Help there's a snake in my sink!!

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A cute one that is ;) Boots is taking a bath before he sheds!

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Just a heads up since you're probably going to get a lot of replies to this effect.... but there's no reason to ever soak BPs. They don't particularly enjoy it (if you're curious as to whether they want to soak or not, give them a large water dish. My bet is you'll never see them soaking) but before a shed it can actually be detrimental as it affects the oils that build up on/under the skin to help with the shed.

The best thing to help a snake shed is increasing overall humidity a bit or introducing a humid hide; basically a hide stuffed with wet sphagnum moss or a box with wet paper towels inside if you can't get the moss.

Just an additional bit of advice; this comes from having to be extra-paranoid about stuff like this for my frogs, but anything like a sink or tub that has ever had chemicals (soap, detergent, ect) in it can be potentially harmful to an animal even if it's been awhile or you've washed it out.

I never soak mine. He just goes in his water dish.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Just a heads up since you're probably going to get a lot of replies to this effect.... but there's no reason to ever soak BPs. They don't particularly enjoy it (if you're curious as to whether they want to soak or not, give them a large water dish. My bet is you'll never see them soaking) but before a shed it can actually be detrimental as it affects the oils that build up on/under the skin to help with the shed.

The best thing to help a snake shed is increasing overall humidity a bit or introducing a humid hide; basically a hide stuffed with wet sphagnum moss or a box with wet paper towels inside if you can't get the moss.

Just an additional bit of advice; this comes from having to be extra-paranoid about stuff like this for my frogs, but anything like a sink or tub that has ever had chemicals (soap, detergent, ect) in it can be potentially harmful to an animal even if it's been awhile or you've washed it out.

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Mm, thanks :) we have always soaked them after their eyes go back to normal. Every time we get a full shed. I guess we just do what works for us, because we've always done it that way.(not to be rude) Thank you for the advice though! And just so you know, I usually use a plastic tub for soaking, but it's currently in use so I had to make do with the sink 😞
Here is the shed!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...940d56499c.jpg

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Just saying, there aren't many pools of water in termite mounds in Ghana. They're perfectly capable of shedding without a soak and all it does is add extra stress for them. :rolleyes:

I wonder how many people make that blank statement about never seeing their snakes interacting with their water dish, also have racks. I have all my snakes where I can see them through out the day. While that not exacactly display animals, they do come out a lot more than I think people realize. I agree about the dangers of soap residue, I still think there is a lot of ways people can have healthy results. Peace. And we are aware now that all ball pythons do not live in termite mounds. Some of the young males have been found to be quite arboreal.

Not sure about how others house their BPs but mine is in a large plastic tub. Of course, she's usually being abnormal and sitting out in the open under her plants despite having perfectly adequate hides, so I'm sure the occasional BP probably enjoys soaking. Who knows. My garters (which are often found in and around bodies of water in the wild) love soaking and swimming so I try to give them the option. My BP could care less about a giant bowl of water so I figured there was no reason to waste space with it.

Whether or not they like it, the fact that soaks have the potential to mess up a shed if you do it at the wrong time pre-shed remains true. Of course, it's not a huge deal. Shed issues are pretty easily fixed.

I think there are so many ways to go about keeping your snakes healthy and happy. And the thing I like about this form, my first form. Is that you can learn a lot off your follow keepers, even if it's something not to do. And I do know that soaking at the wrong time can do more bad then good.😀

He has no room for a big dish. Like I said we do this when the eyes clear at the end of their sheds and they come clean every time. Oh, and he decided to use ME to start his shed lol

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Eh, just telling you that it's not recommended and the reasons why. If you want to keep doing something that serves no purpose that's your call.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Eh, just telling you that it's not recommended and the reasons why. If you want to keep doing something that serves no purpose that's your call.

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Hey I'm just doing what I'm told since I'm not allowed to mist

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He is a cutie. When I see mine go into blue I mist the sides of the tubs a little bit.

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Originally Posted by SCWood

Hey I'm just doing what I'm told since I'm not allowed to mist

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No offense, but if you're not allowed to do something as simple as mist and maintain basic tank conditions, why do you have three BPs? The things you do to work around some of the frankly ridiculous rules you say you have to deal with range from pointless and stressful to borderline dangerous to your BPs (this is taking a lot of older posts into account).
I understand you have to obey the rules of the house, but if you know you're in a situation where someone won't let you properly take care of your snakes why keep getting them?

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

No offense, but if you're not allowed to do something as simple as mist and maintain basic tank conditions, why do you have three BPs? The things you do to work around some of the frankly ridiculous rules you say you have to deal with range from pointless and stressful to borderline dangerous to your BPs (this is taking a lot of older posts into account).
I understand you have to obey the rules of the house, but if you know you're in a situation where someone won't let you properly take care of your snakes why keep getting them?

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Hey, hey now, no reason to get hostile. What proof do you have that soaking a bp is harmful, especially if the op has been doing this for a long time and the snake pictured is obviously on weight, not dehydrated and healthy. I had a bp for a while that was a rescue and had what had to be at least 3 sheds (most likely more) stuck to his body. The previous owner said he hadn't had a complete shed in, oh god, years. I was horrified. Anyway, I had to soak the poor guy three times over a week to get all the shed skin off. Never hurt him at all, in fact afterwards he moved around a lot better and seemed relieved. He would also soak himself in the large water dish I provided, even though I misted him every day.

Soaking a snake to get a retained shed off is different from soaking one prior to a shed. At best, soaking one prior to a shed is pointless and stressful to the snake, at worst it can remove essential oils and lubricants that the snake produces to help with the shed. This has been documented and supported by countless other members here. Just check out the search bar.

I have a 15 year old garter (they're supposed to live about 8 years) that was fed solely on a toxic species of fish (I didn't know any better) for the first ten years of his life. It worked just fine for me, but just because it didn't cause problems for me doesn't mean I would recommend it to someone else or condone it if someone else told me they were doing it. I was given information that what I was doing was wrong and changed it-- against the wishes of my parents, who I lived with at the time.

And not being allowed to mist, moving the snake around two or three times prior to/during feeding, being unable to feed either enough or proper sized prey, ect. is a reason to be a bit frustrated. There have been multiple threads where simple, safe suggestions have been completely disregarded because they are 'against the rules'. I'm not getting hostile, just pointing out that this user has a habit of disregarding reasonable, well-thought-out advice because of 'rules' that make no sense. I can sympathize with sudden crazy rules about reptile care (for example a couple years ago I was in a situation where my mother was okay with me getting an animal but suddenly decided I couldn't use heat pads) but I don't understand continuing to acquire reptiles already knowing that these rules are in place.

It's really weird to see all the stuff you're saying about how soaking a ball python is pointless. I soak both my girls very often and not only do they seem to enjoy it, but it helps their shed a ton. it also helps hydration, I've heard. I think that any ball python owner that actually takes the time to personally soak their snake (wether the snake likes it or not) is a fantastic, responsible and caring owner. if what she's doing is working for her, let her be.

Seriously, use the search bar. Look up what people with far more experience than you or I have to say on the matter. It does have the potential to disrupt a shed cycle. Will it always? Certainly not. That would be a horrible adaption.

There are no known benefits to soaking a BP. Plain and simple. It doesn't really help with hydration any more than giving them water to drink does (yes, if you have a severely dehydrated snake, putting it in a tub of water may encourage drinking and thus help). But if it helps with hydration, where do you think they absorb the water? Through their extremely thick skin?

I don't doubt that SCWood cares about her snakes. You can tell that from the tone of many of her posts. However, the 'rules' she says she has to follow are frankly ridiculous. It can get frustrating to provide advice and have it disregarded because of a random rule that doesn't seem to make any sense, and that frustration just kind of spilled out in this thread.

Also, if you believe soaking your BPs is truly beneficial, I would challenge you to go a couple shed-cycles without doing it. If you provide proper humidity in the enclosure, I guarantee you you will still get perfect shed results. Besides, what do they do that makes you think they 'enjoy' it?

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Originally Posted by maudie

Iif what she's doing is working for her, let her be.

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Also, just to add on, I hate this logic. I used horrible husbandry practices for years with my first snake (including keeping him on potentially deadly bedding and feeding him toxic food items) and he has lived almost double the life-expectancy of his species. I was a kid and didn't know any better at the time. But that is a perfect example of why 'it works so keep doing it' isn't always the best strategy. Most snakes would have died in the conditions he was kept in.

No, soaking a snake will not kill it, and I'm not trying to make that comparison. Even if it caused a bad shed that's not the end of the world. My problem is with the logic of 'I've always done it this way and it works so it must be the best way' when there is pretty concrete evidence out there suggesting otherwise.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Seriously, use the search bar. Look up what people with far more experience than you or I have to say on the matter. It does have the potential to disrupt a shed cycle. Will it always? Certainly not. That would be a horrible adaption.

There are no known benefits to soaking a BP. Plain and simple. It doesn't really help with hydration any more than giving them water to drink does (yes, if you have a severely dehydrated snake, putting it in a tub of water may encourage drinking and thus help). But if it helps with hydration, where do you think they absorb the water? Through their extremely thick skin?

I don't doubt that SCWood cares about her snakes. You can tell that from the tone of many of her posts. However, the 'rules' she says she has to follow are frankly ridiculous. It can get frustrating to provide advice and have it disregarded because of a random rule that doesn't seem to make any sense, and that frustration just kind of spilled out in this thread.

Also, if you believe soaking your BPs is truly beneficial, I would challenge you to go a couple shed-cycles without doing it. If you provide proper humidity in the enclosure, I guarantee you you will still get perfect shed results. Besides, what do they do that makes you think they 'enjoy' it?

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Everything you've said is 100% correct...

...and your advice is falling on deaf ears.

So if you really want to help, my advice to you is to be there to help when the OP asks for assistance in combating some stress-induced illness further down the line.

Bottom line - regular soaks for a ball pythons are not needed. They come with a plethora of risks and stress the animal. Period. If anyone wants to argue that, prepare to do it with facts, not your limited or incorrect perceptions of what your snake likes or doesn't like.

You can start by enlightening us on the signs of comfort and discomfort in snakes. If you can't do that, don't bother replying.

...and you can provide humidity without misting.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

No offense, but if you're not allowed to do something as simple as mist and maintain basic tank conditions, why do you have three BPs? The things you do to work around some of the frankly ridiculous rules you say you have to deal with range from pointless and stressful to borderline dangerous to your BPs (this is taking a lot of older posts into account).
I understand you have to obey the rules of the house, but if you know you're in a situation where someone won't let you properly take care of your snakes why keep getting them?

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Yes I know it's ridiculous. Understand that my MIL is kind of a wack job...for instance, she said I could keep a rat and a week later tried to kill it because she said I was 'annoying her'. I'm not allowed to mist because she uses wood in her tanks and it turns green whenever I mist. Her rule is, if the snake is eating, pooping, and breathing, nothing needs to be done. She almost evicted me for bringing a scale into the house. She says no gauges, no misting, no scales, etc. .. the snake is breathing yes? Then leave it alone. That is HER logic. Now imagine, I am only 18, living with her because I love her daughter and I truly have nowhere else to go nor could I afford it. My family is 4 states North of me and they don't care much either to be frank.
I am LUCKY she said I could get a tstat and the only reason is because I pestered her with pictures of snake burns. Obviously working with this woman is difficult, especially since she likes to say I never do anything but I care for all of the 27 animals under her roof on top of other daily chores AND a job. It is not to say she doesn't love her animals because she does. She just gets lazy in an attempt to save her money and is not fully educated like she should be.

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I would also like to add to the record that I do not keep 'aquiring reptiles' I have one, she has one, and her daughter has one. The roommate has 3. I take care of theirs and he takes care of his. I only added them to the list because they are part of the household.

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Originally Posted by maudie

It's really weird to see all the stuff you're saying about how soaking a ball python is pointless. I soak both my girls very often and not only do they seem to enjoy it, but it helps their shed a ton. it also helps hydration, I've heard. I think that any ball python owner that actually takes the time to personally soak their snake (wether the snake likes it or not) is a fantastic, responsible and caring owner. if what she's doing is working for her, let her be.

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If you are going to encourage people to soak their snakes on a regular basis, perhaps you would like to help them with the consequences when they occur? You do know what those consequences are.....right?

Your snake does not enjoy it.

The effects on hydration are minimal. Ball pythons are not tortoises.

...and the effects on shedding are very often detrimental.

I think that misinformed - not fantastic, responsible or caring - owners soak their ball pythons.

Prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

If you are going to encourage people to soak their snakes on a regular basis, perhaps you would like to help them with the consequences when they occur? You do know what those consequences are.....right?

Your snake does not enjoy it.

The effects on hydration are minimal. Ball pythons are not tortoises.

...and the effects on shedding are very often detrimental.

I think that misinformed - not fantastic, responsible or caring - owners soak their ball pythons.

Prove me wrong.

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I feel that, yes, I was misinformed in this case. It's so odd that whenever I ask people what to do to help my snake in an upcoming shed, the first thing I hear is 'soak him'. I understand what you are saying. Please don't think I'm disregarding it. If you could tell me how to provide proper humidity without use of misting, it would be greatly appreciated.

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A humid hide is a pretty good place to start. A hunk of sphagnum moss in one of the hides that you moisten frequently will work wonders for your humidity. You can also provide a large bowl of water in your setup if you honestly believe your snake enjoys the soaking. I have an oddball who loves to soak in his water bowl (even if he is quickly outgrowing it). His setup is identical to the other 3 snakes in the same sized tub as him, and a scaled-down version of my bigger tubs, no mites or other bugs, and it's only him that soaks. It's possible I'm missing something with him, but the best reason I can tell is that he just likes it. I still wouldn't take him out to soak him, but if he wants to do it himself I don't mind.

All I'll say on the soaking issue is that with over 40 snakes, most of which are bps, none of them ever get soaked and I nearly always have perfect sheds. Sometimes I have issues in the winter due to the house being so dry that keeping cage humidity can be a pain.
So to the OP, are you saying this person won even let you have proper gauges in your own cage?

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Originally Posted by SCWood

I feel that, yes, I was misinformed in this case. It's so odd that whenever I ask people what to do to help my snake in an upcoming shed, the first thing I hear is 'soak him'. I understand what you are saying. Please don't think I'm disregarding it. If you could tell me how to provide proper humidity without use of misting, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Yeah, a lot of people recommend things when they shouldn't.

I really do not envy people coming into this hobby these days. There are so many forums out there, and a lot of people offer advice when they shouldn't.

As Daigga stated, a humid hide is an excellent way to provide a humid microclimate without resorting to misting the entire cage. It provide all of the benefits of humidity, without requiring the owner to turn the enclosure into a giant petri dish.

The idea is to take a hide and fill it with dampened and wrung sphagnum moss. Alternately, people are now producing humid hides which are essentially a pottery hide with a small fluid reservoir on top. The pottery absorbs and releases the water over a period of time creating a humid hide without the moss.

http://www.reptile-mania.com/759_472...pg?u=154342280

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

All I'll say on the soaking issue is that with over 40 snakes, most of which are bps, none of them ever get soaked and I nearly always have perfect sheds. Sometimes I have issues in the winter due to the house being so dry that keeping cage humidity can be a pain.
So to the OP, are you saying this person won even let you have proper gauges in your own cage?

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Thank you :) I will try this!

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Originally Posted by Daigga

A humid hide is a pretty good place to start. A hunk of sphagnum moss in one of the hides that you moisten frequently will work wonders for your humidity. You can also provide a large bowl of water in your setup if you honestly believe your snake enjoys the soaking. I have an oddball who loves to soak in his water bowl (even if he is quickly outgrowing it). His setup is identical to the other 3 snakes in the same sized tub as him, and a scaled-down version of my bigger tubs, no mites or other bugs, and it's only him that soaks. It's possible I'm missing something with him, but the best reason I can tell is that he just likes it. I still wouldn't take him out to soak him, but if he wants to do it himself I don't mind.

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Absolutely. The only reason one snake has gauges now is because he came with them in his tank. She will be furious if I buy more for mine. I use an in fared temp gun when I can and I measure humidity with a gauge that has no backing and she hasn't noticed yet 😧

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Yeah, a lot of people recommend things when they shouldn't.

I really do not envy people coming into this hobby these days. There are so many forums out there, and a lot of people offer advice when they shouldn't.

As Daigga stated, a humid hide is an excellent way to provide a humid microclimate without resorting to misting the entire cage. It provide all of the benefits of humidity, without requiring the owner to turn the enclosure into a giant petri dish.

The idea is to take a hide and fill it with dampened and wrung sphagnum moss. Alternately, people are now producing humid hides which are essentially a pottery hide with a small fluid reservoir on top. The pottery absorbs and releases the water over a period of time creating a humid hide without the moss.

http://www.reptile-mania.com/759_472...pg?u=154342280

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I will look into those! I was also debating a mist system but it seems like a lot of work. That and half the time I have great ambient temps and humidity and other days I don't. Florida weather is bipolar

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Is the moss expensive?

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Originally Posted by SCWood

Thank you :) I will try this!

Absolutely. The only reason one snake has gauges now is because he came with them in his tank. She will be furious if I buy more for mine. I use an in fared temp gun when I can and I measure humidity with a gauge that has no backing and she hasn't noticed yet ��

I will look into those! I was also debating a mist system but it seems like a lot of work. That and half the time I have great ambient temps and humidity and other days I don't. Florida weather is bipolar

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Moss is cheap.

Your humidity is probably better than you think.....

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Originally Posted by SCWood

Florida weather is bipolar

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If you're in Florida, humidity should be relatively easy for you.

I don't soak, don't mist, and have small water bowls. Granted they are in tubs, so it's easier to keep humidity levels where they should be, but with very little effort on the humidity front all but one of my snakes produce perfect sheds each time.

Try the humid hide. That'll probably be all you need.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Moss is cheap.

Your humidity is probably better than you think.....

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Probably, I am using cheap gauges

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Originally Posted by 200xth

If you're in Florida, humidity should be relatively easy for you.

I don't soak, don't mist, and have small water bowls. Granted they are in tubs, so it's easier to keep humidity levels where they should be, but with very little effort on the humidity front all but one of my snakes produce perfect sheds each time.

Try the humid hide. That'll probably be all you need.

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I thought so too. It bounces back and forth between 40% and 70% all day every day UNLESS it rains then it's almost 80%! Thanks for the tips :) I will go ahead and try to find moss for next time

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BP humidity is pretty easy. With a sphagnum moss hide, and especially if you use something like cypress mulch for bedding being in Florida I'd imagine that would about cover it. I actually haven't misted in quite a while because my girl keeps overturning her water dish (I didn't know why until I came in one day and saw her curled up under it wearing it like a hat trying to hide... despite her other perfectly adequate hides). I replace the wet bedding but there is still a bump in humidity.

Also, they are far from top of the line, but PetSmart sells these small digital hygrometers that are meant to be mounted on a cage, but really you could just carry one around in your pocket and pop it into an enclosure for a minute then take it out if you wanted to be sneaky about testing humidity.