utterly confused newbie needs help

On April 12, we purchased a pastel BP at a club show. It was one of those spontaneous things. I've read everything I can lay hands on and now we're stumped.


1. How long have you had your ball python?

Just over one week.




2. How old (or how big) is your snake?


- He's between 2 & 3 years old. 3' long and 720g.


3. Does it eat on a regular schedule?

- The prior owner said he was fed about every other week.


4. How long since its last meal?

- Last meal was on March 30.


5. What type/size prey is being offered?

- Small rat, no larger than the snake's diameter.


6. How often do you offer food?


- We tried about 4 days after getting him home and settled. No luck.


7. What type and size of enclosure does it live in?


- 24" x 13" x 15" plastic tote will holes drilled around the sides for ventilation. The top has those clamp-on catches.


8. What are you using as substrate? If it has depth, how deep is it?


- A layer of newspaper covered with about 1" of aspen shred.


9. What type of heating do you use?


- Heating tape (not certain that that's what it's called).


10. Do you use a thermostat to control temperatures?


- Yes.


11. What do you use to measure/monitor temperatures?


- A digital thermometer with a probe.


12. What are the surface and ambient temperatures in the enclosure?


- Under his hide, it's about 91°F; ambient temp is closer to 75°F - 80°F.


13. What is the average humidity level?


- 80% - 100% (the sides of the enclosure have condensation.


14. How many and what type of hides does the snake have?


- 2 hides. 1 is plain black plastic and the other is rough and looks like natural rock but is some sort of heavy plastic.


15. Is water readily available at all times?


- Yes.


16. Does the snake live alone or does it share the enclosure with anything else?


- Alone


17. How often and for how long is the snake typically handled?


- Not too often since we just got him. Perhaps every 3rd day.


18. Does the snake have any medical history (old injuries or illnesses)?


- Not that we're aware of. Just after changing his environment to the shred and the new hide, he shed completely in 2 large, gorgeous pieces.


19. Do you have any other reptiles? Have you brought in any new reptiles recently?


- No and no.


20. Is there anything specific or unique about your situation that we should be aware of?

- Since it's been 2 days since his shed, and 3 weeks since he last ate, we thought we'd once again try to feed him. He strikes at the rat, but isn't coiling or eating it. I really don't want a pet rat! He bit me during the first attempt at feeding, which I now attribute to poor eyesight due to the impending shed. Also, I removed the hide before dangling the live rat (the previous owner only fed live, and I'd love some straightforward advice about switching to frozen/thawed, and yes I've read the forums) so the rat wouldn't just hide in the hide! Now Haku (the snake) is puffing up and hissing at me when I look in on him and he's just coiled on one side of the enclosure while the rat has a grooming session on the other.

I can't keep buying rats and releasing them into the wild. LOL I'm concerned that our guy isn't eating because I'm doing something wrong. His shed was gorgeous, he's gorgeous, but I was told he can be a bit on the shy side. I'd like to have a good relationship with him and I certainly don't want him to go hungry.

Sorry this is so long! I've read forums and websites until my eyes are crossed and I'm just stumped as to what to do. Do I remove the rat yet again? Wait a day? Kill the rat and let it sit there in the enclosure for a couple of hours? Kill the rat and freeze it? Beg? Sacrifice a goat?

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Originally Posted by psiam

Also, I removed the hide before dangling the live rat

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Why are you doing either of those?

You don't need to remove the hide, and you don't need to dangle a live rat in front of your snake.

I'd put everything back, leave him for a week, then try another live feeding, but this time don't take stuff out or rearrange anything, and definitely don't dangle the live food in front of your snake. Just put the rodent in the enclosure. Your snake knows what to do if he's hungry and comfortable.

Hi, :)

I'd definitely remove the rat if the snake isn't interested.

Keep it till next week if you want or kill it and freeze it if you don't. Do not release it into the wild - that is probably illegal and unfair if it isn't.

I'd stop all handling at the moment and leave the snake completely alone ( aside from cage maintenance ) for a week to settle in to the new surroundings. At his size a few skipped meals shouldn't do him any harm but a picture to judge his body condition could help us be sure.

Did you ask how the previous owner fed him? Sometimes the steps beforehand can be important too.

And :welcome: to the forum. :gj:

Its a ball python and they are notorius for going off fed randomly and for long periods.... when we bought our enchi back at the end of march we were told he was fed live med rats and was last fed the week before.... we got him home let him get settled... didnt eat till this past friday night, as long as you know your husbendry is correct, there are no mites or signs of infection and he isnt loosing alot of weight he could and most likly is on a hunger strike, also you can try a diff colored rat if your offereing white ones or vice versa... they can also be picky like that sometimes

Did you ask the previous owner if he was eating live or frozen/prekilled? May sound stupid, but if he has fed on frozen his whole life, a live rat might scare him.(Like I said sounds stupid, but ball python are very timid and shy, they can actually become traumatized into not eating live if they are attacked by their rat). aside from that as stated ball python can and will go off of food randomly, or because of stress from a new enclosure or new smells. they can also go off of food for a LONG time. I've personally seen a perfectly healthy bp go off food for 11 months, and then randomly start eating like a champ again. Also as stated, live rats can just be dropped in and watched to make sure there's no damage to the snake, if you want to dangle food by hands or tongs I would suggest frozen or prekilled.

I would personally bump humidity down a bit as well. 40 to 60 is good for them, prolonged exposure to too much or too little can cause problems like respitory infections (low) and scale rott (high). A lot of Condensation generally indicates humidity is a tad high.

I don't use tape or under tank heaters, but it's recommended that if you do, you hook it up to a thermostat to prevent overheating.

Congrats on the pickup btw :) got any pics yet?

Take the snake out while he is comfortable in his hide and put him in a feeder tank with the rat. Don't hold him and feed him directly after. I wouldn't have high hopes for feed during blue eye or later faze of shed.

Use the separate feeding tank so you don't get bit next time you go to grab your pet python.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bumblebeeball

Take the snake out while he is comfortable in his hide and put him in a feeder tank with the rat. Don't hold him and feed him directly after. I wouldn't have high hopes for feed during blue eye or later faze of shed.

Use the separate feeding tank so you don't get bit next time you go to grab your pet python.

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This is a myth in regards to BPs. Removing them from their setup IMO is just more likely to make them not eat. And the other bit about cage aggression is not a thing for them maaaaaybe if you only open the tank to feed and never handle it might happen...

Releasing a captive bred mouse or rat into the wild is just as cruel and illegal as releasing a cat or dog into the wild. If you've already done that, the ones you've released will probably just starve to death (same as any other domesticated animal). Please don't do that.

Either kill or keep the feeders until the following week before offering them to your snake again. Many snakes go off food around sheds, and I have some that are too keyed up to eat right after a shed either. Now isn't the time to worry about him not eating. Don't put him in a separate tank or remove the hide, just feed him in his enclosure. He'll probably resume eating in a couple weeks.
These snakes can go off food for months; it's no big deal when they do it for a couple weeks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bumblebeeball

Use the separate feeding tank so you don't get bit next time you go to grab your pet python.

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Here's a good thread on this subject for you to browse though: The Age Old Question. It starts to become very informative and thought-provoking around the post I directly linked to, but the entire thread is pretty good.

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

This is a myth in regards to BPs. Removing them from their setup IMO is just more likely to make them not eat. And the other bit about cage aggression is not a thing for them maaaaaybe if you only open the tank to feed and never handle it might happen...

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Agreed, 10 years and counting feeding in the snakes enclosure, frequent handler and never bit or struck at.

I removed the hide because last time, the rat went into the hide and, well, hid!

I dangled the rat because that was the feeding method used by the breeder. It would certainly be less traumatic for all involved to just dump the rodent into the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi, :)

I'd definitely remove the rat if the snake isn't interested.

Keep it till next week if you want or kill it and freeze it if you don't. Do not release it into the wild - that is probably illegal and unfair if it isn't.

I'd stop all handling at the moment and leave the snake completely alone ( aside from cage maintenance ) for a week to settle in to the new surroundings. At his size a few skipped meals shouldn't do him any harm but a picture to judge his body condition could help us be sure.

Did you ask how the previous owner fed him? Sometimes the steps beforehand can be important too.

And :welcome: to the forum. :gj:

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I removed the rat to a separate enclosure and gave it food, water, and a place to hide out. They're stinky little buggers.

Since I do NOT want a pet rat, I've thought about the kill/freeze bit. I'll keep in mind that it shouldn't be released. It seemed like the thing to do at the time, but like I said, we're new to this. The previous owner dangled live small rats in front of the snake, so that's why I tried that method. Communication with the prior owner has been spotty at best.

Thanks for the welcome! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magicmed

Did you ask the previous owner if he was eating live or frozen/prekilled? May sound stupid, but if he has fed on frozen his whole life, a live rat might scare him.(Like I said sounds stupid, but ball python are very timid and shy, they can actually become traumatized into not eating live if they are attacked by their rat). aside from that as stated ball python can and will go off of food randomly, or because of stress from a new enclosure or new smells. they can also go off of food for a LONG time. I've personally seen a perfectly healthy bp go off food for 11 months, and then randomly start eating like a champ again. Also as stated, live rats can just be dropped in and watched to make sure there's no damage to the snake, if you want to dangle food by hands or tongs I would suggest frozen or prekilled.

I would personally bump humidity down a bit as well. 40 to 60 is good for them, prolonged exposure to too much or too little can cause problems like respitory infections (low) and scale rott (high). A lot of Condensation generally indicates humidity is a tad high.

I don't use tape or under tank heaters, but it's recommended that if you do, you hook it up to a thermostat to prevent overheating.

Congrats on the pickup btw :) got any pics yet?

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The previous owner used live rats. I'd love to go the frozen route as hearing the rodent scream in terror isn't really my thing.

Not sure how to lower the humidity unless I drill some holes in the top of the enclosure. That could work. Also, I'll pick up an actual thermostat for the heat tape rather than relying on the dimmer control and a thermometer. Thanks for the suggestions!

I'll have to check out the FAQ for photo sharing. I've got a picture of him on my profile page.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by psiam

I removed the hide because last time, the rat went into the hide and, well, hid!

I dangled the rat because that was the feeding method used by the breeder. It would certainly be less traumatic for all involved to just dump the rodent into the enclosure.

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Gotcha.

When in doubt, keep it simple. The fewer things going on, the better. Open enclosure, place prey in enclosure, let snake do everything else. Even if the prey hides, if the snake is hungry he will find it.

If it's 15 to 30 mins later, and nothing is happening, they usually are not going to eat. There's exceptions, but normally 15min to 30min is enough time for the snake to decide he's eating or not. At that point, take the food out and try again next scheduled feeding.

Thank you for the link regarding feeding in the snake's habitat. Indeed, Hatfield and McCoy arguments. I'll stick with feeding him where he lives . . . if he ever decides to eat. :D

Incidentally, after the hissing bout we let him rest for about an hour then I took him out of his enclosure and handed him off to my hubby. Haku curled up inside hubby's hoodie at the waist and stayed there for an hour, just as happy (and warm) as could be. No sign of aggression or fear. We decided to put him back in his home when he decided that he wanted to investigate the back cushions of the sofa. The last thing I need is for the snake to go up into the sofa's inner structure.

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Originally Posted by psiam

We decided to put him back in his home when he decided that he wanted to investigate the back cushions of the sofa. The last thing I need is for the snake to go up into the sofa's inner structure.

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Lol sometimes they get to exploring and it's all you can do to keep them out of trouble. Mine has tried a few times to get inside the couch...

As for feeding, I know keeping feeders if you didn't intend to is a pain in the butt. I ended up with a cage, food, bedding, etc when mine decided to not eat. But I just don't handle the feeder and hand onto it until the next feed time. They do get stinky after awhile; I just decided that it might be part of having a girl who only wanted to take live for a little while. Kind of a pain but eh. It's for my scaly baby :snake:

This is typical BP behavior. BPs are widely known as variable feeders. Even those with the best feeding response sometimes refuse a meal. Nothing to worry or stress about, its part of the BP game. Just ensure all husbandry points are on par and let him rest without constantly offering food. If all husbandry specs are on, he will eat when he is ready. Usually an extra week without offering foods builds their desire to hunt, and will go right back on next time you offer a rat.

Its definitely not the best scenario to release a rat into the wild, but don't beat yourself up about it. At my university we routinely have rats and mice that escape from the animal facility. I doubt that in spring that a rat would starve to death in the wild, they are the most opportunistic feeders on the planet. Likely would just become a meal for something else.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

This is typical BP behavior. BPs are widely known as variable feeders. Even those with the best feeding response sometimes refuse a meal. Nothing to worry or stress about, its part of the BP game. Just ensure all husbandry points are on par and let him rest without constantly offering food. If all husbandry specs are on, he will eat when he is ready. Usually an extra week without offering foods builds their desire to hunt, and will go right back on next time you offer a rat.

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We failed on the 2nd attempt as well. It's been a month since he last ate. Perhaps a mouse would be better?

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Its definitely not the best scenario to release a rat into the wild, but don't beat yourself up about it. At my university we routinely have rats and mice that escape from the animal facility. I doubt that in spring that a rat would starve to death in the wild, they are the most opportunistic feeders on the planet. Likely would just become a meal for something else.

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It was released into a huge cemetery where I'm sure it will find plenty to eat and drink . . . or wind up as someone's dinner. Although we live in a city, our proximity to this cemetery means that raccoons and possums are frequent visitors in our yard. Cycle of life and all that.

You will get all kinds of opinions on here about switching food sources during a hunger strike. A month isn't necessarily a long time for a BP to be off of feed. Ive seen adults go 1 year plus without food, although that isn't ideal at all. I would say that if your snake doesn't eat within another month you should start trying other food sources. The only issue is that some BPs, not all, tend to get rather attached to a new and interesting food source, and 'might' not want to go back to rats once they begin feeding again. So just beware of this. African soft fur rats are a favorite of BPs and can induce a feeding response in some picky eaters. Reptile shops usually carry some of ASFs as feeders just for this purpose. You can also try mice, gerbils and even hamsters.

Just make sure that whatever you choose to switch to, that you have a sustainable supply of in your area in case your snake chooses to only feed on that item. Some people are intently against switching food sources, but in my opinion I would rather be a bit bothered to find an alternate food source, than to watch my snake suffer from hunger.

And yes, cycle of life. Its a rat, don't worry about it.

I can't find a reptile shop anywhere in our vicinity. Guess I'll just keep searching. I've got contact info for a local herp society, so perhaps that's the place to start.

Thank you for the information about feeding changes. The seller told me that Haku was used to eating small rats, which is why we tried that. I'm not even sure how to tell when he's hungry! Yup, utter newbie.