Unbelievable-Designer Ball Pythons

I was planning on purchasing a pastel breeder female from Rob at Designer Ball Pythons. I had made an offer, asked a few questions, and all of which he answered and accepted. I had told him I wouldn't be able to pay until later that day, and he said the deal would only be on if I bought that day. Which was kinda pushy to start. But I asked if he had any FireBees or spiders anyway, and he didn't respond. In that time I had found a Spider I needed more than the pastel, and I decided to let him know instead of being a flake and just not responding anymore. This is the exact response I got:

"Always appreciate the waste of time....I get very few people who make offers and then can't follow through."

I was totally floored. I had let him know, I wasn't being a flake, I did make an inquiry, not a transaction, and frankly, I am a potential buyer who was offering my business. Had it not been for that, I would maybe understand the out of the blue response. But even as a business owner...that is not professional in my book. I said as much (very nicely might I add) and apologized again, and this is what I got back:

"I guess you didn't read my ad correctly or in its entirety. I have absolutely no patience for time wasters, excuse givers, pics collectors and so on.
I'm not having a bad day...I expect adults who offer a price (a low one at that) to actually have the funds to pay for it when I accept. Apparently that wasn't the case either. Now, if you think the problem lies on my end, you might need to take a closer look at the scenario with your eyes open.
Buyers like you I definitely do not need nor want."

It was absolutely unbelievable. He literally managed to call me a child, a waste of time, incompetent with funds, and not thorough.
As a customer I am very disappointed.
As a person I am appalled.
I don't really know what to make of this. I honestly thought that as business owner you would do whatever it is in your power to understand and help a customer. A customer that you rely on your livelihood to continue your business. But perhaps I am wrong?

About 90% of the above paragraph was in the email I sent back to that. I concluded with yet ANOTHER apology, and how I wasn't trying to be rude.

I suppose if you don't mind being pushed around, reprimanded, accused, called a child, a waste of time, incompetent with funds ect. then by all means do business with this guy. But let me tell you from personal experience, it sucks.

WOW is about all I can say..

Welcome to the real world brother. You have a lot of people out here perpetrating frauds, selling sick animals, unable to effectively respect and be kind ,to not only a potential customer ,but other people in general. Chalk it up as his loss and move on. You can't control what other people say but you have every right to take your business elsewhere. Don't sweat the small stuff. Peace.

Thanks for the heads up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EMSPrincess

I had made an offer, asked a few questions, and all of which he answered and accepted. I had told him I wouldn't be able to pay until later that day, and he said the deal would only be on if I bought that day. Which was kinda pushy to start. But I asked if he had any FireBees or spiders anyway, and he didn't respond. In that time I had found a Spider I needed more than the pastel, and I decided to let him know instead of being a flake and just not responding anymore. This is the exact response I got:

"Always appreciate the waste of time....I get very few people who make offers and then can't follow through."

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While I never would have responded the way he did, let me try to offer an alternative point of view as a seller. You said you asked questions and made an offer. He answered your questions and accepted the offer. While not legally binding, I consider this the internet equivalent of a handshake and would personally never back out after offering my hand. The time limit on the deal part isn't pushy in my opinion so much as prudent business practice. If sellers put an extended hold on animals every time an "offer" was made they'd miss out on a lot of sales due to animals being in limbo for folks who eventually ghost out.

It was nice of you to let him know you were backing out of the deal. I personally would have thanked you for informing me and moved on from there. I think it's a bit hypocritical to apologize several times to a person then write a bad review, especially as you are still apologizing to the subject of said review in your last correspondence. People generally don't apologize unless they feel they have wronged someone in some way. I think it's a good idea for you to avoid this seller as you obviously have different ideals when it comes to commerce. I personally would not avoid them based solely on the information given here. Then again, a lot of it has to do with wording, maybe I'd see your point of view better after reading the e-mails if you care to post them in their entirety.

As someone is business, and a low margin business at that, there are two kinds of customers who are rude whether they intend to be or not.

1. The customer who thinks he or she is at Wal-Mart. This customer feels that he or she is entitled to the lowest price on a designer or hand made, or hand bread product produced to the highest standard, because some one else has a cheap poor quality knock-off someplace else. The initial low ball offer is rude whether the customer intends it to be or not. Mr. or Mrs. Walmart doesn't understand that it costs money to make something. Especially something made in the US. There are fixed expenses, the building, utilities, property taxes, food, employees etc. Raising snakes is not cheap, and a lot of work. By the time this is over, the man you are dealing with probably makes very little per hour. It would be like going to Donna Versace and offering to by a gown for 200.00 because you saw the same thing at Walmart, for $175.00.

2. Any one who makes an offer and does not follow through. It used to be given in this country that a persons word was their bond. I don't know where honesty went, but when you spend twenty minutes out of your sixty hour work week with someone, it stings a bit when you make an agreement and then they back out. I'll bet that Rob works like a slave to keep his business running. He has a lot to do and every minute he takes to help someone who ultimately backs out costs him part of his life, and his life work.

David

Don't worry about it - people like this aren't worth losing sleep over. Also don't read too much into it. Sounds like he has a "form letter" response for people that tick him off. As posted above, he may be busy, etc. but he just spent a good part of his busy day being an ahole when he could be productively promoting his product. The world and this generation is so screwed up (I blame social media for a lot of the downturn in society as people are so busy following and being followed that they don't know how to function one-on-one). I also get the same reaction all the time on Kijiji - you ask about something (how big is it? do you have... for it, or whatever) and the person will come back with 'when will you be here to get it, I'll be home at "whatever' time. Sometimes people jump to conclusions because you showed any sign of interest (or thought that they could subconsciously force you into purchasing).

If I made an offer on a snake and it was accepted I would have bought the snake and not ran off after the next new one I found. That wasn't very nice on your end, and while it doesn't excuse the prolonged shame fest on his part, you should never have offered for the snake if you weren't actually going to buy it.

Case in point - I made an offer on my dh albino pied male which the buyer agreed upon and in the process of looking for a female for him came across a deal with a proven het male and a female poss het (together which another seller). I could get both of for cheaper than the dh. I didn't necessarily need the dh with the purchase of the other two but I had agreed to get him. What did I do? I stood by my word, spent the extra money and came home with 3 snakes.

Actions speak louder than words. As a seller I don't expect anything until money is in my account or hand. Only exception to that is when I do local business and you set up a time and place to meet, you better show up at least. Besides that, verbal promises mean nothing, no I will not hold the animal for you, nor will I get mad if you don't buy, it is what it is. There will always be time loss on nonbuyers it comes with the hobby.

As buyer I expect the same, if I don't send you money you owe me nothing, but if you want my money I expect some sort of professionalism, again I won't get mad if you're mean, but it is your loss in the end.

I don't agree at all with how he responded; however, when someone makes an offer I would expect them to follow through if the offer was accepted. To put things in perspective I probably "sell" each snake three times when dealing with new customers. When selling a couple hundred babies a year you can see how this can become frustrating and time consuming. I'm pretty lucky though as I have some great repeat customers who keep things going.

Everyone here pretty much hit it right.
Im sure this post wouldnt have been placed if no further communication had happened.
Wasnt cool on either side even though you were doing what you thought was the right thing.
For me once I make or accept an offer the deal is set in stone.
My word is all I have in this life. I have several normal males that "have been sold" a couple times in the last month. One person made a deal, didnt hear from him when he said he would contact me and then tried to contact me two weeks later. Sorry wont sell to him is the only response he got from me. I shelfed a whole day over less than $20 when there was a bunch of other stuff I could have been getting done.
Just remember to look at it from all sides when you start to make a deal because now its not just about you anymore.

My asking price was 125.00 for a beautiful 2200g pastel breeder. Shipping was 72.00 from NY completely across the country (to Oregon I believe). Jessi lowballed and wanted the animal for 175.00 shipped. My response was "if you are paying today, I can do that." I gave my PayPal adress. She replied her PayPal doesn't work and needed to wait until her boyfriend got home in order to make the purchase. At this point I considered her sold pending payment. Her next email to me said she couldn't buy the two. I asked which two as our deal was for one pastel. She replied that she purchased from someone else and that she couldn't afford both.
I will gladly attach the entire conversation from the initial inquiry to the final reply in its entirety. I have the screen shots saved and just need to upload them. The entire picture should paint a different picture.

If its in your defense then by all mean shed some light.

I totally understand what everyone is saying - and I agree. I tried to summarize the "deal" part and that was my fault; I'll post the whole conversation like someone asked. The "deal" included me making an offer, him saying he'd take it if I paid today, and then I told him it would have to be later that day because I'd have to use my boyfriends paypal because mine doesn't work. I didn't get a response for a couple hours and that's when I told him I wasn't going to be able to pay. I made ">>>>>" to indicate his responses. He's located on the east coast, but the times I listed are west coast times. I deleted personal info or left a underline. I bolded and italicized to highlight points. But this is the exact conversation as what is in both of our inboxes. Hope this clears some things up:

May 25, 11:11 pm: Interested in your breeder pastel female you posted on Fauna. 2185 grams I think. Listed at $125. Wanted to see if she was still available and whether I could get a picture or not. What would the shipping quote be for the zip _____?
No mites, correct?
How are her feeding habits?
Has she ever struck/bit and/or been sassy?


Thanks

>>>>>May 26, 3:02 am: Here she is. She is a problem free, easy handling adult. She eats a small - medium rat every 10-14 days.
Shipping is 72.00 from _____
[Pic attached]
Thanks
Rob

May 26, 8:17 am: She looks great, but that shipping cost though...would you take $175 shipped?


Thanks

>>>>>May 26, 9:18 am: If you are paying today, then yes, I will do that.
Rob

May 26, 10:56 am: We should be able to pay today, I have wait for my boyfriend to get home however, my paypal doesn't work and his does.
Do you happen to have any juvenile female FireBee's or breeder size female Spiders?

May 26, 2:09 am: Hey Rob, I'm really sorry but a transaction for another snake just went through and I won't be able to pay for both. Very sorry, again.

>>>>May 26, 2:39 pm: Both of what? You were purchasing one adult pastel female.

May 26, 2:48 pm: Another snake from another breeder.

>>>>May 26, 2:58 pm: Always appreciate the waste of time....I get very few people who make offers and then can't follow through.

May 26, 4:08 pm: I apologized and let you know instead of choosing not to respond. I am very surprised by your reaction as I assumed you are a professional breeder with a reputable standing in the herp community. However, I'm beginning to wonder if that is the case.
I understand if you are having a rough day, perhaps. I was planning on getting my paycheck on the 5th and contacting you again to see if she was still available. I did not want to inconvenience you and have you put her on hold for me in the event someone else wanted her. That is most certainly not the case anymore, so there is no need.


Thanks

>>>>May 26, 4:15 pm: I guess you didn't read my ad correctly or in its entirety. I have absolutely no patience for time wasters, excuse givers, pics collectors and so on.
I'm not having a bad day...I expect adults who offer a price (a low one at that) to actually have the funds to pay for it when I accept. Apparently that wasn't the case either. Now, if you think the problem lies on my end, you might need to take a closer look at the scenario with your eyes open.
Buyers like you I definitely do not need nor want.

May 26, 6:34 pm: I am truly floored. You have managed to call me a child, a waste of time, incompetent with funds, and not thorough.
As a customer I am very disappointed.
As a person I am appalled.
I don't really know what to make of this. I honestly thought that as business owner you would do whatever it is in your power to understand and help a customer. A customer that you rely on your livelihood to continue your business.
I'm not trying to be rude. I am honestly just blown away by your treatment.
I'm afraid I don't have any more time to spend on this, like I said, I am very sorry. Have a good night.

>>>>>May 27, 2:50 am: I never called you a child or incompetent. Those are words you used on yourself. A waste of time...absolutely.
Customers actually make purchases...you are only a potential buyer who flaked after making an offer and reneging on it after the fact. You obviously don't see anything wrong and the ignorance in doing that though. However disappointed you may feel, try putting the shoe on the other foot for a change. You should make offers to people all day long, promise to pay, and then renege on it saying you purchased elsewhere and see how long it takes to get blacklisted from the hobby.
As for wasting your time, you did pretty well wasting mine. Good luck with your ignorance.

I honestly wasn't trying to upset anyone, and tried to be diplomatic as possible. At the end of the day it's about the ball pythons we all love and I didn't want to tarnish a relationship with someone whom I share a common interest with. I decided to post this review because even after I tried to mend things, he continued to make accusations and act unprofessionally. As a customer, if this were to have happened to someone else, I would have wanted to know instead of going in blind with no idea who I was dealing with. A review has the sole purpose of allowing a customer to share their experience, good or bad, and this was mine.
Trust me, I understand I could have perhaps thrown a smiley face in there or something to diffuse the situation. I understand that now. But I was so turned around by how I was being treated, it didn't cross my mind at the time.
For all you sellers out there, thank you for doing what you do. Without you, we would have no opportunities to expand the collections and love to new little critters. I have the utmost respect for all of you. I've never given a bad review, especially to someone of the BP community, but this...this was something else.

Hope this cleared some things up.

Both of you still strung it along instead of just letting it go. :gj:

3 hours and you had already bought another snake... What happened to your paypal not working?
Sorry, I am still of the opinion if you committed to purchase a snake you should have done so except in extenuating circumstances.

The emails fully seen do not paint his comments in nearly so bad a light as your summary did. Again, he should not have gotten angry, and its not good business to speak that way to a potential customer but frankly this puts you in just as bad a light as it does him. Two wrongs don't make a right on either side.

If I had a snake for sale, based on this post, I would not be inclined to do business with you.

It's just as important to be a professional buyer as it is to be a professional seller (especially in a hobby based largely on one's reputation). :2cent:

You should not have gone looking for, and bought, another snake after telling him you were going to buy his. He should not have reacted the way he did. Both of you should have just dropped it immediately instead of acting like children and stringing eachother along. Just move on.

I agree that it is important to be both a professional seller and buyer. However, I think the burden of professionalism falls mainly on the seller, especially since there are so many buyers that are new to the hobby and ignorant about what it costs to be a breeder. Calling someone a waste of time is pretty brutal. I would feel uncomfortable doing business with someone who would personally attack me if they felt like it was justified.

On the other hand, I will seek out anyone who is especially gracious to me and purchase from them on purpose. We are all new, vulnerable, and ignorant at some point, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllieKin

I agree that it is important to be both a professional seller and buyer. However, I think the burden of professionalism falls mainly on the seller, especially since there are so many buyers that are new to the hobby and ignorant about what it costs to be a breeder. Calling someone a waste of time is pretty brutal. I would feel uncomfortable doing business with someone who would personally attack me if they felt like it was justified.

On the other hand, I will seek out anyone who is especially gracious to me and purchase from them on purpose. We are all new, vulnerable, and ignorant at some point, right?

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Rob has this on his ad. I promise not to waste your time, so please no tire kickers, window shoppers, or pic collectors. I will be more than happy to supply current pics for serious buyers. Thanks. So if you do exactly what he asked you not to do what do you expect?

Being new does not mean you should waste time by negotiating and backing out. Would you go to a car lot negotiate a price and then say I don't have money, I found a different car, my way of payment doesn't work so I need someone else to buy, etc....... The answer is no. It doesn't have to do with being new it has to do with respect for other peoples time. Like Dave said earlier I also sell each snake multiple times a year. I got so sick of it I wholesale the majority of my babies now. I just don't have time to waste hours everyday on people buying that don't actually buy.

Having said all this Rob was a little more blunt then I would be. However I do feel his pain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EMSPrincess

I totally understand what everyone is saying - and I agree. I tried to summarize the "deal" part and that was my fault; I'll post the whole conversation like someone asked. The "deal" included me making an offer, him saying he'd take it if I paid today, and then I told him it would have to be later that day because I'd have to use my boyfriends paypal because mine doesn't work. I didn't get a response for a couple hours and that's when I told him I wasn't going to be able to pay. I made ">>>>>" to indicate his responses. He's located on the east coast, but the times I listed are west coast times. I deleted personal info or left a underline. I bolded and italicized to highlight points. But this is the exact conversation as what is in both of our inboxes. Hope this clears some things up:

May 25, 11:11 pm: Interested in your breeder pastel female you posted on Fauna. 2185 grams I think. Listed at $125. Wanted to see if she was still available and whether I could get a picture or not. What would the shipping quote be for the zip _____?
No mites, correct?
How are her feeding habits?
Has she ever struck/bit and/or been sassy?


Thanks

>>>>>May 26, 3:02 am: Here she is. She is a problem free, easy handling adult. She eats a small - medium rat every 10-14 days.
Shipping is 72.00 from _____
[Pic attached]
Thanks
Rob

May 26, 8:17 am: She looks great, but that shipping cost though...would you take $175 shipped?


Thanks

>>>>>May 26, 9:18 am: If you are paying today, then yes, I will do that.
Rob

May 26, 10:56 am: We should be able to pay today, I have wait for my boyfriend to get home however, my paypal doesn't work and his does.
Do you happen to have any juvenile female FireBee's or breeder size female Spiders?

May 26, 2:09 am: Hey Rob, I'm really sorry but a transaction for another snake just went through and I won't be able to pay for both. Very sorry, again.

>>>>May 26, 2:39 pm: Both of what? You were purchasing one adult pastel female.

May 26, 2:48 pm: Another snake from another breeder.

>>>>May 26, 2:58 pm: Always appreciate the waste of time....I get very few people who make offers and then can't follow through.

May 26, 4:08 pm: I apologized and let you know instead of choosing not to respond. I am very surprised by your reaction as I assumed you are a professional breeder with a reputable standing in the herp community. However, I'm beginning to wonder if that is the case.
I understand if you are having a rough day, perhaps. I was planning on getting my paycheck on the 5th and contacting you again to see if she was still available. I did not want to inconvenience you and have you put her on hold for me in the event someone else wanted her. That is most certainly not the case anymore, so there is no need.


Thanks

>>>>May 26, 4:15 pm: I guess you didn't read my ad correctly or in its entirety. I have absolutely no patience for time wasters, excuse givers, pics collectors and so on.
I'm not having a bad day...I expect adults who offer a price (a low one at that) to actually have the funds to pay for it when I accept. Apparently that wasn't the case either. Now, if you think the problem lies on my end, you might need to take a closer look at the scenario with your eyes open.
Buyers like you I definitely do not need nor want.

May 26, 6:34 pm: I am truly floored. You have managed to call me a child, a waste of time, incompetent with funds, and not thorough.
As a customer I am very disappointed.
As a person I am appalled.
I don't really know what to make of this. I honestly thought that as business owner you would do whatever it is in your power to understand and help a customer. A customer that you rely on your livelihood to continue your business.
I'm not trying to be rude. I am honestly just blown away by your treatment.
I'm afraid I don't have any more time to spend on this, like I said, I am very sorry. Have a good night.

>>>>>May 27, 2:50 am: I never called you a child or incompetent. Those are words you used on yourself. A waste of time...absolutely.
Customers actually make purchases...you are only a potential buyer who flaked after making an offer and reneging on it after the fact. You obviously don't see anything wrong and the ignorance in doing that though. However disappointed you may feel, try putting the shoe on the other foot for a change. You should make offers to people all day long, promise to pay, and then renege on it saying you purchased elsewhere and see how long it takes to get blacklisted from the hobby.
As for wasting your time, you did pretty well wasting mine. Good luck with your ignorance.

I honestly wasn't trying to upset anyone, and tried to be diplomatic as possible. At the end of the day it's about the ball pythons we all love and I didn't want to tarnish a relationship with someone whom I share a common interest with. I decided to post this review because even after I tried to mend things, he continued to make accusations and act unprofessionally. As a customer, if this were to have happened to someone else, I would have wanted to know instead of going in blind with no idea who I was dealing with. A review has the sole purpose of allowing a customer to share their experience, good or bad, and this was mine.
Trust me, I understand I could have perhaps thrown a smiley face in there or something to diffuse the situation. I understand that now. But I was so turned around by how I was being treated, it didn't cross my mind at the time.
For all you sellers out there, thank you for doing what you do. Without you, we would have no opportunities to expand the collections and love to new little critters. I have the utmost respect for all of you. I've never given a bad review, especially to someone of the BP community, but this...this was something else.

Hope this cleared some things up.

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It clears things up quite a bit....but not in the way I imagine you thought it would....

Dear Rob,

I manage a small business and one of my customers told me he was short on cash until his Social Security Check came. He made a big deal about how he spent so much money at the store. He asked me to order him a custom leather holster without a deposit. We never order anything without a deposit, I told him this, but he wined and moaned over two days, and promised he was good for it. When the holster came in, he said, "I found one cheaper someplace else." I replied, "I can't send this back it's custom." He answered, "Well I guess you'll have to sell it to someone else because I am not paying for it." It has his name embossed on it.

It used to be that you could do business in this country on a handshake. I remember those days and wish they would come back. When I read the e-mail string that the OP posted, I could feel your anger bubbling up inside of me. I understand what you are going through. So far I have managed to keep my temper, but I certainly understand why you lost yours. What happened to you was unacceptable. It speaks volumes about the moral and ethical depths this country has descended into.

I would like to thank you very much for what you do. I can only imagine how much work you must put in. I understand that no matter what needs to be done at a small business, the owner or manager has to do it, often off the clock. I also know that profits are down and costs are up just about every place and in every sector. I am sure that low ball offer took most of whatever profit might have been in that snake.

I wish people understood how dedicated and hard working most small business owners are. I wish people valued that hard work they way they used to. Thank you very much for what you do.

Sincerely,

David