now I'm really confused

For 2 nights, my BP was out of his hides and extended all over his enclosure every evening. When I approached him, he softly hissed at me. Periodically, he'd do a little soak in his water dish but otherwise was just hanging out.

I took him out to handle him yesterday afternoon and he was alert and docile. No hissing. I thought he might be hungry, so I took out a rat to thaw. We've only fed live prey before but thought it might be time to try to switch him to f/t.

The rat was fully thawed and was still in the plastic bag in which I got it. I submerged the bag in hot tap water for about 15 minutes to warm it up a bit once I saw Haku out and about in his enclosure. I checked to make sure that the rat wasn't cold anywhere, took it out of the bag with 16" tongs, and opened up the snake enclosure.

I dangled the rat for a moment and then touched Haku's nose with it. He coiled around it at the speed of light! It was so fast that I kind of jumped. LOL He never went after live prey that fast.

After he'd coiled around it for a bit, he opened up and left it on the bottom of the enclosure. When we checked half an hour later, he was just lying there with his head resting on the dead rat . . . but showed no signs of interest in eating it.

The rat was still there this morning. I removed it.

I'm guessing that the hissing was his way of telling me that he was hungry, but why would he coil/attack and then just leave it? Should I go ahead and get some live prey for him right away, or wait a few days? Should I try again with a f/t?

The learning curve never ends.

He could have not been Hungary. Or he just lost interest because the rat was not moving.

I have a female like that. She is 2 years old though and has been on live he whole life. She snaps at me, not the F/T, but when she misses me and snatches the rat she will coil around it but not eat it. F/T and live smell different. Even us people can smell the difference so snakes know. They also sometimes have a hard time finding the right end to start eating at and then they lose interest. This is quite common, and I find it more common with F/T eaters.

Getting hissed at usually is just a warning but once you have them in your hands, they can be the sweetest animals in your collection. I personally do not know why this is what they do. I can only guess that you are huge animal, and big animals scare the little ones. I honestly cannot say.

You can keep trying F/T all you want. I know I never give up on my live eaters. I waste food doing so but to me it is worth it.

Good luck

On those difficult switchers to FT I usually jiggle the rat a bit after the snake has coiled. Nothing too crazy, just enough to fool the snake into thinking the prey is alive. They will almost always eat after a strike that way.

Are you sure the rat was hot enough?

I feed FT, and Since i need to cross a room with his dinner i make sure the food is at least 115 degrees and it does cool to 105 by the time i get it to his viv and get it opened and offer it to him. I check it with a temp gun, to make sure it is the right temp, I also found that the head end stays colder longer then the body so i always check the skull end for temp. Hope this helps.

for a few seconds after the strike, this will sometimes cause an extra strong feeding response.

David

Just stick with live. Seems like a finicky eater, I would save yourself the hassle. Its just fine to feed live as long as you monitor the interaction. People waste so much time measuring the temperature of their food items, doing zombie dances, and pontificating on forums about the benefits of f/t. Just put a rat in and let nature take its course. Make sure that the rodent doesn't harm your snake and you are golden.

My snakes have always eaten F/T and they have inexplicably left the food on the bottom of the cage a few times. They don't do it often anymore, but when they were younger, they did it every once in a while. Like another user mentioned, a couple of times they have had trouble finding the head and have given up trying to eat their food by the time I check up on them. If you want to switch to F/T, I would keep trying. I think it's worth it - it's much less trouble to keep a freezer full of frozen rats than to continually buy live ones. Of course, many people are okay with purchasing live rats on a regular basis. It depends on if you think it's worth it. But I wouldn't worry too much about the snake missing a single meal. Well-fed snakes can usually miss quite a few meals and be totally fine. :gj:

What i did with my live feeders when i was trying to switch them to F/T is leave a couple live rats in a plastic bin above the enclosure or rat for about 3-4 hours, then i would thaw out the frozen rat (making the head warmer than the rest of its body), scent the thawed rat really well with a live rat, allow the snake to strike and coil then move the F/T rat around for about 30 seconds so the snake believes the rat is struggling - usually the snake will take the rat without an issue. However some snakes are set on live rodents and wont take F/T regardless, but most will as long as you stay consistent and continue offering F/T.

Enclosure or rack*

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Originally Posted by PassionFruitReptiles

What i did with my live feeders when i was trying to switch them to F/T is leave a couple live rats in a plastic bin above the enclosure or rat for about 3-4 hours, then i would thaw out the frozen rat (making the head warmer than the rest of its body), scent the thawed rat really well with a live rat, allow the snake to strike and coil then move the F/T rat around for about 30 seconds so the snake believes the rat is struggling - usually the snake will take the rat without an issue. However some snakes are set on live rodents and wont take F/T regardless, but most will as long as you stay consistent and continue offering F/T.

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I don't really want to keep rats as pets. Somehow, I think the cat would find that a bit too tempting. :D Our current method is to put the boxed live rat on top of the enclosure for a few hours, just like you wrote, so the snake can scent the prey and get interested.

Thank you for the suggestion about moving the rat around after the s&c. Someone I know who working in a pet store told me that they'd dip the f/t rats in hot chicken broth prior to feeding them to their snakes. I might give that a try. What have I got to lose except yet another frozen rat and some broth?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCS

I have a female like that. She is 2 years old though and has been on live he whole life. She snaps at me, not the F/T, but when she misses me and snatches the rat she will coil around it but not eat it. F/T and live smell different. Even us people can smell the difference so snakes know. They also sometimes have a hard time finding the right end to start eating at and then they lose interest. This is quite common, and I find it more common with F/T eaters.

Getting hissed at usually is just a warning but once you have them in your hands, they can be the sweetest animals in your collection. I personally do not know why this is what they do. I can only guess that you are huge animal, and big animals scare the little ones. I honestly cannot say.

You can keep trying F/T all you want. I know I never give up on my live eaters. I waste food doing so but to me it is worth it.

Good luck

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For some reason, I didn't get any notifications about responses to my original post. Hmm.

At any rate, yes, he's very sweet and curious once he's in my hands but can be a bit temperamental in his enclosure. Honestly, it took me a month to realize that DUH snakes hiss! LOL

Lots of wasted food in our various attempts to feed. He seemed to still be hungry after his last meal of a rather small rat, so I got him a mouse a couple of days later. He killed it quickly and with glee, but didn't eat it. The crows feed well here. :rolleyes: Something might as well enjoy a meal at our expense.

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Originally Posted by M.P.C

Are you sure the rat was hot enough?

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That's kind of what I'm thinking. 15 minutes in hot water doesn't sound like enough time to fully thaw a frozen rat. I do mine for at least an hour and still use a blow dryer to heat it up to "live" temp and works just fine for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smitty33

That's kind of what I'm thinking. 15 minutes in hot water doesn't sound like enough time to fully thaw a frozen rat. I do mine for at least an hour and still use a blow dryer to heat it up to "live" temp and works just fine for me.

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The rat was fully thawed and at room temp before I put it in its plastic bag into the bowl of hot water. I felt it to make sure it wasn't at all cold. I'm not quite ready to invest in an infra-red thermometer to check temps.

Some Ball pythons can sure be confusing it seems. Mine is pretty straight forward though, (it is a normal). When I read some of the stories here it makes me thankful I have the one I have. It has never tried to bite me even though I have handled it with blue eyes like I noticed last night. (I quickly put it back in it's hide though.) I don't want to ask to be bitten. It has never ate or wanted to eat fro./thawed. But quickly will eat live in it's dwelling. I watch for the signs that it is hungry. So right now I am having no feeding problems. But it is still a young one and eating large mice. So problems might develop later on.
On the subject of infra red thermometers. I really love mine, to keep an eye on the dwelling temperature. I keep it on top of the saran wrapped cardboard I have on the screen top,I open the trap door and check both hides quickly and easily. I also have used it to check the body temp of the thawed mice and a rat pup I heated up (after room thawing to softness) , with a red 100 watt light. The infra red thermometers are so neat. I bought mine at Pet Smart, made by National Geographic and it's wasn't very expensive at all. Well worth the money.