Frozen thawed/

Can they be a little frozen in the middle? Full size mice.:)

Nope. must be completly thawed, snakes internals are very sensitive to cold and can be damaged very easily by it

How are you thawing your rodents?

improperly thawed prey can lead to regurgitation or worse death, so make sure anything you feed is properly thawed.

For that the best way is to thaw the prey item slowly at room temps and re-heat with a hair dryer.

Thawing in hot water can lead to a prey thawed on the outside while still frozen in the inside.

Again the key is SLOW thawing.

How much frozen? If its a just a little on the inside you're fine. Just make sure the majority of the rat is de-thawed properly. I use hot water exclusively to de-thaw my rodents and it works just great. My boas take f/t that have been about 90% thawed and never once had an issue or a regurgitation. You don't want to shock their system with a frozen rodent. Frozen stiff limbs can harm the snakes internal organs. But again, if its just a little on the interior of the rodent don't sweat it.

I disagree completely with the "if it is a little bit don't worry" mentality. You may have been ok up until now but that is just asking for trouble. How do you really know what is just a little. Why would you not simply do a better job of thawing the rodent? Throw it on the counter for a few hours, or the fridge for a day, let it thaw slowly, then warm it up properly.

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

I disagree completely with the "if it is a little bit don't worry" mentality. You may have been ok up until now but that is just asking for trouble. How do you really know what is just a little. Why would you not simply do a better job of thawing the rodent? Throw it on the counter for a few hours, or the fridge for a day, let it thaw slowly, then warm it up properly.

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I totally agree with this statement. Why would you even take a risk at possibly harming your snake? The OP NEEDS to make sure the rodent is 100% thawed before even thinking about trying to feed it to the snake.

Ok so tell me exactly why, from a medical standpoint, why a rodent that is a tiny bit cold in the middle would cause death in a snake?

I can't. Not a vet. What I can tell you is that snakes are not meant to eat anything that has a cold/frozen center. How hard is it to make sure the rodent is warmed all the way through?

Mods can edit my post if this is to abrubt but how lazy are you that you can't thaw your snakes food properly?

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Ok so tell me exactly why, from a medical standpoint, why a rodent that is a tiny bit cold in the middle would cause death in a snake?

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I'm not a doctor or vet or anything, but this seems like it should be common sense.

Snakes do not have the ability to control their temperature, like humans do. Therefore, they rely on their surroundings to regulate their temperature. So, if a snake ingests a rat/mouse that is unevenly thawed, or not thawed completely, it can be a bit of a shock to the system. In this case, they will most likely regurgitate, which can lead to other problems. Not sure how exactly it can kill a snake, but I have experienced a regurgitation and it is not pleasant. Think about how you feel after you throw up, do you want your snake to feel that way?


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Originally Posted by Deborah

improperly thawed prey can lead to regurgitation or worse death, so make sure anything you feed is properly thawed.

For that the best way is to thaw the prey item slowly at room temps and re-heat with a hair dryer.

Thawing in hot water can lead to a prey thawed on the outside while still frozen in the inside.

Again the key is SLOW thawing.

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X2

I thaw my rodents room temp for about half a day, and when I am certain they are all fully thawed and room temp I take a low wattage heat mat made by Ultra therm (can order from reptile basics), lay a piece of foil down and let my rodents warm up on that slightly warm mat until they are slightly warmer than room temp. I have about 80 snakes to feed, so with this large heat mat I'm able to warm up, and keep warm many rodents (about 2 dozen small rats) at a time, so my feeding is as efficient as possible.

Im not lazy, and usually they are 100% thawed. Sometimes if in a rush they might have a tiny bit of a cold center.

This is exactly what ive been talking about with this forum. People dogmatically follow "the rules" without even beginning to understand it.

Obviously I would never feed a completely frozen rodent to a snake. Im referring to a MINOR interior portion being maybe SLIGHTLY FROZEN. You are right that as ectotherms they do not intrinsically regulate body temperature. But a mouse with a bit of a frozen center isn't going to completely change their internal temps. In 10 years of snake keeping ive never had one regurg.

I would caution anyone on this forum to immediately claim that 90% thawed rodent "IS GOING TO KILL YOUR SNAKE!!!"

Relax

Fine, continue on. However, I still think providing the advice to others to do so is wrong. I'm out on this one.

Im just providing a counterpoint from my own experiences and those of people I know. Seeing as no one has provided any actual medical information here its all just conjecture and anecdotal. To each their own.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

I would caution anyone on this forum to immediately claim that 90% thawed rodent "IS GOING TO KILL YOUR SNAKE!!!"

Relax

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I would caution anyone on this forum against feeding a snake a rodent that is only 90% thawed.

It takes no effort to thaw something. Put it on the counter and walk away for four or five hours. If you don't have time to properly defrost your food, just let your snake sit until tomorrow. It can handle a day without food much better than it can handle something <32F in it's system which is not in any way designed to handle cold food.

Im still waiting for someone to even venture a reasonable medical answer as to why a tiny amount of frozen center would harm a snake.

Here's a thought...Even if the rat is 90% thawed, the cold is in the center, and the outside is nice and warm. Now what part of the rat does the snakes internal organs interact with? Obviously the outside. The snakes digestive tract isn't even coming into contact with the cool part of the rat, which will simply thaw internally.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Im still waiting for someone to even venture a reasonable medical answer as to why a tiny amount of frozen center would harm a snake.

Here's a thought...Even if the rat is 90% thawed, the cold is in the center, and the outside is nice and warm. Now what part of the rat does the snakes internal organs interact with? Obviously the outside. The snakes digestive tract isn't even coming into contact with the cool part of the rat, which will simply thaw internally.

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Until they squeeze it, or take a deep bite. Then the snake comes into contact with the frozen center.


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you may not have ever had an issue with feeding partly frozen but that does not mean the dangers dont exist... frost bite is the biggest danger to the snakes internals and suggesting that its ok because you havent had a personal issue yet is a very bad practice, thats like a heroin addict telling someone they cant o/d on it because they have never had that problem.... you dont half ass cooking your own food why would you not take the extra time to remove one of the only dangers to feeding f/t prey

No, a 90% thawed rodent probably won't kill your snake. However, you KNOW snakes are not meant to digest frozen food. Why give them something they are not meant to digest when you could just as easily give them something you know for certain is safe?
This isn't an example of people "Blindly following the rules" it's an example of people using common sense and properly thawing their snakes' prey.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Im still waiting for someone to even venture a reasonable medical answer as to why a tiny amount of frozen center would harm a snake.

Here's a thought...Even if the rat is 90% thawed, the cold is in the center, and the outside is nice and warm. Now what part of the rat does the snakes internal organs interact with? Obviously the outside. The snakes digestive tract isn't even coming into contact with the cool part of the rat, which will simply thaw internally.

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The reasonable medical answer is snakes don't eat cold or partially frozen or frozen food ever. They eat and are supposed to eat normothermic foodstuffs. If they are given cold or partially frozen food by accident or negligence it can cause a mild hypothermic condition that may or may not lead to shunting of blood away from endothelial tissue in the digestive tract or worse any of the digestive organs. Why even go there when our animals are depending on us to do the right thing for them and be an advocate for their well- being!

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Im still waiting for someone to even venture a reasonable medical answer as to why a tiny amount of frozen center would harm a snake.

Here's a thought...Even if the rat is 90% thawed, the cold is in the center, and the outside is nice and warm. Now what part of the rat does the snakes internal organs interact with? Obviously the outside. The snakes digestive tract isn't even coming into contact with the cool part of the rat, which will simply thaw internally.

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You don't know your biology and chemistry very well, do you? Turning your nose up at something just to break "the rules" is very irresponsible, especially when there actually are documented cases of this going wrong and very valid medical reasons for not doing so.

Contrary to belief, stomach acids don't heat anything; they break substances apart, which means the internal temperature of a partially frozen rat does not change during the process of digestion and the frozen bits inside would thaw the same as if they were still on the outside.

Edit; Looked into it further after posting. It actually has more to do with the fact that at low enough temperatures a snake can't digest properly. Feeding them food that is still frozen in the center is effectively dropping an ice cube into the stomach of an animal that needs to use its environment to thermoregulate and therefore halting its digestive processes.

I have a plastic ice bucket that I fill with hot water and soak all my rodents for about an hour. At this point I swap out the water to get them good and warm and dry them off with a paper towel prior to feeding. I usually always still push up under the ribcage of the largest rat just to be sure it is warm throughout.

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Originally Posted by Marissa@MKmorphs

X2

I thaw my rodents room temp for about half a day, and when I am certain they are all fully thawed and room temp I take a low wattage heat mat made by Ultra therm (can order from reptile basics), lay a piece of foil down and let my rodents warm up on that slightly warm mat until they are slightly warmer than room temp. I have about 80 snakes to feed, so with this large heat mat I'm able to warm up, and keep warm many rodents (about 2 dozen small rats) at a time, so my feeding is as efficient as possible.

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I really like this idea. Thanks for sharing!!!!!


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