BP Snacks...Any Such Thing?

I've got a ball python( about 2yrs old) and a buddy of mine has a burmeise(sp?) same age. He gives his snake a goldfish once a week< about midway between feeding mice. Is this a good idea? Seems 2 me the snake would be getting used 2 eating or even possibly looking 4 something 2 eat regularly. Just thought I'd ask ya'll, 4 brains are better than 2...

Is his burmese python the same size as your BP? If so, is burmese is severly malnurished or something. He shouldnt feed goldfish.

No Its About 3 1/2 ft. Mines about 2 1/2 . His is Kind of Scrawny though.

OMG! 3 1/2 ft.! Burmese pythons should be around 10-20ft. at 2 years old! WHat is he feeding?! Does he have eat!?

yea that sounds about 5 feet off for a 2 year old burm!

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

OMG! 3 1/2 ft.! Burmese pythons should be around 10-20ft. at 2 years old! WHat is he feeding?! Does he have eat!?

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10 ft, yes. 20 feet is really pushing it. 20 feet is more like a 10 year old
snake.

More on-topic, goldfish are a GREAT way to transmit parasites. Most feeder goldfish these days carry some sort of funk, whether it's fungal, bacterial, or internal parasites. Since Burmese don't eat fish in the wild, adding them to one's diet isn't a wise choice from a husbandry perspective - same goes for ball pythons.

A 2-year-old 5' Burm has obviously been maintenance fed...sometimes folks do this to grow a snake up slowly, and there's nothing wrong with that, but by the same token it's very important to insure the snake's dietary needs are being met. Maintenance feeding large pythons is a good way to hone that animal's feeding response - the keeper is constantly dealing with a hungry snake.

K

oops, I ment 10-12ft.

the burm is 3 1/2ft.

yeah i noticed in petco that the BP and Boas had a fish in its waterdish and so did the ratsnakes and the gardner snakes but maybe thats normal 4 those species

None of those snakes should be eating fish.

Snakes aren't people and they don't need snacks. Attempts to treat snakes like people instead of snakes can only result in incorrect husbandry. Now, I'm not at all one to say that snakes should be kept a particular way, but I don't think there's any logical basis for giving snakes snacks. If you want to give a pet a treat, give it to your dog, not your snake.

i hear ya dude

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Originally Posted by hhw

None of those snakes should be eating fish.

Snakes aren't people and they don't need snacks. Attempts to treat snakes like people instead of snakes can only result in incorrect husbandry. Now, I'm not at all one to say that snakes should be kept a particular way, but I don't think there's any logical basis for giving snakes snacks. If you want to give a pet a treat, give it to your dog, not your snake.

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Just a note i thought i'd add. Alot of different garter snake owners and care sheets reccomend feeding minnows as their sole source of diet.

maybe they were minnows and not goldfish i didnt really take a good look

Garter snakes are suposed to eat fish. Rat snake *can* occasionaly. Pythons and Boas NEVER!

Anyways, i think you need to go to your friends house and check out his husbandry, he's obviously doing something WAY wrong for his snake to be 3 1/2 ft.

thats rediculous. a 2yr old burm is only 3.5 ft? my boa is longer than that and only about 7months old. your friend needs some serious help, and shouldnt have a pet snake since he obviously dont know how to feed it

Yea! That snake should be like 10-12ft.! Thats disgusting how you can malnurish something so much.

crash23, your BP should be bigger than 2 1/2ft. I think your BP should be like atleast 3ft. at 2 years.

good point, rex, who barely eats 1 adult mouse a week is like 30in, but i have no idea how old he is. i hope this is just a troll, cause not feeding a snake is just plain sick let alone not feeding any animal.

I do too. whats a troll?

someone who just makes stuff up to make people mad basically, at least from what i understand, and since they havnt responded, im thinking they are, but i dont really know so we will see what happens

Hey! Before we rush into assumptions, maybe we need to take a step back and think for a second. Everyone isnt a troll, and it is not very nice to label someone before they get a chance to expalin themselves. The burm isnt even his snake. You havent heard about his setup, if the snake is exactly 2 years old, if its a rescue, what he feeds, how often he feeds, and a whole host of other things. He came here with a valid ( allbeit an interesting ) question, and the two of you have proceded to rip him apart. He hasnt fed his snake goldfish yet. As for not responding yet, not all of us are able to check the site more than once a day. Before you jump to conclusions, how bout giving the guy a chance to respond.

This site is made up of individuals that have come together to form a community. This community is represented by our members, and it doesn't look good on the rest of us when a few are continuously slaming eachother on how they take care of their own animals. The job of a responsible keeper is to figure out what works for them ( within the constraints of not being cruel to the animal ), and make sure the animal stays healthy. I've seen a trend in our community lately where we are too quick to jump all over someone and take the "No You're Wrong and I'm Right" stance. My grandmother used to say "Thats why they make blue suits and brown suits". As long as the animal is healthy, whats the problem. There's more than one way to do everything in this world and I, for one, am always on the lookout for new ideas and suggestions in this hobby.

Thank you, Carson, for some wise words. There are a lot of different ways to keep animals, and some are clearly better for the animals' well-being than others, but sometimes the line isn't so clear. As you mention, the snake might have been a rescue, or the owner may have been misled into believing that alternating weekly feedings of mice and fish was a good idea. The visitor was asking whether it's a good idea for a ball python, and as Kara clearly states, it's not. This site is here for education of reptile owners and interacting as a community, and attacking someone who has a question is not a good way to do either of those.

Rex started it.

Thats right, blame it on the snake :P

Rex is the user!

hey now, dont go blaming me for all this

you are the one who said he was a troll.

i didnt say he was, i suggested it

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

Garter snakes are never suposed to eat fish. Rat snake *can* occasionaly. Pythons and Boas NEVER!

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You are infact completely incorrect. In the wild most garter snakes and ribbon snakes live on an amphibious diet...but in captivity a reccomended switch for the snake is over to a diet consisting of fish/worms. Being that fish dont give the average species its complete nutritional requirements. Contrary to that though, there are infact a few aquatic species of garter snakes that sole diet is comprised of fish/leeches and other aquatic native creatures.

here's a qoute directly from a site all about garter snakes:
"Feeding
Trying to feed a captive snake a completely wild diet may be difficult--if not illegal or annoying to your local animal welfare groups. The amphibians typical of wild diets may be replaced by fish and earthworms which, with some vitamin supplementation, will provide a nutritionally balanced diet.

Harvesting earthworms is relatively easy, but care must be taken to collect them from areas free from pesticides and herbicides. The worms should be rinsed clean before being offered to the garter. To prevent the worms from becoming coated with loose substrate, place them in a small shallow bowl or jar lid.

Whole fish rather than slices of fillets are best. They are more nutritious and are more easily recognized as being food by the garter. Fresh fish is best, but at times it may become necessary to feed frozen fish. Frozen fish must be supplemented with B1 (thiamin) as freezing causes the development of thiaminase, an enzyme which destroys thiamin. Sand eels and Lance fish may also be offered (placed in shallow bowls of water); they will often encourage a reluctant eater.

A diet exclusively comprised of fish is not balanced. Other food items need to be fed on a regular basis. Leeches are relished by the aquatic garters, while terrestrial species enjoy slugs. Be careful where you collect these prey, especially leeches collected in agricultural areas where irrigation and other run off may flow into and contaminate lakes, ponds, rivers and streams. Wax worms and, for young snakes, white worms (grubs) can be found commercially in the pet trade and may be used to supplement captive garter diets."

Source: Right from anapsid's good old care sheets
http://www.anapsid.org/gartcare.html

Well, you said garter snakes that are aquatic eat fish, those are the ones I am talking about. Thats pretty rude to tell someone they're compoletely incorrect, when you stated that I was correct! im no longer replying to this thread. When threads get over 20 post, I stop replying. Simply for the fact I don't want to read all the post, when enough on the subject has already been said.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

Well, you said garter snakes that are aquatic eat fish, those are the ones I am talking about. Thats pretty rude to tell someone they're compoletely incorrect, when you stated that I was correct! im no longer replying to this thread. When threads get over 20 post, I stop replying. Simply for the fact I don't want to read all the post, when enough on the subject has already been said.

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you were wrong
anapsid(and almost every other garter caresheet) basically flat out says that the best diet for ANY SPECIES of captive garter snake is made up of fish(generally minnows) and worms(whether they be earthworms, or wax worms)

For the record, I wasn't being rude, what i said was true - you were infact incorrect - I'm just basically trying to correct the mis-information you posted earlier. Telling someone that garter snakes should never eat fish, when infact its generally reccomended isn't exactly a great thing to do. If you can find ANYTHING on the net that says to not feed a garter fish, please feel free to post it and show me. Because most caresheets reccomend it, and i've housed and know alot of people that have cared for garters and have always done a mix of minnows and worms for their diet.

Not to mention feeding garters a sole rodent diet can lead to liver problems and other health related risks.

"A garter snake on a steady diet of mice is at risk of fatty liver disease and a much shorter lifespan. Mice are a rich, fatty food that should be only an occasional treat. Goldfish is the usual diet for these animals, but even this is not ideal as goldfish contain substances that can cause vitamin deficiency if fed long-term. A much better garter snake diet consists mostly of minnows (buy them in the bait ship), earthworms and the occasional mouse or rat pup."

as quoted from:
http://reptile.lifetips.com/Cat.asp__Q__id__E__7824

OMG! YOUR SO CONFUSED! I said garters are suposed to eat fish! And now yur saying i was wrong because I said they weren't suposed to! here is what i said:

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Garter snakes are suposed to eat fish. Rat snake *can* occasionaly. Pythons and Boas NEVER!

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Originally Posted by Jase

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Originally Posted by hhw

None of those snakes should be eating fish.

Snakes aren't people and they don't need snacks. Attempts to treat snakes like people instead of snakes can only result in incorrect husbandry. Now, I'm not at all one to say that snakes should be kept a particular way, but I don't think there's any logical basis for giving snakes snacks. If you want to give a pet a treat, give it to your dog, not your snake.

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Just a note i thought i'd add. a lot of different garter snake owners and care sheets reccomend feeding minnows as their sole source of diet.

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Sorry, I was referring to the pythons, boas, and ratsnakes. "gardners" just didn't register with me at the time :P

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Originally Posted by hhw

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Originally Posted by Jase

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Originally Posted by hhw

None of those snakes should be eating fish.

Snakes aren't people and they don't need snacks. Attempts to treat snakes like people instead of snakes can only result in incorrect husbandry. Now, I'm not at all one to say that snakes should be kept a particular way, but I don't think there's any logical basis for giving snakes snacks. If you want to give a pet a treat, give it to your dog, not your snake.

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Just a note i thought i'd add. a lot of different garter snake owners and care sheets reccomend feeding minnows as their sole source of diet.

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Sorry, I was referring to the pythons, boas, and ratsnakes. "gardners" just didn't register with me at the time :P

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haha it happens

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

OMG! YOUR SO CONFUSED! I said garters are suposed to eat fish! And now yur saying i was wrong because I said they weren't suposed to! here is what i said:

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Garter snakes are suposed to eat fish. Rat snake *can* occasionaly. Pythons and Boas NEVER!

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wierd when i originally quoted your post, it said they should never eat fish....

i dunno, whatever
the facts are posted, if thats what your originally said, awesome
but i doubt i would have started posting facts and quoting sites unless i read that it said never feed them fish

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Originally Posted by BallPythonBabe448

Rex started it.

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I dont care who started it. I asked you guys to lay off, and you didnt. I'm now ending it.