Sales with breeding clauses attached?

I do wonder if the BP breeders sell individuals with breeding clauses in a sales agreement. The clause could be a reduced price if future breeding will be free or reduced stud fees. Do breeders allow their males to breed with other collections for a stud fee? Does anybody lease a female for breeding?

This may be for the more elite breeders but have sales ever had a breeding restriction on them? It may not be a complete ban but perhaps somebody buys an exceptional female and the original owner/seller may have a clause that says you may only breed to a certain male/morph for a pre-determined number of clutches.

I have never seen anyone limit the number or type of breedings you can do with a BP after you purchase it.

However, I did have someone interested in using one of my males as a stud, once. Ended up I did not have what he wanted after all. I have no idea if that is normal or not.

This sounds weird to me. And beside that it would be like, completely non enforceable.

That would be like buying ice cream and the store saying you can't put toppings on it. How will they know? That would kill buying from that particular person for me.

Sent from my snake room

Doesn't seem likely at all considering a morph's market value is solely determined by it's breeding capability...

Some clauses can be hard to enforce, some may require a small claims court to resolve. I do know that for dogs and horses, this is common. I am fairly sure that well connected breeders will have a hand shake deal in place for this.... makes sense right?

Due to the honest infancy of morph breeding, this could help or bankrupt. Keep the genetics to yourself and hope nobody else managed to breed them. Or, you can manage the genetics of the snakes you may sell with a contract and have the greatest chance of having a very diverse genetic pool to maintain the top sellers and breed for the next bestest.

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Originally Posted by devildog_dk

Doesn't seem likely at all considering a morph's market value is solely determined by it's breeding capability...

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That is a big part of my wondering. A great new morph may be sold to someone who just loves the looks and potential for their own collection. Perhaps someone can buy a female and the seller has to have access and all/some hatchlings for the first 2-3 breedings. After that, the buyer can breed to whatever/whenever.

Some agreements can say that only a certain morph approved by the seller can be bred to that snake. Some agreements can say that the seller has first pick of the clutch(es).

Hi,

The only time I have seen something similar was when the morph or individual snake had a known problem that made breeding it a risk.

People do enter into breeding loans from time to time - but it requires serious though regarding quarantine, who gets what, who is responsible for any injuries/ illness etc.

Well yeah, but I would think for dogs and such it would be easier to control slightly... IDK. If you want to sell them to not be bred they just fix them. Can't really do that with snakes. Or if you can, I don't want to know, because I would have to kill people :D

I don't know but it sounds like a total pain in the butt.

Not uncommon for breeders to loan snakes to each other for shared breeding programs etc. I know several guys who do it and I may be doing something similar in the fall breeding season. As for buying snakes and promising not to breed I'm with the others, impossible to enforce. 15 years ago I bought a Maine Coon cat from a breeder with an agreement to never breed him. The way it was enforced was I had to have him neutered and provide the breeder the paperwork proving it was done before she would send me his pedigree papers in case I ever wanted to register him.

Yeah its not uncommon to loan. I know some local breeders who do it, and I've been asked. But I don't trust lending out my snakes, both due to theft and disease.

I've also seen snakes sold as pet only, not for breeding, if that counts.

With dogs and horses it's easier to use "stud" animals. As the owner of the male, my animal never has to leave my sight. Either I bring the animal to the female and observe the mating, or I freeze and send sperm. Even if I wanted all of the mammals I produced to not be bred, that's a valid concern from a dog or horse breeder and can be enforced by contract (the breeder's of my cousins dog were strict about this, because she was the only breeder of that particular breed in that metroplex and the odds of inbreeding if you wanted to get into it were high). In the case of a snake, where locks can occur for up to a day or two at a time and when breeding is basically the only reason you would buy an expensive morph, that just isn't possible or practical. Because of these complications, I can't imagine this kind of thing becoming common. If you need the male for stud purposes, just don't sell it. If you don't want a new morph your sitting on to get out too fast, just don't sell it. Assume that once you sell an animal you will never see it again and plan your sales accordingly.

I haven't seen restrictions aside from "this snake shouldn't be bred because... (kink, severe wobble, fertility issues, history of egg binding, etc.)." While I have seen people enter breeding partnerships, it's risky (not much of a way to enforce terms) and I would imagine the most successful ones are between people who have trust in each other, rather than someone offering a stud or brood lady snake to the public. It's just too risky to lend a snake out to another collection and bring it back into yours, plus all the extra quarantine is a hassle. With dogs or horses you can ship seven and artificially imseminate; having the animals physically mate is optional.

I did have someone once ask me to breed his snakes for him, but I declined for a couple of reasons, some of which are listed above.

What some do are breeder loans in the majority of cases it's a lot more trouble than it is worth.

If you chose to do that have everything on paper.

There is nothing that prevents someone from breeding their animal, no matter how it was sold. There is no spay/neuter procedure for snakes (at least that I'm aware of - and certainly not as a routine procedure).

When it comes to dogs and cats for example, with purebreds, a breeder will sell their puppies on limited registration, which means that no puppies that are produced by those can be registered with the AKC (in regards to dogs). It is a check and balance for the breeder if the puppy buyer decides that they want their dog to have a litter or doesn't neuter or spay per the contract.

We recently acquired a golden retriever, who is not on limited registration, and we do not plan to neuter him. We also don't plan to ever breed him. The decision not to neuter is for health reasons only (UC Davis did a study that suggests that intact goldens (who are have high incidences of cancer) are far less likely to develop certain cancers - or at least delay onset significantly by keeping them intact, or delaying neuter/spay until their growth plates close at 18-24 months). But I say that to say that there is no ball python registration, where someone may agree to never breed, but then changes their mind, that governs said agreement.