Maintainance feeding

Will someone please explain how this works for a BP and why it would be done? I think I may have been inadvertanly doing this all along, but I don't know. I have a fear of both underfeeding and over feeding my snake.

From how it was explained to me, that is when the snake is basically fed enough to keep it alive and decent looking. However , I could be wrong, but that is how ot was explained to me.

Why would you use it on a BP - concerned it might grow too large? It basically translates into giving the snake the minimal amt of nutrition is needs to maintain health.

Actually, I wasn't doing it intentionally, I just think that my feeding schedual translates to that, maybe. I didn't want to over feed him as I have heard a lot about obese snakes, and I also heard they live longer if they are fed less than weekly among otherthings.

Once a week for growing, younger BPs; once every 2 weeks for adults. I fed Goblin, my adult male, once a week and he began to look obese. Feed him once every 2, now, and he's great.

The following text was taken from the Husbandry page at www.milehighmorpsh.com ...

"Can you over-feed a Ball Python? Unfortunately there are popular myths that feeding frequent meals or as some people call it "power-feeding" is dangerous to your snake. We are fortunate to have Dr. Roger Klingenberg (co-author of "The Ball Python Manual") as our veterinarian and he has advised us that it nearly impossible to over-feed a juvenile Ball Python. The danger of obesity does not come into play until the snake is an adult and then only with excessive feeding."

Ball pythons are very good at self regulating their own food intake. Appropriately sized food items every 7 - 14 days is fine. More frequent feeding is fine too if they'll eat more often. Learn what works for your own snake and let him/her tell you how much and how often to feed it.

-adam

Ok, but I thought one of the dangers of power feeding was that the snake would mature very fast, shortenng it juvinal stage and hence, its life in the long run.

thats what i thought too?

As far as I know that is the danger of power feeding. Snake grows very very quickly, but it can lead to problems later on. I've seen on some sites (probably that one) that "somebody has determined that is impossible to power feed a young bp". I'm not saying that the vet isn't credible. It's hard to say for sure.

I don't think stuffing a snake to "bursting" is healthy, do you? Personally, I think you can powerfeed a bp, and it's not healthy.

Feeding once a week is fine, however.

In reality, we grossly overfeed our captive snakes; I doubt that they would get to eat even once a month in the wild (could be wrong though.) I think that it's more possible that we can overfeed them, than to underfeed.
I think that even in young, growing snakes, overfeedng could be detrimental. The digestive tract of pythons has developed to digest one big meal at a time, not several smaller ones in a week. I know that also, with overfeeding, gas can build up in the digestive tract, in the spaces between the food items, and cause the snake to bloat. I saw an overfed BCI like that, and it is not pretty.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

The digestive tract of pythons has developed to digest one big meal at a time, not several smaller ones in a week.

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Are you stating fact or opinion here? If this is a fact, please cite the source of this information as it would be useful to everyone on this site.

Thank you in advance for your response.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Schlyne

Personally, I think you can powerfeed a bp, and it's not healthy.

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Personally, I think that with a little more experience with these animals you will realize that ball pythons really are impossible to power feed.

I'm not sure where this misconception comes from, but there is no evidence anywhere to support that ball pythons can be power fed to the point of it damaging their health.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

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Originally Posted by Schlyne

Personally, I think you can powerfeed a bp, and it's not healthy.

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Personally, I think that with a little more experience with these animals you will realize that ball pythons really are impossible to power feed.

I'm not sure where this misconception comes from, but there is no evidence anywhere to support that ball pythons can be power fed to the point of it damaging their health.

-adam

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I bet you my left shoe, I can show you an obese bp.

There is no proof that powerfeeding juveniles shortens the lives of ball pythons. All evidence of detrimental effects on developing young have been on rodents, not ball pythons or any other reptiles. It would take a 30 year project with several ball pythons to prove it, and to date nobody has even officially begun such an experiment let alone completed it.

A BP should be on the fat side entering the breeding season. They gorge themselves in the wild that time of year, eating entire gerbil colonies in a single sitting, so there isn't any harm when they are offered food generously at the equivalent time in their seasonal cycle done in captivity. As long as you're not feeding an adult ball python like that all year round, there's no reason for there to be negative effects on health.

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Originally Posted by Blink

I bet you my left shoe, I can show you an obese bp.

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Diagnosed by a DVM or VMD as obese or obese in your opinion?

I would love to see a written diagnoses of obesity in p. reqius by a qualified veterinarian.

I'm not really sure that I want your left shoe though. Is it a NIKE?

-adam

I am not saying this is a BP, but this is the resuts of obese/powerfeeding snakes. This is not my snake, I foudn the picture.

http://www.petsnakes.co.uk/Under_The...nake_Thumb.jpg

Click that.

DANG !! that is Crazy.

It also looks like it could be really really constipated too.Either that or pregant.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

I am not saying this is a BP, but this is the resuts of obese/powerfeeding snakes. This is not my snake, I foudn the picture.

http://www.petsnakes.co.uk/Under_The...nake_Thumb.jpg

Click that.

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Ball pythons are very different from corn snakes in their eating habits. You can't look at one type of snake and directly or indirectly relate it's behavior or eating habits to another.

-adam

Most pythons you can feed pretty aggressively when they're young & they'll just translate all that food into growth. I once had someone accuse me of powerfeeding a retic - it's just about impossible to overfeed the giants.

When it comes to ball pythons - you can get them up to size in a fairly short amount of time through increased feeding, but some will mature faster than others. We've made male ball pythons "breeding size" in a relatively short time frame - some of them will go ahead to breed, and others may make you wait another season until they mature. The snakes still go at their own rate, regardless of size. Same goes for females - you can get a female up to 1500 grams in 18 months and some will breed, some won't. The ones that won't aren't ready - or as Ralph Davis puts it "they're still just fat girls in the 3rd grade." (I LOVE that quote - awesome analogy).

Adam's not talking out his bum here, folks...it's hard to make a young python obese. It can even be difficult to make an adult ball obese due to their habits of going off-feed during the breeding season. What's important is for a keeper to know that particular snake's "best" condition, and understand when to feed & when to back the animal off. Obese snakes don't reproduce well - I don't care what species they are.

Just my $.02

K

Adam, it's a statement that, while not gathered from a specific text, was something I inferred. I just do not think there's a huge, plentiful food supply for wild BPs; they are the type of animal which eats one big meal and then goes off to digest it slowly. This is how their digestive system has evolved; much different than, say, a ranid frog, which feeds daily in the wild. I do not think a BP who's busy digesting a rare food item in the wild, would be eager to go out in the wild and look for another one until that's absolutely necessary.
However, I should not have even mentioned this at all, since the habits of wild BPs are so far removed from the ones of our captives. Wild BPs are highly, highly skittish and shy animals of course (I have seen a recently imported adult male who actually flailed around trying to get away, and musked me when I picked him up, and I have never seen that in a captive born or bred BP.) So I do not imagine they'd venture out of their burrows much in the wild, unless they were feeling hungry. And I doubt they'd feel hungry if they were in the midst of digesting a big prey item.

Ginevive,

There are several statements that you've made that I have a problem with.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I just do not think there's a huge, plentiful food supply for wild BPs;

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This is not true at all. All of the field studies done in Ghana and Togo indicate that ruralization and farming are causing a huge increase in rodent populations supplying food to ball pythons. Every indication is that ball pythons are thriving due to this increased food supply.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

they are the type of animal which eats one big meal and then goes off to digest it slowly.

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Also not true, ball pythons (like many heavy bodied snakes) are opportunistic feeders that will take down any prey that makes itself available to them wether several small animals or a single large. If a ball python comes across an entire litter of rodents and is hungry, it will eat as many as it needs.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

This is how their digestive system has evolved;

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There is no scientific evidence anywhere to support this statement.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I do not think a BP who's busy digesting a rare food item in the wild, would be eager to go out in the wild and look for another one until that's absolutely necessary.

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Again, this is opinion. There is no way for you or anyone to know what exactly a ball python does in the wild in regards to eating except for the people that are over there observing them.

If you have any scientific data to support your opinions I'd be thrilled to hear it. I am always interested in learning more about the animals that I love!

-adam

Hi Kara! 8) How you doin? :lol:

Thank you .... YOU ROCK!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

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Originally Posted by Blink

I bet you my left shoe, I can show you an obese bp.

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Diagnosed by a DVM or VMD as obese or obese in your opinion?

I would love to see a written diagnoses of obesity in p. reqius by a qualified veterinarian.

I'm not really sure that I want your left shoe though. Is it a NIKE?

-adam

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next time I feed her, I'll show you... you tell me what you think.

No, it's pay less and always save. :oops:

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Originally Posted by Blink

next time I feed her, I'll show you... you tell me what you think.

No, it's pay less and always save. :oops:

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I'm not qualified to diagnose a snake as obese, especially via a picture over the internet.

Just because you "think" your ball pythons looks obese after it takes a large meal does not necessarily mean that it is.

If you think your snakes obese, please take it to a vet.

Anytime you want to send me that Payless shoe, I'm down!

-adam

I never said they were like BP's, but that is a result of an obese snake, and a powerfed snake. I never said they were like BP's, i even said this is not a BP. I was just showing that picture so people would understand what people meant when they said Obese.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

I never said they were like BP's, but that is a result of an obese snake, and a powerfed snake. I never said they were like BP's, i even said this is not a BP. I was just showing that picture so people would understand what people meant when they said Obese.

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I don't think Adam was arguing that with you, just clarifying the point that boids & colubrids don't operate the same way.

That was certainly an obese snake you posted. You'd be amazed at how many snakes in captivity actually are.

K

Oops, I didn't meant to start this argument again. hehehe. I am actually pretty sure I have a friend who seriously over feeds her BP. Of course, I cna't get pics since I lack a camera, grr, but I will discribe what he looks like. He is so bloated looking and has trouble coiling and bending in the usual ways, like in half to turn around in a small space. I have talked to her about this, but she, unlike me, has a bigger fear of him getting too skinny from going off feed, than getting too fat. She doesn't think she is over feeding him, even though he is still barely 3 feet long and almost twice as thick as Kitty, granted, Kitty is a little on the thin side. His tail does kind of look like that corn snake one. I swear, if this isnake isn't obese then there is something else seriously wrong with him

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Currently the oldest snake on record is a ball python that lived in the Philadelphia Zoo for 49 yrs 4 mos.

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http://www.vpi.com/5VPIBreeders/Ball...BallPython.htm

Id be interested to know this bp's feeding habits...
Anyone have any more information on it?

Ooh, me too. It seems that must have been very well cared for so I want to copy whatever they did.

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Ginevive,

There are several statements that you've made that I have a problem with.

Ginevive wrote:
I just do not think there's a huge, plentiful food supply for wild BPs;


This is not true at all. All of the field studies done in Ghana and Togo indicate that ruralization and farming are causing a huge increase in rodent populations supplying food to ball pythons. Every indication is that ball pythons are thriving due to this increased food supply.

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Let's just call this my "brain fart thread." I was going on and on making assumptions. I promise not to do it again! :D

Well , I haven't been involved with snakes long enough yet , to know who is right . But my own baby BP tells me when he is hungry - usually every six days on the money , but this week , only five days - probably because while he usually gets rats , last week he got a small mouse , as he was beginning shed , and I didn't want to stress him .

No need to switch prey items just because your snake is shedding. If a snake will eat while in shed, feeding the animal its typical prey isn't going to stress the snake any more or less.

K