I want to have hands on physical knowledge of these animals as i find them interesting, the same reason people buy snakes. They find them interesting and have a loving, caring, burning passion for them. I have that same passion for crocs. I want one.

There's a little farm/zoo/rescue in the Stroudsburg area that keeps several alligators. A lot of their animals were collected from people who were woefully unprepared for exotic/dangerous animals. You should ask them how they care for their gators, and how optimal they believe their care is compared to a naturally warm climate or a facility with more resources at their disposal.

I can commiserate with wanting one - Clarissa Explains It All filled my young mind with dreams of keeping a baby gator in a kiddie pool in my room. Fortunately for all parties involved (especially for the alligator) those dreams were promptly shot down. I understand why, but that doesn't heal the heartbreak!

Trust me, you are better off working or volunteering with someone who has one. Crested geckos and beardies are TOTALLY different from alligators.

I keep monitors and work with large ones on a regular basis, and i would not even try getting an alligator. I recoment doing research on some smaller monitor lizards like savannahs, tree monitors or other "small" monitors. Start at varanustalk.com and savannahmonitor.net even if you're not that into those lizards specifically, there are experts on large lizards.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

ive had 2 crested geckos, own a turtle, and had 2 beardies. Both the geckos and beardies have died of old age. Mt turtle is still alive and well. I have a 3 bedroom trailer only two are full. The king size is open as i didnt need that much space. I seen HUGE plastic tubs that could easily fit a adult croc. Ive had experience with lizards however im new to snakes. I called the state rep office for further information on state regulations and permits needed... Im gettin the animal for the love of the animal, not for anything more. Its upsetting people let them go as adults as they should be fully prepped for an adult in the first place. Im more than ready to own one but need the permits. I want to have hands on physical knowledge of these animals as i find them interesting, the same reason people buy snakes. They find them interesting and have a loving, caring, burning passion for them. I have that same passion for crocs. I want one.

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So which is it, Alligator or Crocodile?

Many people keep Caiman Crocs but they are much smaller than an American Alligator. Are you confused of what you want?

A trailer bedroom is not going to be the proper environment to house a large alligator or crocodile. I have never seen a plastic tub large enough to hold an adult croc, not unless you count pre-molded swimming pools. I don't think you realize how large these animals truly are.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

... Im more than ready to own one but need the permits

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of course you're ready to keep a 10 ft 500 lb animal in the spare bedroom, after all, you've kept beardies.:rolleye2:

Ive been ready to do many things in my life but that does not mean that I could, should, or would.

I don't get how you go from having to save up to buy a snake to ready to build out an alligator or crocodile(whichever it is) enclosure.

Where can I buy a gator tub?

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

Im more than ready to own one but need the permits. I want to have hands on physical knowledge of these animals as i find them interesting, the same reason people buy snakes. They find them interesting and have a loving, caring, burning passion for them. I have that same passion for crocs. I want one.

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I can certainly appreciate that, but you're going to need more than a loving, caring, burning passion to get a permit:

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58 PA Code §147.81. Special Permits - Endangered or Threatened Species - Scope.
(a) The permit will only be issued if it can be established that the possession of the endangered species will enhance the species as a whole.

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I'm very curious now - it's "legal to own" one of these animals, IF you get the right permits, but they'll only issue permits to (it sounds like) wildlife preserve personnel or zoo workers... so, doesn't that effectively make it NOT legal to own, for the layperson?

Legal-ese is so tricky to wade through.

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Originally Posted by Aercadia

I'm very curious now - it's "legal to own" one of these animals, IF you get the right permits, but they'll only issue permits to (it sounds like) wildlife preserve personnel or zoo workers... so,doesn't that effectively make it NOT legal to own, for the layperson?

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For a "layperson" in PA, that's basically it, yeah. ;)

Just decided that american alligator might be a little much (for now) but seeing that i adore both crocodiles and alligators, ive made the decision of purchasing a smooth fronted caiman.

Shinisaurus crocodilurus
Dracaena guianensis
Tribolonotus gracilis

You get the crocodilian look without risk of serious mauling or death when you make a mistake.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

Need help understanding requirements, meals, etc. Pretty much just need help with knowledge about what i need to know and physically have.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

Im more than ready to own one but need the permits.

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Seems like quite the contradiction here. You've clearly displayed that you have absolutely no knowledge of the basic husbandry requirements of the animals in question, not to mention safe handling techniques for apex predator crocodilians. A caiman may be a smaller animal but it is nothing to jump into sight unseen just because you like them. Any crocodilian is going to be financially very demanding to keep in the colder states.

If you're truly serious about keeping crocodilians, Look into Shawn Heflick's Crocodile University program that he does. Spend the roughly $1000 on the course and learn the proper husbandry, handling, and other fundamental aspects of keeping crododilians. Learn from the people who are truly qualified. I guarantee that will give you a much better insight on whether or not crocodilians are something you want to get into. As well as I'm sure it'll make any permitting process easier, having that hands on time with dedicated crocodilian keepers.

I have a in ground concrete pond and wanted to put a caiman in it. Im sure the neighbors would have loved that and the wife was already against it. In the end I now have a very nice Koi pond with lily pads and a few other plants. I still think it would be interested to own a caiman. Maybe I can find one of these croc tubs.

http://www.waterfordgardens.com/Pref...ir-sc-603.html. Those are the tubs...

Also thanks for the name and information. Ill try to contact him and it would make it much easier to get a permit. Thank you all, i'm sure with all of this information i will be able to take outstanding care of my crocodile. :D:D:D

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

http://www.waterfordgardens.com/Pref...ir-sc-603.html. Those are the tubs...

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The largest "tub", which is actually a fiberglass pond, is only 7.5 ft wide and 16 inches deep with a price tag of $1440. That would not hold a caiman comfortably offering both dry and wet conditions.

ASL,A,O5,G10,G10 half, G14, G14 half, and Lake koi but is extraordinarily more expensive but is 19.5 feet long. The female i am intersted in only gets 5.2... Those tubs are more than enough. The tub would only be used as water space.

I am dedicated to the idea. Just learning about them is 750$-1000$ so that much for a tub isn't all that much. The animal is only roughly 300. The money to feed through the years will be extraordinarily more than the pond/tub. I think of it this way. I will do what i need to properly care,feed, and provide for the animal of my interest. If i pay for the crocodile university and decide i'm not interested in them enough to commit to purchasing. I will still have a complete and total understanding for the crocodile and useful knowledge of the animal from a general perspective..

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

Those tubs are more than enough. The tub would only be used as water space.

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Cause that's what crocodilians do in water, just chill in their one little space.

The pond is literally four times the size of the animal.

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Originally Posted by skatefastdieyoung

ASL,A,O5,G10,G10 half, G14, G14 half, and Lake koi but is extraordinarily more expensive but is 19.5 feet long. The female i am intersted in only gets 5.2... Those tubs are more than enough. The tub would only be used as water space.

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I think you need to start a list of everything you would need to actually do this. It seems like it could easily take over $6K by the time you buy a pond, pumps, filters, heaters, building materials, etc. I would guess that just for a proper build for a secure enclosure with pond. It may be cheaper to move to Florida.

I would also start checking out what this is going to do to your trailer. Having a pond in the room that is going to need heat Im sure will make a very sauna like climate. I can not imagine doing this would be good for the room.

One other thing I would not want to risk is having a seam in a two piece pond inside my house. I don't see you getting a proper sized pond inside the trailers room without going with the two piece models. Then there is the issue of the weight on the floor.

There are a ton of things to think about, plan, and research with this. I don't believe you have scratched the surface.

It should also be noted that American Alligators are seen as the puppy dog of the Croc world. Although smaller, caiman are said to typically be more feisty. And when it comes to the larger species like Nile crocs and Saltwater crocs, we are on the lunch menu. That's not coming from sensationalized news media, but from crocodilian experts.

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Originally Posted by KMG

I have a in ground concrete pond and wanted to put a caiman in it. Im sure the neighbors would have loved that and the wife was already against it. In the end I now have a very nice Koi pond with lily pads and a few other plants. I still think it would be interested to own a caiman. Maybe I can find one of these croc tubs.

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LOOOL! You ended up with a KOI POND WITH LILLIES!!!
I'm sorry, just found that funny. No offense.

I can totally understand wanting something, but not being able to quite meet the space / care requirements. Realistically, your current housing situation would probably not work for supporting the sheer weight and humidity from an indoor pond that large.. Even with an air exchanger for the humidity, I can't even begin to know what you'd have to do structurally support that much water (this would even be an issue with a house with a slab foundation).. Water weighs about 10lbs per gallon, so a 500 gl pond would be about 5000 lbs.

With that in mind, I've got a couple suggestions that might solve the giant housing issue and the permit issue.

What about a crocodile skink? They have the appearance of a crocodillian but not the size or massive enclosure requirements.

Also, consider Chinese and Australian water dragons. They have a semi-aquatic lifestyle and are active, but stay a much more manageable size, while still needing a large enclosure.

All three of these offer you aspects of the caimans / alligators either behaviorally or appearance-wise, but in a much smaller and more manageable package. With either of the water dragons, you'd still want to provide a large nice looking enclosure with a large water element, but it would be a lot less in volume than what is needed for a caiman.

I also agree with the suggestion of finding a herp rescue or similar organization that works with large lizards and crocs... You could get hands on experience and enjoy them without having to foot the bill for permits, food, or setup. Plus, volunteering with them would basically be like getting a care course for free and you'd find out just what you'd be getting into and if it is what you think it would be or what you really want.

Good luck!

Wait is this thread a joke? I thought we were all just playing along with this kid, but I am starting to think he is serious about getting an alligator in a trailer park. Sounds like the headline of a major news story.

That thing will shred his appendages, and anyone else's who is dumb enough to be around him.

To the OP. DO NOT GET AN ALIGATOR. Even a dwarf caiman is going to be much more than you can handle in a trailer.

Having beardies doesn't prepare you at all for this responsibility. If you want something bigger get a savannah monitor, and maybe work your way up to a water monitor. Even salvators are not appropriate for the majority of herpers.

This cannot be real can it?

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Originally Posted by D1C

This cannot be real can it?

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No way right?

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

No way right?

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He's has to be trolling....he's gotta be

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