Mom thinks frozen rats/mice in a fridge is unsanitary, how to convince her it isn't?

So apparently my mother is a huge germophobic, and she thinks that frozen feeders are full of germs and disgusting particles that will infect the food. She also can't stand the sight of a dead mice, so theres that.

You are fighting a losing battle. Get a small dorm room freezer to keep your feeders. I keep my feeders in a freezer in my reptile building. True you may not have room for a full freezer. However I could not imagine having feeder rats and mice in with my food. I really don't see how you can convince her. However I wish you the best.

Yeah, Im kinda the same way.. I had to buy another freezer. lol

Small freezer is probably the way to go. I love how people who eat meat have no problem with a bloody, butchered carcass that has been handled by god knows how many people, but when it comes to a whole mouse they freak out.

I wouldn't want frozen mice or rats next to my steak either whether it's sanitary or not. Gross... Listen to everyone else and get a small fridge on craig'slist.

DV, please don't compare these two things because they're COMPLETELY different. You're talking about professionally butchered meat that has health inspections to rodent that pee and crap on themselves.

Mine was exactly the same way. I picked up a freezer off of Craigslist for $50. Trust me, you most likely won't change her mind. Honestly, while I don't have a problem with dead mice near my food (neither does my dad, he keeps food in the freezer with the rodents), it does look kind of gross and out of place to have weird furry things in there.

I figure the mice are in bags, the meat in my freezer is wrapped, and is a whole mouse really different from the whole fish that I have in there? I also store the mice on the lower shelves, and the meat/frozen dinners/frozen fruit on the upper shelves. And if I have a houseguest who's being a pest, I can offer them a mousecicle if they want food.

Frozen Rats don't have much of a standard compared to most food sold for human consumption, even my wild venison is inspected and deemed safe by the butcher. It isn't uncommon to find feeder rats with parasites, feces or urine on them, and who knows what bacteria, freezing probably kills most or all of it, but there is still a possibility from getting cross comtamination, and then there is the sight of rats in your freezer. I keep mine in small plastic bags wrapped in small paper bags with the freeze-on date, then wrapped up in a big paper bag along with my other frozen pet food in a basket inside my chest freezer with bulk food, opened or small food items are in the kitchen freezer.

None of us are squeamish, and I bought the house, so there is that too. Back when I lived at my folk's house, I kept them in a small freezer, would do the same if anyone had a problem with it, there really is no way to get the majority of people to be OK with keeping rats with food. Can pick a small freezer or fridge/freezer combo for under $200 new, costs around $1 a month to power, and as a side benefit, mom will never look in it, so perfect place to keep your beer;)

Yeah, I keep my f/t in a freezer in the garage. I just bought a new one that was a little bigger then my first. My wife said to me keep on one side, I want to store food in there. I was shocked, after twenty years she never wanted to mix. The mice come vacuum packed, I wipe off the packages before I double bag them in garbage bags. Then keep them on one side. Yeah it's a little strange, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Everything is frozen and wrapped, and everything in there needs to be cooked anyway. P.s we keep the ice cream in the house freezer.

We just got a new fridge so my MIL has me keep feeders in the old fridge in the garage. It's not a sanitation issue, it's more on the lines of we have company a lot. Maybe she can designate a certain portion of the freezer for your feeders that is relatively far away from the food, i.e a shelf or drawer (that's what I do)

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Hmm, I keep mine in baggies inside a sealed opaque tupperware container. Looks perfectly innocuous and doesn't come into contact with any food. I tend to forget they're there until I need them.

So maybe find a way to store them that won't be a constant reminder that they're in there? Out of sight, out of mind. I feel like buying and powering a whole separate freezer is sort of impractical unless you're feeding several animals.

I agree with what many others have already said. Invest in a small freezer. Problem solved.

If you are going to feed one snake, it does not make any sense what so ever to by a whole separate freezer when you will most likely only use it for maybe 2 -4 rats. It's a waste of space, power used, and money. If you were feeding a whole bunch of snakes. Then I can understand. I have a small mini fridge style freezer that houses all my F/T, but I also have a bunch of snakes and all my rodents do not fit in our food freezer. When I started out with a corn snake, A small box that was only 2" in all directions for 4 fuzzy mice would stay with our food freezer. We never got sick. I used the freezer we stored our food in until I got up to 6 snakes and the freezer was no longer big enough. That was years ago now. There is absolutely no reason to buy a different freezer for such a tiny box.

If you seal the rats properly, there should be no issue. Put it in a freezer ziploc bag, then in a small tupperware container. Put that in a brown paper bag so no one ca see it. Either that or start buying freshly killed. You can also buy live and euthanize them yourself, that way there is no need for a freezer. I wouldn't go out and buy a whole freezer just to store one rat. It will not infect your food.

I keep my frozen feeders in my freezer. The basement freezer is full so the freezer section of my fridge is where i have to keepthem. They are double bagged in heavy plastic bags then put in to white plastic bags. Since you can't see them through the plastic, anyone going into my freezer can't see them.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

I wouldn't want frozen mice or rats next to my steak either whether it's sanitary or not. Gross... Listen to everyone else and get a small fridge on craig'slist.

DV, please don't compare these two things because they're COMPLETELY different. You're talking about professionally butchered meat that has health inspections to rodent that pee and crap on themselves.

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No, those two scenarios are entirely comparable. Both items carry the risk for disease if handled improperly. You'll get sick if you thaw your hamburger improperly and let it drip onto raw vegetables, or undercook it, just like you'll probably get sick if you leave loose mice floating around your freezer touching your food items. It's like comparing acid and liquid nitrogen; yes those two substances are completely different, but you're silly if you feel safe handling one and not the other because they have comparable safety protocol.

Don't pretend that meat for human consumption is butchered and handled in such a way that it prevents urine and/or fecal matter from ending up in the final product. I realize that much of that is unavoidable, but if unsanitary butchering and packaging practices weren't common the industry wouldn't have limits for the maximum amount of fecal matter and rodent droppings present in the final product. Basically, I find it hilarious for someone to be okay with up to eight rodent droppings in a pack of hot dogs but none inside an actual mouse. Those inspections you're talking about aren't to keep the meat clean, they're to keep it from getting so bad people start getting sick and suing.

It's the exact same argument I have with people who are afraid of getting salmonella from a turtle but not from handling raw chicken or unwashed vegetables. If you trust your safety protocol for one item (in this case hand-washing) you should trust it for others.

Well you know what ? Your mother is right. You can try all you want to justify keeping snake food mixed with human food it just isn't sanitary period. If you want to be a reptile keeper then be responsible all the way. Buy a freezer for your animal food! Why try and convince someone who is totally adamant about you keeping mice and rats next to her frozen foods. Come on, do the right thing and get your own. You will feel more responsible when you buy your own anyway. :salute:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

You can try all you want to justify keeping snake food mixed with human food it just isn't sanitary period.

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Do explain to me how having properly sealed (and I do mean properly, not tossed in a ziploc bag) mice in your freezer is unsanitary when having chicken thawing in the same space as your vegetables is not (unless of course you all use restaurant-level protocol for thawing and holding meat)?

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Originally Posted by Snake Judy

Hmm, I keep mine in baggies inside a sealed opaque tupperware container. Looks perfectly innocuous and doesn't come into contact with any food. I tend to forget they're there until I need them.

So maybe find a way to store them that won't be a constant reminder that they're in there? Out of sight, out of mind. I feel like buying and powering a whole separate freezer is sort of impractical unless you're feeding several animals.

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Mine is similar. They come in packages that I open and separate into portioned baggies. I clean them up and then I double bag in grocery bags and shove them in the top shelf of the door . inconspicuous and is a spot nobody ever used anyway. Everybody is happy. If I had to keep in the house, Jen wouldn't argue. For a month I did when the garage fridge wasn't working. She designated their spot in the house fridge and made sure that was where they stayed. I guess not everyone understands. It's not like they can contaminate anything because they're FROZEN and my house has a lot of appliances so adding another for f/t rats seems impractical for space and power

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Well you know what ? Your mother is right. You can try all you want to justify keeping snake food mixed with human food it just isn't sanitary period. If you want to be a reptile keeper then be responsible all the way. Buy a freezer for your animal food! Why try and convince someone who is totally adamant about you keeping mice and rats next to her frozen foods. Come on, do the right thing and get your own. You will feel more responsible when you buy your own anyway. :salute:

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How is it unsanitary?? It's not like people keep piles of loose, unwrapped meat and rats stacked up in their freezer. Honestly, a tiny bit of common sense and it's no big deal. It's one thing if OP's mom is stuck on the issue, but it's weird to back her up and say it's irresponsible reptile keeping.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Do explain to me how having properly sealed (and I do mean properly, not tossed in a ziploc bag) mice in your freezer is unsanitary when having chicken thawing in the same space as your vegetables is not (unless of course you all use restaurant-level protocol for thawing and holding meat)?

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Lora, I am not going to try to persuade you to change your view on what I see as my view. I am simply expressing how I feel and this is me. You have your view on this topic and that's fine. It is disrespectful to a owner of a refrigerator and freezer to expect them to house your reptile foods alongside their foods for human consumption, period . That is how I feel about it. I am responsible to keep all my reptile supplies including reptile foods in a area designated for reptiles and that doesn't include my moms freezer. For me, that is the end of the debate. :salute::salute::salute:

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Originally Posted by Snake Judy

How is it unsanitary?? It's not like people keep piles of loose, unwrapped meat and rats stacked up in their freezer. Honestly, a tiny bit of common sense and it's no big deal. It's one thing if OP's mom is stuck on the issue, but it's weird to back her up and say it's irresponsible reptile keeping.

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Its not only unsanitary its irresponsible! You can try and justify it all you want. That is all I am going to say about it. MY VIEWS ARE JUST THAT, MINE. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Lora, I am not going to try to persuade you to change your view on what I see as my view. I am simply expressing how I feel and this is me. You have your view on this topic and that's fine. It is disrespectful to a owner of a refrigerator and freezer to expect them to house your reptile foods alongside their foods for human consumption, period . That is how I feel about it. I am responsible to keep all my reptile supplies including reptile foods in a area designated for reptiles and that doesn't include my moms freezer. For me, that is the end of the debate. :salute::salute::salute:

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I'm not trying to make you keep your rats next to your food, nor am I trying to get the OP to do so (if you'll read my original post you'll notice I told her getting a mini-fridge was the way to go). I would never try to force someone who didn't want to do so to do it, nor would I recommend it when someone like yourself is still using their parents' freezers.

However, you have just called my entirely safe practices unsanitary and irresponsible, and for that reason you need to either retract the statement that it is unsanitary and admit that this is just your opinion (which I am okay with) or provide evidence that it is unsanitary even when done properly (which you haven't done).

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Its not only unsanitary its irresponsible! You can try and justify it all you want. That is all I am going to say about it. MY VIEWS ARE JUST THAT, MINE. :gj:

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Your views, Albert, are as of yet completely lacking evidence.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Its not only unsanitary its irresponsible! You can try and justify it all you want. That is all I am going to say about it. MY VIEWS ARE JUST THAT, MINE. :gj:

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Sure, you can think it's an unsavory idea. But "unsanitary" implies that there is a risk of other food in the freezer becoming somehow contaminated. You're saying it's a risk to health. That's not really something a person can have an opinion about. Either it's unsanitary or it isn't, and there is no evidence to say that it is.

In fact, I suspect that rats from a responsible, clean breeder run much less risk of carrying anything capable of causing a food-borne illness than chicken or beef from a large commercial operation.

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Originally Posted by Snake Judy

In fact, I suspect that rats from a responsible, clean breeder run much less risk of carrying anything capable of causing a food-borne illness than chicken or beef from a large commercial operation.

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At the very least you should be less likely to contract parasites lol. They should be freezing them solid for a minimum of 90 days to kill potential parasites (which will incidentally kill a lot of bacteria too; not all, but a lot) this is in line with people I know who hunt/freeze their own meat.
If you're dealing with pinkie mice for colubrids, which make up the entirety of my freezer-mouse collection due to the fact that my BP will only take live, you actually have no poo as their first meal hasn't even had the opportunity to be digested yet.

Sanitary or not, Mom's fridge, mom's rules. Be glad she even lets you have snakes in her house, many do not. Keep her happy and buy a used chest freezer off of CL.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Sanitary or not, Mom's fridge, mom's rules. Be glad she even lets you have snakes in her house, many do not. Keep her happy and buy a used chest freezer off of CL.

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+1

You can show your Mom a scientific journal loaded with studies showing that it is safe and sanitary to store frozen rats next to human food. It would make NO difference! Her mind is made up already on her "cleanliness list". You are fighting a losing battle. Just drop it, and respect her views and rules!

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Originally Posted by Reinz

+1

You can show your Mom a scientific journal loaded with studies showing that it is safe and sanitary to store frozen rats next to human food. It would make NO difference! Her mind is made up already on her "cleanliness list". You are fighting a losing battle. Just drop it, and respect her views and rules!

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Now I want pizza!!!

I keep my mice in the freezer near the ice cream and the peas. My mother was a little bothered at first, but as long as she knew which bag to avoid, she didn't have as many problems(it's a bit jarring to reach for the fish and pull out a pack of dead mice.) I keep them sealed in the ziplock bags, and I put a blue plastic bag over top, so it's clearly separated from the people food and you can't see through it. Out of sight, out of mind.

If your mother's concern is "eww dead rat near my double fudge," you can try this method. As long as she doesn't have to look at it, she may grow to accept that it's there. If it's "parasites and poo," you might try to remind her that your rodent is quite frozen and its parasites are dead. Point out that frozen meat is often thought to be cleaner than freshly-killed, raw meat. If she's adamant that your mice and rats are allowed absolutely nowhere near that freezer, I don't think persuading her to see the sense is going to work. It's possible she is reacting out of fear, in which case you may want to sit down and have a talk about why mice are scary and what it means for her that you have a snake. One compromise is hiding your feeders in a cardboard box, and that box has its own designated shelf. You could even label it something silly, like "Calcified Pickled Squid Beaks"

If all else fails, you may have to swallow your pride and get the craigslist freezer.

I have a small freezer for my f/t rats, but it's also good I think to have 2 freezers simply for "back-up" purposes for if and when one of them dies.

I keep mine in a zip lock bag inside a tupperware container... I have to you I specific mug to defrost them as per the wife... Although I do have a laugh when someone comes round and makes themselves a cuppa using that mug...

Only having one snake 2 freezers just isn't practical for me. Double bagged and In a Tupperware container has been working just fine.

Realistically there is no problems with it, you could keep your rodents inside a ziplock bag inside of another bag inside of a box, and I did it that way for years, but really getting your own freezer is the way to go. The only problem is that my rodent freezer became the 'overflow' freezer and I have to go digging through everyone elses ice cream and popsicles and TV dinners just to feed my snakes. I wish they would keep their unhealthy people food away from my snake food.... :O:O:O