Finally getting a BTS!

i'm finally moving forward with getting a BTS! My husband actually Ok'd me getting one for my anniversary gift... Now it's just down to whether or not I can find one I like for a price he won't freak out over. Unfortunately, I don't like the look of most northerns (which are the most readily available and cheapest option), so I'm looking into finding breeders of any of the other varieties. I found a breeder selling (I think CBB) IJs for $250 plus shipping, which I think is fair, but we'll see if my husband agrees. I wouldn't pay that much for animals that aren't CBB, so I'll have to confirm with the breeder. The same breeder also breeds lots of northerns, so I have that option if I don't go with an IJ.

I will be setting up the new skink in a 20gl long initially (assuming it is a baby), after that, it may get housed in a large tub for now. The breeder I'm looking into buying from uses freedom breeder racks for his skinks (no UV, he uses heat tape on the racks and supplements with Cal + D3 and vitamins) and says that they do very well, so I might look into getting an open-sided rack if I get more BTS. For now, I have all the equipment I need to setup either a UTH or a basking spot (excepting the daytime bulb), so I will have to see how the skink does.

Very excited about this finally happening. I will definitely post pics for you guys when I get him/her and of the setup.

First of all Congrats. You won't be disappointed, still one of my favorite pets!

Definately confirm that the IJ's are CBB, you don't find many in the US right now that aren't imported, either WC or "farm raised". I have 2 IJs that I have been trying to get to lock for 2 years now with no luck (imported), but I love them anyways. That being said make sure you brush up on the husbandry differences between northern's and IJ's or any Indo species of BTS. They need a higher humidity than northerns, different basking temps, can be a little more shy at first (may not be true if they are really CBB). Also look into the types of food they need, I always cringe when I hear "high quality dog and cat food".

I personally don't agree with keeping Blueys, or any lizard for that matter, in a rack, mine are active and use every inch of their 3x2x2 cages, I am currently building them 4x2x2 cages so they have more room. The no UV debate is always discussed, however I try to provide a naturalistic setup for mine, so deep bio active substrate, a basking spot (bulb, no heat mat) UV and plenty of hides. BUT to each their own.

yeah, I will definitely confirm them being CBB with him first... He breeds northerns and westerns, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were CBB. I've seen several farmed IJ or other indonesian skinks for sale online and just don't want to deal with treating for parasites, etc. If I can't find a CBB of the variety I want (or at least CB), then I will just go with a dark colored northern CBB baby.

Apparently this breeder has over 120 skinks and uses racks for all of them with good results (I think he's been breeding for 25 years). I'd love to do a 4' x 2' setup for this one, but may need to build a cage. It is tempting to use a rack because I can get a 3 shelf cb70 (AP economy) open sided rack for $180 including shipping, whereas that won't even buy one basic AP 4'x2' cage... I much prefer the look of the AP cages, but money may be a factor. I am also not very handy, so am a little intimidated about building my own cage... My biggest issue would be what materials to use and how to seal it so that it is water tight.

From my reading, you can use quality dog food if you add fresh veggies and supplements... Many people actually have issues trying to do a no-dog-food diet if they don't supplement correctly.

I am planning on doing a 50/50 mix of quality dog food and ground turkey (or other meat), then do 50% fresh veggies and 10% fruit and grind it all up in a food processor.

I've been told that you can freeze their food in ice cube trays, then thaw out each cube before feeding... I will probably do that and add vitamin / cal+D supplements before each meal. With only 1 skink to feed, I'm sure a batch of food will last me a long time.

Thanks for your advice!

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Originally Posted by artgecko

yeah, I will definitely confirm them being CBB with him first... He breeds northerns and westerns, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were CBB. I've seen several farmed IJ or other indonesian skinks for sale online and just don't want to deal with treating for parasites, etc. If I can't find a CBB of the variety I want (or at least CB), then I will just go with a dark colored northern CBB baby.

Apparently this breeder has over 120 skinks and uses racks for all of them with good results (I think he's been breeding for 25 years). I'd love to do a 4' x 2' setup for this one, but may need to build a cage. It is tempting to use a rack because I can get a 3 shelf cb70 (AP economy) open sided rack for $180 including shipping, whereas that won't even buy one basic AP 4'x2' cage... I much prefer the look of the AP cages, but money may be a factor. I am also not very handy, so am a little intimidated about building my own cage... My biggest issue would be what materials to use and how to seal it so that it is water tight.

From my reading, you can use quality dog food if you add fresh veggies and supplements... Many people actually have issues trying to do a no-dog-food diet if they don't supplement correctly.

I am planning on doing a 50/50 mix of quality dog food and ground turkey (or other meat), then do 50% fresh veggies and 10% fruit and grind it all up in a food processor.

I've been told that you can freeze their food in ice cube trays, then thaw out each cube before feeding... I will probably do that and add vitamin / cal+D supplements before each meal. With only 1 skink to feed, I'm sure a batch of food will last me a long time.

Thanks for your advice!

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He breeds westerns too?! I love westerns, but I am pretty sure they are way out of my price range! In my experience in building cages has come out to cost the same as buying off the shelf, however none of the cages available have a lip to offer a deep layer of substrate for burrowing etc, so I have had to modify the current cages I have now (visions) to allow for it. So building my own cages didn't save me any money, but I have gotten the exact cage I want for the same cost as an off the shelf that I would have to modify. All that being said I know that the "critter cam" guys in Australia use racks with success, it is just my personal preference to not use them. I just am not a fan because I see how active my guys can be.

I had to go through all the treatments for parasites for my female, but my male was a long term captive from a breeding program before we got him. You most definately can freeze the food. I make about a months batch at a time to share between my 2 blueys and tegu. As adults the blueys eat twice a week and I dose with Cal+D3 on one of those servings, but like I said I also provide the UVB. When I mix my food I used snails, ground turkey, gizards, liver, kidney, and eggs for the protein, then I mix in a variety of fruits, veggies and greens. Have you browsed through the food chart on the BTS site? There was a lot of really good info on there, and LLL actually made a really good 20 min video and posted it on youtube of how they make their food for their breeders. I used that as a baseline and build off of it. It took me quite a while to get them dialed in because a lot of the info out there for the Blueys is based on Northerns or other Aussie species. Luckily LLL's program was focusing on Indos and the girl that used to run it provided me with a lot of help along the way. Good luck finding one and be sure to post up pictures of the lil one when you get it!

Let me know if you have any questions along the way!

Thanks again for the info..
My bad... Easterns not Westerns *face palm*. Another guy on the BTS forum actually has a litter of eye-banded Easterns. those are only for people wanting "investment quality" animals though, as there are not many eye-banded Easterns in the US. the Easterns this breeder has are not eye banded.

The breeder I'm looking at is this guy. He doesn't have the IJs listed on his website, I read in an old post that he had some for sale, but again, I've got to check to see if they are CBB. He has a lot of Northerns for sale.

There's also a guy selling some Mereuke (sp?) juvies on KS / Fauna that I might look into. I think those are farm bred or WC, but appear to be long-term captives. They are about 12" long though and I was wanting to grow up a baby, so they may not be the best option. and there is one baby Meruke being auctioned for charity on a FB group.. I might look into that as well (the baby is stunning) but because it is CBB, I'm sure it will go for far more than I can spend. I'd like to stay around $200, but if I get a non-northern BTS, I don't think that will happen.

I did watch the LLL food video. It's a shame she isn't working with their BTS anymore or I'd consider ordering from them. I'm basically going to follow her recipe, but add in some quality dog food (mainly for the vitamins). I've got a food processor, so will probably grind up everything in that. I have heard of some people having success using lower quality dog food (with by-products) as part of their diet.. I'm considering attempting this to see how it goes. If I can find a brand that specifically uses, say, "beef byproducts" that would be better (mostly organs sinew, etc.) than a generic 'meat by products", but I'm still looking at options.

it's more of a question of availability for me than $$ at this point. There are not might good high-end brands available in my area and I don't want to have any shipped in. It may just be cheaper to use ground turkey and chicken gizzards / livers / hearts.

I was browsing online and saw that boamaster is offering a 4' x 2' x 12" pvc cage pretty darn cheap (I think it's under $200 including shipping), but I'd have to see if he will cut a mesh hole for heating in the top... If I were better at building things, I'd hazard doing it myself, but I'd hate to spend money and attempt to build a cage and have it not work out in the end.

I found the thread on the BTS page where he posted the IJ babies... Looks like they are at least CB, if not CBB. Decent pics of them, but I'd be curious to see if any have gotten lighter after they shed. I'm leaning more towards a very contrasty skink (like a meruke), so if these will be darker like the mum, I may pass.

Ya it is a shame that she left...but from what I understand their program is still going and they should have some babies soon. If they are their CBB then it will say so on their site...and for what it's worth even though mine were imported they calmed down just the same...handling the parasites wasn't too bad...the boa master cage doesn't sound like a bad route....the reason I went with 2ft tall cages was because I wire my lights inside...it allows for a lower wattage bulb to be used...

Merukes are beautiful, but you will find that in all the indo species and the IJs colors will fluctuate...my male is very dark and my female almost has a Carmel color to her



http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...c6d550f458.jpg

Nice looking skinks!
Did you find that yours got darker or lighter over time (as they aged) or could you pretty much tell what they would like like from when they were little?

Here's the adds I'm looking at. I've contacted the seller for some additional info on these. After looking at more pics, I think the Merauke's appeal to me more than the IJs (more contrast maybe?).

#1

#3

I really like the patterning (on the side / throat) and overall light tones on number 3, but I love the pink / orange on the throat of #1, I'm just not sure if either will get darker as they age or gain more color. I've asked the seller about their temperaments and background.

Thank you! They definately can have more contrast...different patterns etc... I love all the blueys but the IJs have a special place in my heart...I just love the bright red bellies...I got both of mine full grown already, but I have been told for the most part the colors tend to stick...this may not be true for all of them though.

That one for sale is very nice! The blueys personality is so great I think you will be happy with either or...mine love to be up high so they will perch on my shoulder for literally hours.

And here is another pick just because I love showing em off [emoji1]


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...ed1e860635.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...1bd693d5a5.jpg

Great pics again! The BTS looks so chill in the second pic (and HUGE! lol). I ended up going with #3. The seller said they were originally imports, but they have been with him for 5 months and are healthy. He also said that #3 is better looking in person and is a little more outgoing than the other one.

I feel very lucky to have gotten him for such a good price. The same seller had these 2 listed a month ago for $275 each, but he is going on a long trip and wants to downsize (hence the price drop). He will be shipped on Monday or Tuesday next week.

I will be using a CB70 tub setup for temporary housing, but plan on ordering the boamaster cage for his permanent setup.

Thanks again for your help / advice!

Thanks for the pics jclaiborne!

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Great pics again! The BTS looks so chill in the second pic (and HUGE! lol). I ended up going with #3. The seller said they were originally imports, but they have been with him for 5 months and are healthy. He also said that #3 is better looking in person and is a little more outgoing than the other one.

I feel very lucky to have gotten him for such a good price. The same seller had these 2 listed a month ago for $275 each, but he is going on a long trip and wants to downsize (hence the price drop). He will be shipped on Monday or Tuesday next week.

I will be using a CB70 tub setup for temporary housing, but plan on ordering the boamaster cage for his permanent setup.

Thanks again for your help / advice!

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Awesome! So glad you found one you liked. They can be very chill for the most part. Being that yours is an import give it a little time to setting without disturbing it. I have found that my female can sometimes be a little hand shy at first, and she has been in my care for 2 years. So instead of just going in and grabbing your bluey put your hand flat in the cage in front of it and let it get use to you and your scent for at least the first few interactions, then as it stops backing away from your hand, you can start scooping it up.

Thanks for the advice!
It should be shipped next Monday or Tuesday, so it'll be here Tuesday - Wednesday. Hopefully that'll give me time to setup everything. I'm getting supplies to make my first batch of skink chow. I'm planning on using a high quality dog food (EVO 95% beef), frozen ground turkey, egg, and veggies (kale, carrots, squash, apple). I've never been so excited to use my food processor lol.

What substrate mix do you use for yours? I think I might use cypres mulch and spaghnum moss.. I've never bought them in bulk before, but people recommended buying them from home depot.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks for the advice!
It should be shipped next Monday or Tuesday, so it'll be here Tuesday - Wednesday. Hopefully that'll give me time to setup everything. I'm getting supplies to make my first batch of skink chow. I'm planning on using a high quality dog food (EVO 95% beef), frozen ground turkey, egg, and veggies (kale, carrots, squash, apple). I've never been so excited to use my food processor lol.

What substrate mix do you use for yours? I think I might use cypres mulch and spaghnum moss.. I've never bought them in bulk before, but people recommended buying them from home depot.

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Sorry, just saw this. For mine I actually use dirt (topsoil), sand, and peat moss. You can get it all from HD, just make sure there are no additives like manuer, fertalizer etc. The Peat Moss at HD is organic, for sand I use play sand as it is washed, and the topsoil is basically just fill dirt. From that mix you can go bio-active if you decide to add a cleanup crew. It is more of a natural setup and holds moisture/humidity better than mulch.

Thanks! I may try to do a bio active setup once I get the pvc cage... Not sure if that will work in the temporary bin setup. I do like the idea of him being able to burrow and I'm not sure how well that would work with mulch.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks! I may try to do a bio active setup once I get the pvc cage... Not sure if that will work in the temporary bin setup. I do like the idea of him being able to burrow and I'm not sure how well that would work with mulch.

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I started with mulch and it was a PAIN. Now I don't use any form of mulch for any of my reptiles. For the bin you can still use the dirt mixture and add some depth to it (if the substrate is deep dont bother with a heat mat) and just not add the bugs.

Thanks!
I did go with a dirt mixture, used a combination of peat, sand, dirt, and a little mulch.. I think I have enough bedding supplies for the next year lol. It is about 4" deep, so enough room to dig. I am just going to do a heat lamp and florescent light... No UTH. So far I've got 2 large pieces of cork bark on the "cool" end as hides and a water bowl and small basking rock... apparently the one I had was smaller than I remember. I will have to find a bigger rock and put in some some fake plants, but otherwise, I think the setup is good to go. The tub I'm using is basically the size of a CB70, but about 18" tall instead of 6". Hopefully it'll be big enough for a couple months until I can order the pvc cage.

I am testing temps now with the basking light / rock. I did a mesh cutout over the hot side of the tub so that it will get uninterrupted light from the lamp.

Awesome! What Temps are you going for? I keep my hot spot right around 100

I think anything around 95-100 would be fine.. The tub is in my critter room and the ambient temp stays at 78 - 80f.

I got a large piece of granite stone to go under the hot spot, so hopefully that will work.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I think anything around 95-100 would be fine.. The tub is in my critter room and the ambient temp stays at 78 - 80f.

I got a large piece of granite stone to go under the hot spot, so hopefully that will work.

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Sounds good. I have seen my guys basking at as high as 110! however that raises the ambients too high in the cage they are in now so I had to find a happy medium. Did some measuring yesterday and their hot spot fluctuates between 96-103 depending on how warm the ambients are in the house.

Basking spot was at about 104 today. He came in the mail this morning and seems to be doing great.. A lot of huffing when I got him out of the box lol. He has eaten a little already and been out basking some.

I will try and get some pics of him.. Haven't wanted to disturb him while he is settling in, but I may be able to take some pics while he is in the enclosure tomorrow.

He is actually bigger than I thought he would be.. In the ad, the seller said they were about 12" or a little over.. I think he's more like 15-16'. He seems to be in great shape.. No sign of mites, etc. He's sneezed a few times, but I'm assuming that is due to the change in environment.

Very Cool! Can't wait to see. My guys still huff at me quite a bit, and have only tried to bite once. You will love its personality once it is settled in. The sneezing shouldn't be too big of a deal as long as it isn't constant.

I finally took a pic of him.. The lighting isn't the best. It's a good sign that he didn't bolt when I took the lid off his tub. I am going to replace his basking rocks with a raised tile so that he has more room to move around under it.
[IMG]http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...20in%20tub.jpg[/IMG]

Very cool, it does have some size to it already, has it been taking meals from you pretty well? What are your humidity levels at? If you do the raised tile make sure he can't knock it over on himself, mine bulldoze everything, I use to prop things up and he kept crawling under them and lifting, which would knock them on top of him. My substrate was deep enough that he could dig out, but just something to watch out for.

Thanks, yeah... I think he is pretty big... Larger than I expected. He has already eaten some. I took the food out of his cage yesterday and will feed him again tomorrow... I plan on feeding 2-3 x a week and leaving the food in overnight then removing the next day.
Humidity has been about 70-80%. I got the raised tile idea from someone on the BTS FB group. They said to use irrigation system pvc tubing (about 6-8" tall) and gorilla glue it to a tile, thus giving it "legs", then use a narrower tile as a ramp of sorts. I think it would be pretty stable, although I'm not sure about how to secure the "ramp".

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks, yeah... I think he is pretty big... Larger than I expected. He has already eaten some. I took the food out of his cage yesterday and will feed him again tomorrow... I plan on feeding 2-3 x a week and leaving the food in overnight then removing the next day.
Humidity has been about 70-80%. I got the raised tile idea from someone on the BTS FB group. They said to use irrigation system pvc tubing (about 6-8" tall) and gorilla glue it to a tile, thus giving it "legs", then use a narrower tile as a ramp of sorts. I think it would be pretty stable, although I'm not sure about how to secure the "ramp".

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Nice, glad he is eating. It won't be long before there will be nothing left to leave in over night. I feed my adults twice a week. Put the food in before work, and once I get home it has been devoured. The PVC tubing is a good idea, it will make it stable. as far as securing the ramp you could probably silicone it on and let it dry overnight, or use something like liquid nail or similar adhesive, then just keep it out of the cage long enough to fully cure.

That's a good idea.. I'll have to try that. He seems to be adjusting pretty well too. I had to change water again today and he stayed on his basking spot and only huffed when I had to move his tail out of the dish to remove it. I may try hand-feeding him tomorrow and see how that goes.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

That's a good idea.. I'll have to try that. He seems to be adjusting pretty well too. I had to change water again today and he stayed on his basking spot and only huffed when I had to move his tail out of the dish to remove it. I may try hand-feeding him tomorrow and see how that goes.

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If you see that he is a little hand shy when you try to feed him, get a spoon and put some food on that to give him a little distance and see how that works out.