Injunction hearing TODAY

For those who haven't kept up with what's going on in the Giant Snake community, there is an injunction being heard today, April 7th, to try and extend the time before the ban goes into effect - effectively placing it on a stalemate until the ruling is made on the lawsuit regarding the addition of Burmese Pythons, already in question. This injunction is our last chance to keep reticulated pythons, and 3 species of Anaconda off the list, at least temporarily. If this injunction fails to be accepted the ban on interstate transport of Reticulated Pythons and 3 species of Anacondas goes into effect on April 9th, effectively putting today as the last possible shipping day for large constrictor owners like myself.

Remember, this fight is not only at the feet of giant keepers, but we all fall into the same boat. With the justification used for adding our beloved species onto the list, any species can be added by USFWS at any time. This can, could, and eventually will include things like: Corn Snakes, Ball Pythons, King Snakes, Boas (barely missed it this time). While the market for these types of snakes is much larger, and the economic outfall will be much greater, the risk is all the same. It's not about standing by giant snake owners, its about uniting as an entire reptile community, and making a stand the best way we can. Show our growing support by contributing to the USARK Legal fund, and help give everyone the ability to fight this fire properly.

For more on the injunction, click here: http://usark.org/wp-content/uploads/..._PI-4.1.15.pdf

For the most recent updates, click here: www.usark.org

And to donate, click here: http://usark.org/product/donation-5-increments/

Thanks for the ever growing support from an ever growing community.

Cheers,

Cody Conway

USARK just posted this on their facebook page:

Lawsuit Update: Today at 2:00 PM began a 3-hour hearing regarding USARK's federal lawsuit. Judge Moss did not make a ruling from the bench on USARK's Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) or Preliminary Injunction. Tomorrow a schedule will be set for additional filings from both parties.
The effective date remains April 9. In 21 days from tomorrow (4/8/15), we should have a decision from Judge Moss if the Court will issue a cessation of enforcement and allow an extension of the effective date. If USARK's TRO is decided upon favorably and the effective date is extended, then interstate transportation and importation (or possibly only interstate transportation) can continue as usual. It will likely be months before a ruling is made on the lawsuit.
Additionally, Judge Moss passed a motion allowing the filing of USARK's second amended complaint. We'll provide additional information soon.

Yes. So as it is. The ban goes into effect at midnight tonight. The only mode of shipping that is currently legal will be delta cargo through this evening. FedEx is no longer a legal means to transport retics or anacondas as of today for tomorrow delivery.

We will have an answer within 21 days which could reverse this for a temporary time period. But my best guess is worst case scenario when they see that the ban is already smooth or whatnot. The judge will decide to leave it be. But I am still hopeful science and sound mind will prevail in this time.


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Yesterday was the deadline for the Judge to make a ruling on the injunction as to whether or not we will be granted the extension. No word has been given from the courts at this time.

This is a good thing and a bad thing - the good thing is, this case is likely being taken very seriously and our stance is proving to be quite strong, thus making the judge truly contemplate the outcome. This could be bad in the fact that the judge has forgotten this case existed, or is simply ignoring it and letting the injunction just fail on its on timeline. Either way, please trust USARK to keep pressure on and know they are doing all they can to retain our rights.

I'll update this thread again as more information becomes available. Remember, Ball Python owners, Boa owners, and Retic Owners, are all in the same boat!

Thanks Cody,

I was just wondering where this was at as I've not seen anything on it.

Might be time to kick a few more $$ into the USARK fund!

Unfortunately due to net-nanny I can't verify it online at the moment, but I got word that there has been movement on this today. It looks like the judge is asking for some more info from both sides, but things do look positive for us.

Word is the injunction cleared and we are going to be safe for the time being. The official wording of how this will transpire will be released on the 18th. But cheers to all of us. We have finally shown we can make a stand.


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It's all over facebook. We got the injunction. Email about it should be out in a couple of hours.

From USARK on FB:
On May 18, 2015, the parties to the USFWS lawsuit will appear in court to address certain issues regarding the scope of the injunction to be issued. "Plaintiffs have demonstrated that they are entitled to injunctive relief at least with respect to interstate transportation of reticulated pythons and green anacondas into at least the 47 states in which those snakes are unlikely to establish wild invasive populations. Accordingly, on or before 5:00 PM on May 15, 2015, the parties are directed to submit supplemental briefs of not more than seven pages addressing two questions: first, whether it is necessary or appropriate for the Court to exclude transportation of reticulated pythons and green anacondas into Florida and Texas from the scope of its injunction; and second, whether a stay of the preliminary injunction is appropriate to allow Defendants an opportunity to seek interim relief from the Court of Appeals. " More to come from USARK as soon as we can get through the 50 page ruling! We want to thank everyone for their patience. We want to thank everyone for their patience.

This is great news! I know it doesn't necessarily mean winning the lawsuit, but it is a step in the right direction and at least shows USFWS and HSUS / PETA that herpers will fight for our rights to own our animals.

Very happy for you guys that own the effected species in particular.

Congratulations to all people that are fighting for our hobby:salute:
Congratulations to all people that are working with Retics and Anacondas

its nice to see that we have great people in our Herp Community
Thanks USARK

Freakin awesome. :O:carouse: Great job, USARK.

Can't wait to hear back from today's hearing... !

True story..... Waiting..... :rolleye2:

Lawsuit Update: Judge Moss did not rule on the effective date of the preliminary injunction today (5/18/15). We expect an answer by late tomorrow. Stand strong, Reptile Nation. For answers to any questions, view our previous post: http://www.facebook.com/UnitedStates...type=1&theater.

***Final Verdict is in***

The Injunction was a success and it has been announced what it stands for.

1) You can transport retics across state lines again, including green anacondas, however, Florida and Texas did not make the list.
2) This means you can ship snakes out of Texas and Florida, however, you can not ship snakes into Texas and Florida
3) This is not in effect YET - you need to wait until all documents are officially signed into place
- This will go into effect 14 days from today!! June 3rd, 2015
4) This does NOT mean Burmese pythons, African Rock Pythons, Indian Pythons, or Yellow Anacondas can cross state lines again. These are still on the Lacy act, and the law suit to get these snakes removed from the list or at the least amend the working of the Lacy Act to show that they are allowed to cross state lines - just not be imported into the US is still in progress. DO NOT SHIP BURMS, AFROCKS, OR YELLOW ANACONDAS!!

Full report is available here:

http://usark.org/2015-blog/7182/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

***Final Verdict is in***

The Injunction was a success and it has been announced what it stands for.

1) You can transport retics across state lines again, including green anacondas, however, Florida and Texas did not make the list.
2) This means you can ship snakes out of Texas and Florida, however, you can not ship snakes into Texas and Florida
3) This is not in effect YET - you need to wait until all documents are officially signed into place
- This will go into effect 14 days from today!! June 3rd, 2015
4) This does NOT mean Burmese pythons, African Rock Pythons, Indian Pythons, or Yellow Anacondas can cross state lines again. These are still on the Lacy act, and the law suit to get these snakes removed from the list or at the least amend the working of the Lacy Act to show that they are allowed to cross state lines - just not be imported into the US is still in progress. DO NOT SHIP BURMS, AFROCKS, OR YELLOW ANACONDAS!!

Full report is available here:

http://usark.org/2015-blog/7182/

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Beat me to it! Also, there is a restriction to USARK members only on this too, unfortunately, suggested by USFWS.

Here's the link for the legal-ese version

http://usark.org/wp-content/uploads/...Injunction.pdf

Ok, dumb question time. It's pretty late at night, sorry, haha. So retics and green anacondas can be shipped again starting on June 3rd as long as you aren't shipping to Texas or Florida, but is this permanent or temporary? As in, is it just to give the hobby more time to get out of retics and green anacondas or is this something that's going to last?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penultimate

Ok, dumb question time. It's pretty late at night, sorry, haha. So retics and green anacondas can be shipped again starting on June 3rd as long as you aren't shipping to Texas or Florida, but is this permanent or temporary? As in, is it just to give the hobby more time to get out of retics and green anacondas or is this something that's going to last?

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Usually injunctions are permanent, but they can only be given at the end of a lawsuit. The preliminary injunction grants the plaintiff a chance to ask the court to order that the defendant (FWS) either continue doing something or not continue doing something until the court reaches a verdict for the lawsuit itself.

So basically, USARK asked the court to let them continue transporting retics and green anacondas for now, because too much damage will be done if it's on hold until the end of the full lawsuit which includes the burms.

Unless FWS asks for an appeal, starting June 3rd, it will be legal temporarily until the injunction can either be made permanent or dismissed at the end of the lawsuit. That said, it's encouraging that USARK got that far, and there's a chance that even if they lost the lawsuit the injunction would be made permanent (so retics would be legal to transport, but burms still wouldn't be).

TL;DR - It'll be legal "until further notice," but could go either way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chkadii

Usually injunctions are permanent, but they can only be given at the end of a lawsuit. The preliminary injunction grants the plaintiff a chance to ask the court to order that the defendant (FWS) either continue doing something or not continue doing something until the court reaches a verdict for the lawsuit itself.

So basically, USARK asked the court to let them continue transporting retics and green anacondas for now, because too much damage will be done if it's on hold until the end of the full lawsuit which includes the burms.

Unless FWS asks for an appeal, starting June 3rd, it will be legal temporarily until the injunction can either be made permanent or dismissed at the end of the lawsuit. That said, it's encouraging that USARK got that far, and there's a chance that even if they lost the lawsuit the injunction would be made permanent (so retics would be legal to transport, but burms still wouldn't be).

TL;DR - It'll be legal "until further notice," but could go either way.

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Ah, thank you! Seems like no matter what happens, this is either a small victory or a large one. Even if the injunction didn't become permanent, it seems like this is a step in the right direction. As in, now we know for sure that it's possible to get somewhere in the legal system if it's necessary to defend the reptile hobby. Thanks again for explaining that, I don't speak legalese. :)

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Beat me to it! Also, there is a restriction to USARK members only on this too, unfortunately, suggested by USFWS.

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This is very important. If you are not a USARK member then you are not covered by the temporary injunction. So, not only will you need to join USARK if you want to ship/receive a retic or anaconda across state lines, you will need to verify that the person on the other end of the transaction is also a USARK member.

I think USFWS really screwed up - this restriction will encourage people to join USARK if they aren't already members! Because the judge didn't state in the opinion that a person had to be a USARK member as of a certain date to be covered, but only that one had to be a member to ship.

I'm trying not to see the FWS as an enemy. I DO think they're misguided, and acknowledge that there may be some overlap of individuals between FWS and some more radical animal welfare groups, but FWS is ultimately in place to "...conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

The rule was heavy-handed. It's easy to look at a practice and say, "well let's just be done with the whole thing" rather than find the resources to correct and manage each aspect of it that would ensure the concerns do not actually become issues.

With the way things stand, that seemingly arbitrary and counterproductive qualifier makes the distribution of reticulated pythons regulated and enforceable. There's less of a draw to do things illegally - why pay $500 of fines (or however much the penalty is) when you can pay $250 to join USARK? And those that ship legally will be policed by USARK itself, just like we try to do with CITES permits. No one wants to be associated with someone who is irresponsible or a crook, or risk losing what they've worked so hard for.

Essentially, by "allowing" USARK to ship large constructors, FWS is putting the accountability on USARK and if a bunch of people skirt that rule, it'll look bad on the industry as a whole (and risk losing support for future battles) since there's a solution that accommodates any claims of desperation. Any non compliance looks that much worse since we have something to prove.

The FWS and USARK ultimately want the same thing: for giant constrictors to not destroy native wildlife or cause mass panic because one of them ate Mrs. Doe's teacup yorkie. This is just one way of forcing a compromise, rather than saying "okay, well then you all need to have permits and take these classes and comply with these inspections..." which eats up a bunch of resources FWS would probably rather use elsewhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This is very important. If you are not a USARK member then you are not covered by the temporary injunction. So, not only will you need to join USARK if you want to ship/receive a retic or anaconda across state lines, you will need to verify that the person on the other end of the transaction is also a USARK member.

I think USFWS really screwed up - this restriction will encourage people to join USARK if they aren't already members! Because the judge didn't state in the opinion that a person had to be a USARK member as of a certain date to be covered, but only that one had to be a member to ship.

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Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't it say "limited to USARK members on or before April 8, 2015" here (http://usark.org/2015-blog/7182/)? So wouldn't that mean you would've had to be a member as of or before then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penultimate

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding, but doesn't it say "limited to USARK members on or before April 8, 2015" here (http://usark.org/2015-blog/7182/)? So wouldn't that mean you would've had to be a member as of or before then?

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THIS is the big question that USARK has not been able to answer as of yet. The Court Document only states that you must be a member of USARK - It does not state like USFWS requested, that you must have been a member before the injunction was filed. We are all still waiting on hearing that answer. IF that is the case a lot of folks will be extremely upset as countless of us have donated to USARK without ever filing for membership. . . So if you get 50% of the folks who paid the bill NOT be members and then they are withheld from the injunction, its going to be an ugly day in the community.

Hopefully we have more information soon, but it seems like USARK is suggestive that you simply need to be a member WHEN you ship / receive. And we must remember that USFWS put this into the wording. It was not USARK demanding members out of this as some people have now started to suggest

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

THIS is the big question that USARK has not been able to answer as of yet. The Court Document only states that you must be a member of USARK - It does not state like USFWS requested, that you must have been a member before the injunction was filed. We are all still waiting on hearing that answer. IF that is the case a lot of folks will be extremely upset as countless of us have donated to USARK without ever filing for membership. . . So if you get 50% of the folks who paid the bill NOT be members and then they are withheld from the injunction, its going to be an ugly day in the community.

Hopefully we have more information soon, but it seems like USARK is suggestive that you simply need to be a member WHEN you ship / receive. And we must remember that USFWS put this into the wording. It was not USARK demanding members out of this as some people have now started to suggest

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This. Also remember that even IF the preliminary injunction is limited to USARK members as of the filing date, if you have a retic or anaconda to ship out and you aren't covered by the injunction, it shouldn't be difficult to find someone who is, and that person handles the shipping for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This. Also remember that even IF the preliminary injunction is limited to USARK members as of the filing date, if you have a retic or anaconda to ship out and you aren't covered by the injunction, it shouldn't be difficult to find someone who is, and that person handles the shipping for you.

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The greatest of all loopholes is also this -

Since fedex is shipping company, and we use SYR "all pro shipping". If all pro shipping is covered under the USARK membership, does that make it cover shipments? consequently if All Pro Shipping was not a member, does this mean their account is null and void for shipping retics and anacondas? *Sigh* - again, unless stickers are forcefully sent to be used there is no means to enforce this logic. But i'm still waiting on official wording saying that it only applies to members pre-injunction.

Apparently the injunction officially only applies to those who were members prior to April 9th. Those who become members after are not qualified to ship.


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I'm trying to figure out how to prove my membership. You can't even log on to the usark site. I did do the bronze membership before the 4/9 date.

So I managed to log into USARK by hitting renew membership, which requires you to log in. But I can't find anywhere where it says my membership for how long it's active kind of thing. I do have it in my paypal history of the $40 though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This is very important. If you are not a USARK member then you are not covered by the temporary injunction. So, not only will you need to join USARK if you want to ship/receive a retic or anaconda across state lines, you will need to verify that the person on the other end of the transaction is also a USARK member.

I think USFWS really screwed up - this restriction will encourage people to join USARK if they aren't already members! Because the judge didn't state in the opinion that a person had to be a USARK member as of a certain date to be covered, but only that one had to be a member to ship.

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"Members" are anyone who donated anything - even just volunteered - before April 8th. It does not necessarily encourage people to join now as they won't be covered. In addition, and if I'm not mistaken, only the person who is shipping them out has to be a member. Not the receiver/buyer.
That said, this does look like some form of screw up for USFWS. Since we're playing by their rules, they cannot challenge the injunction, in addition to other negative implications for USFWS that I do not yet understand.
USARK is also now being protected by the Court in that USFWS is not allowed to bankrupt them, which is very awesome.

To me, the best part about an injunction is the fact that it sort of acts like a preview for the entire lawsuit - one of the reasons why a PI is so hard to get is that the requesting party has to be proven to likely win by their merits. And they did! So whether the rules of the injunction suck or not, the final ruling of the lawsuit can be expected to reach a far better conclusion to allow interstate transport and hopefully even imports.

You can check on the wall of honor on their website for a list of all donors.

Lawsuit Update 12/9/15: Two briefs were filed today and the links are below. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) jointly filed a brief which begins with twaddle about man-eating disease vectors laying over 120 eggs per clutch.

USARK Update 12/9/15:

The Center for Invasive Species Prevention (CISP) filed an amicus brief (seeking to intervene in the case). Both briefs have asked the Court to overturn the granted injunction. The briefs mirror prior paperwork being heavy on hysterical discourse, but lacking solid arguments.

While those familiar with these species can see through the propaganda presented by these groups, we must realize that these parties have made their agendas to end the keeping of these species and other herps clear. They will do their best to influence the Court.

The herp community must present ourselves publicly as professional, civil and educated regarding these animals at all times. We cannot allow bad actors to be our voice and continue to add to the bias held by the majority of Americans of these snakes. Please represent the responsible side, and majority, of the herp community well. We must illustrate everything positive about our community while remembering that most people fear and misunderstand these animals, and us.

Link 1, HSUS/CBD brief: www.usark.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Doc-No-1587617-HSUS-CBD-Intervenor-Brief-1.pdf

Link 2: CISP brief: www.usark.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Doc-No-1587688-CISP-Amicus-Motion-and-Brief.pdf

Next Friday, 4/1/16, a three-judge panel will hear oral arguments on the USFWS motion to appeal the preliminary injunction against interstate transport of the five snake species that were added to the Lacey Act. There is a small update from USARK on the case.

Last Tuesday 3/22/16 those judges issued an order to HSUS and CBD requiring them to explain (show cause) why their briefs should not be treated as amici curiae briefs. USFWS filed a notice of appeal of USARK's preliminary injunction, but HSUS/CBD did not, nor did they motion to intervene in the appeal. Thus, the appellate judges are suggesting that the failure of HSUS/CBD to follow the procedure to file a notice of appeal or motion to intervene at the appellate level leaves them in the same position as anyone else who would desire to file a brief with the court.

One obvious difference is that an amici curiae would not be allowed to appeal (file a write for cert to the Supreme Court) a decision favorable to USARK by the appellate court. Thus, HSUS/CBD could be denied the right to appeal along with other rights of actual parties to an appeal.

The HSUS/CBD filing is due on Monday 3/28/16. This would not change the status of HSUS/CBD as intervenors when this case goes back to the Federal District Court in DC.

The court's order is at http://usark.org/wp-content/uploads/...late-Order.pdf

Post from Kevin McCurley today - I went through and starred out any "sentence enhancing words". I hope this is allowed because I thought it was an important post. We do not often think about our actions. Especially on days like today, Easter, and all the "Easter is cancelled" and such posts shows snakes eating rabbits.

Anyways:

"Ok here goes....... if you Keep Retics, if you WANT to continue keeping larger Herps you may really want to take the time to read this (sadly) long post. I think we all need to get on the same page. As you can see we are trying to rethink our position and lead with thought. I can't do this in short form. Here goes :
** Large Python/Boa Keepers - Our present Crisis. **
Our hobby has changed considerably over the past 12 years, we now keep and breed snakes that were only in our dreams. As we enjoy the "fruits" of our labors we are quickly being targeted by anti pet keeping organizations, federal and state legislators. As we progress in our husbandry and breeding abilities we appear to digress in our understanding of how we are viewed by others, people that do not share in our pleasures. Let me be blunt, the reptile, exotic pet "industry" and it's keepers are Ground Zero in the war against the keeping of pets. As anti pet keeping organizations such as HSUS work towards their mission statement , "to end pet keeping in the United States" we come sharply into focus. The easiest target is a bunch of weirdos keeping animals that are considered loathsome, dangerous, disgusting, injurious and unsuitable as pets. As we all know, our pets of choice are not cute and cuddly, often they are at the other end of the spectrum. We are literally the perfect target as we hang out in the open "defending" our "rights" to keep our predatory pets in cages, in a spare bedroom! Well, we do not have the "right" to keep these animals, this is the actual reality, we can argue it over and over but it is not an actual right, we are presently "allowed" to keep these animals in some states. According to USFWS it is a "privilege" that we are allowed to keep these animals. In a rather short time large pythons and boas have risen in popularity with pet keepers and pet legislators. The more people keeping these animals the more people that notice we keep them and the more people that want to stop us from keeping them. Each and every year anti pet groups become more powerful and greatly effect parts of the pet keeping industry. These victories are often quiet as they aid USFWS and state agencies to ban species from the pet keeping world. There is no reasoning with these people, as passionate as we are about our animals they are equally passionate about animal rights and the cruelty they perceive we present. Anti pet keepers would rather a 10th generation captive bred and born parrot to not exist or to be dead than ever to live in a cage. We can argue that the bird is happy and loves its life but these people will never understand, they are beyond rational thinking. Clearly, I can go on for a very long time about the aspects of our plight and our position but we need to all be on the same page now.

All larger reptile keepers need to establish some basic guidelines about what we do, post and say. We keep carnivores, we know what they do, they eat other things, DON'T post any of it! Don't post them eating, don't post what they are eating, we are not sadist and we do not need to publicly relish this activity. The people that continue to do this make all of us look bad. Remember one very important thing, it may only take one person, one incident to change everything! We are only as strong as our weakest link. Time to firm things up and disassociate ourselves from the people that continue to embarrass our community. There is literally no benefit to showing any carnivores behavior, we know all about it but bragging and making dumb comments only provides ammo to our enemies. When you goto McDonald's do you see lots of pictures of chickens and cows? Do you ever hear anything about Fast Food and what their product is made of? Clearly not, this is for a reason and we better smarten up FAST! Anyone that displays an interest in the suffering or torturing of rodents needs to either stop or become an outcast. This is an incredibly sensitive subject and we are not in a position to challenge this fact. I am writing all of this in a simple fashion but I am not laying it all out in print as I do not want to provide bits to be further used against us (wink wink, NUDGE, NUDGE!!!!) Bite pictures, yes, a snake may sometimes bite as it mistakes us for a snack or just gets confused, its not an opportunity to get fame and attention. What is up with people getting nipped and feeling the need to post it all over social media, are we that lusting for attention? People that keep these snakes so they can get attention are not people that will do anything positive for any of us. Attention seekers will create negative attention and create problems. Yes, we love to keep big snakes and show them around but if you do it, do it with your brain turned up to 10! All it takes is one idiot parading their large constrictor out in public and scaring people to change and ruin things.

If you keep large snakes you need to seize the educational aspect of your animals and what you do. Remember, these animals are the representatives of tropical and remote lands, use your opportunities to enlighten people, get over their fear and more importantly, create value! Reptiles and such are vanishing from the landscape, each and every day there is less of the natural world and more of us! I can not push the educational aspect enough, this creates value, meaning and understanding in what we do and why these animals are suitable pets. Every responsible reptile keeper that teachers others is doing a wonderful job helping all of us, every half *** keeper only hurts us. It only take one idiot on social media to embarrass our entire community of keepers, just like one lie can be more powerful than a thousand truths.

Our present legal battle against USFWS Injurious regulations with our battering ram USARK is working well. We have argued effectively against the massive list of mistruths and fiction provided by USFWS, HSUS (National Humane Society) and Center for Biological Diversity. An effective argument in no short feat, we are literally having to choose what we regard as the most significant arguable points and creating a digestible counter for the judge. As we read documents sometimes 330 + pages plus of reasons why many pythons and boas should be banned as pets and interstate transport it is easy to get lost in the non-sense. As I read these pages my natural response is to write 330+ pages of why its not factual, scientific or reasonable. Clearly, attorneys can not make sense of each and every point, we need to pick solid points and keep it intelligible for the Judge. Remember, the Judge knows nothing about snakes and see their massive documentation why they should be banned and sees our smaller version why the information is flawed. We are naturally on the short end of the stick and we do not have the enormous benefit of being a government agency. The Judge is an intelligent and reasonable man, he views the arguments and tries to make sense of the "facts", regardless of over 300 pages of non-sense provided by our opposition. We are presently waiting for the judge to hear USFWS appeal and I feel our position is presently solid.

"Presently Solid", what does that mean. Well, that means as long as we continue to act in a reasonable fashion and watch what we are doing. We have argued the facts and have educated the court, we need to remain in a positive light. Essentially, we need to regulate ourselves even better and not provide the ammunition that our opponents are desperate to have. We are no longer just fighting a Government agency, we are fighting private groups that literally hate us and use FICTION as a serious tool! They have a near endless amount of money and they have the ear of the public, we have none of that! The amount of energy they use to create hysteria, misconceptions, fear, loathing and action against us is incredible. You see the sad animals suffering on TV, donate money to save them right? Wrong, they take the money, hire more lobbyist to help USFWS create LAWS against pet keepers and create endless nightmares for us. We are the Enemy, we are small, poor and disorganized, we have only one weapon, reality! In this fight, lies are far more effective than truth and we need to smarten up and remember the world is watching each and every one of us! Social media may be fun but it is an effective way to accumulate information, pictures and videos that can and will be used against us!

I am stating that there needs to be an immediate end to feeding videos, pictures and anything to do with this aspect. Don't post something clever, just don't post any of it! 2. No more bite pictures unless insignificant and with purpose. DO not ever post a bite picture where the injury looks significant, scary or rather bloody. Adult and sub adult bites should not be posted, superficial bites are ok. The internet is watching and loves to make our pets look SCARY! 3. Posting things to get attention that makes us look bad needs to end. Posting snakes and sounding like a gangster is not going to help us and does a wonderful job to pigeon hole us as idiots. 4. Anything that can be viewed as animal cruelty don't post it! 5. Posting snakes in a filthy cage or something that is clearly not admirable without purpose, don't do it! 6. Stop posting dumb things that make you or other snake keepers look bad. Show off your snakes, show off people playing with snakes but don't show the world you have a third grade education and your an idiot. 7. EDUCATION, why is this the LAST THING that people want to show? What has happened to us? Show off pictures of people interacting with snakes in a positive light! Show snakes in a way people wonder and rethink their fear. 8. Do not post a snake in a small enclosure or filthy that another person could take out of contact as cruel or unsuitable. The world is watching. 9. Watch what you say.. Do not talk about them as DANGEROUS in any way, but making them out to look scary or dangerous/harmful you are DAMAGING our hobby!!! ( Wink, Wink, Nudge, NUDGE). 10. If you are doing anything illegal, or illegally keeping them in a state or community where you should not, DON'T post it!!!!!

Last point to consider....... State agencies are hopping on the: You will need PROOF of INSURANCE, a Million Dollar policy to keep that animals in this state.... no one will be allowed to touch it but the permitted, you will need to create an emergency plan, a plan of who will take it if you die. You will not be allowed to take it outside your home. You are endangering the public, community, environment ..... all sorts of nightmarish stuff just to keep the animals you now have!!!!!!! Don't provide the fuel that hurts us all. I can not fight for all of you if you don't stop and think about what you are doing and how it may make all of us look. We can not endure further mistakes at this time, our fight is difficult and we need to watch ourselves and put a good face on what we do. We do not need an added permit system, they can create such restrictions that having the permit and snake offers little enjoyment!
PS : Sharing videos of AWFUL videos involving cute little things(being eaten) that we keep as pets is DUMB!!! Lots of people enjoy all sorts of critters and they FREAK OUT when they see this stuff. Why would we want to aggravate these people? (Example the asian video of puppy and snake, it is AWFUL and WEAPONRY, Get rid of it, delete it and DO NOT SHARE!!!!) Stop doing that, delete it and make it go the hell away, it is going to KILL US!!!! Other breeders or keepers that are mouthing off and condemning us on social media are only going to HURT us, do not help them in any way! Breeders and well known keepers, time to smarten up and think about what you are posting! Do not be an idiot and the anti snake poster child, I don't care if you need attention, use your brain and WAKE UP!

Double PS: To all of you that thinks this is BULL****. Ok, you are clearly the ones that do not lift a finger to help our fight. You are not involved behind the scenes, you are likely not part of USARK and you are not the ones going to represent US! You are not the ONE pouring over USFWS arguments on why all of these species are DANGEROUS and INVASIVE... you are not the one that can argue against them even though you want to scream with the amount of lies you have to read. You are not the one providing endless information to the legal fight. You are not the one that spends hours and house on the phone with the attorneys. You are not the one creating a strong relationship with one particular attorney that has been a literal god send to all of us (Rich Stanley). You are not the one that helps Phil Goss (Wonderful job he has done for all of us!!) generate interest and fuel in the fight. You are not the one that continues forward when most everyone else has given up. I don't want to hear about we must have a spine and "I will do what the **** I want" ....... In reality, you are self serving and do little to benefit any of us here. You make us look bad, you fuel the fire and only help speed us along to not being "allowed" to keep these snakes. Maybe, possibly, at some point you will win with your tired egomaniac ways and create a gang of anti establishment buck the system keepers.... and then I will just get tired enough of you and your gang and STOP doing anything to fight the laws and give up. I can tell you one thing, if I am not doing a bunch of the heavy lifting and using my expertise we are ****ED! Most people have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes, they have no idea how this whole thing works. They think it must be ****ing magic, right? WRONG, there is a small group of people that are doing the real stuff that matters. You continue to act like fools, disregard them and fuel the fire against our industry and they will give up! Without THEM we will fall like a pathetic gang of ****ES! If you are not one of the people I am talking to then just ignore my little rant...but if you are, I have no use for you, our industry has no use for you and you can either use your brain or piss off. Remember one thing, we can easily get rid of you on these groups, we do not need you and a bit of house cleaning is always in order...... if you suck then you are the first to go! I am tired of looking at people online making us look stupid, the sooner we realize that your stupid the sooner you can go away!

Triple PS : If you think all of this is bull**** because the arguments against our snakes is bull****...... Wake up, seriously, wake the **** up! We are arguing against pure and utter non-sense in many aspects, essentially, we are arguing as if we keep the literal boogie man in our homes! None of this matters, I got over that long ago, we are arguing against people that are very willing to lie and misguide the powers that be. As much as this sucks this is all we have, we need to take a deep breathe and hope that we can articulate our realities into a format that makes sense. These people will do and say whatever they want to achieve their end game, BAN and END our pet keeping abilities or make it so difficult we can not possibly meet all of their requirements! People hate snakes, USFWS does not want us to have them, they are looking for any possible way to stop us and they have a huge amount of help. The Center for Biological Diversity is the new kid on the block, funded by a BILLIONAIRE - Andy Saban. I spoke to him twice, there is no way to discount this man and what he thinks. He has an attorney that is a reptile "expert" and he believes her more than he believes me!!! I tried arguing my points, he listened for awhile but believes all the "hype" and "facts"!!! These people literally think our snakes are going to get loose and take over, there is no way to convince them otherwise! The fact that we have accomplished so much with the pathetic organization we have is amazing, take away a key player or two and it's OVER! So, does this make sense?"

Is there anyone with the time to create a positive campaign for keeping reptiles, especially larger snakes? It would be great if there were something positive we could share on social media that helps dispel some of the misruths and lies used to hurt our community. I already share lots of stuff from national geographic and similar pages on Facebook. Propaganda and fear mongering can be countered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhoenixGate

Is there anyone with the time to create a positive campaign for keeping reptiles, especially larger snakes? It would be great if there were something positive we could share on social media that helps dispel some of the misruths and lies used to hurt our community. I already share lots of stuff from national geographic and similar pages on Facebook. Propaganda and fear mongering can be countered.

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I think this is important enough to warrant its own discussion:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...akes&p=2429854

Lawsuit Update: Hearing on Appeal of USARK’s Preliminary Injunction

Being the party that appealed USARK’s preliminary injunction, the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (“FWS”) carries the burden of proof at the United States Court of Appeals. Accordingly, FWS was required to present its case first during the oral argument on April 1, 2016 before a three judge panel. FWS is required to prove that the US District Court Judge made an error in his written decision granting USARK a preliminary injunction.

Within approximately 30 seconds, Judge Tatel interrupted the oral presentation of counsel for FWS. The judge reminded counsel that the primary rule of statutory interpretation is to read the actual words in the statute. If the meaning of those words is not ambiguous, then no further legal analysis is necessary.

The focus of the judge’s questions was clearly on the words of the Lacey Act injurious species provision. At least two of the judges seemed unconvinced that you can read the statute to prohibit interstate transportation. If that’s their conclusion, then the following arguments of FWS become irrelevant: legislative history, ratification by implication and deference to a government agency interpretation pursuant to the Supreme Court’s decision in the Chevron case. It is important to note that the US District Court judge considered all three of these arguments and rejected them.

Here’s the actual language of the statute: ”any shipment between the continental United States, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States, of [an injurious species] is hereby prohibited.”

In the 1970s, FWS interpreted “continental United States” as the geographic area containing the 49 states on the mainland of the North American continent. USARK agrees with this interpretation. Thus, for example, FWS can prohibit transportation from Hawaii to Colorado, or from Texas to Puerto Rico. Washington, DC was explicitly mentioned as being prohibited for transportation by Congress because at that time, DC could not make its own laws. Hawaii was specifically mentioned because Congress was specifically trying to stop the transportation of the mongooses then in Hawaii to the other 49 states. Hopefully, this background information will help you follow the oral arguments regarding the language of the statute. [Note that the judges suggested that if Congress wanted to prohibit transportation between the 49 continental states, they might have at least included the following capitalized words in the statute: any shipment between ANY OF the continental United States.]

The arguments regarding the legislative history, etc. can become even more difficult to follow for several reasons. First, the Lacey Act was enacted in 1900, so it has a long legislative history. Second, the language of the Lacey Act was substantially revised in 1960 to essentially what you see in the quote above. Suffice it to say that we do not believe that the additional arguments, even if considered by the Court of Appeals, will help FWS any more than those arguments helped FWS when they made them before the District Court judge. The fact that the judges focused so much time on the plain language of the statute suggests that their written decision may rest on such language.

An audio recording of the hearing can be found at http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/recordings/recordings.nsf (the actual audio file will eventually scroll off of the page but you can find it in the future by searching on case 15-5199).

What’s next: There is no timeline for the Court of Appeals to make a ruling. It may be months before we receive an answer so now it’s a waiting game again. We could get an answer any time from next week to several months from now. Then, we pick up with the continuation of the lawsuit. However, while the Court of Appeals is deciding, the current status for shipping reticulated pythons and green anacondas remains in effect. Get those details at http://www.usark.org/2015-blog/7182/.

Currently, the Court is only going to decide if we get to keep our awarded injunctive relief and can continue shipping reticulated pythons and green anacondas until the court makes a final ruling on the lawsuit. This is kind of like a halftime show while the football game is stopped. After we get a decision on the appeal (halftime), the third quarter starts (lawsuit).

A final ruling on the lawsuit, not the injunction, decides the fate on shipment of the other constrictor snake species listed as injurious. Due to the crafting of the injunction, there is no valid reason to overturn it. If a ruling is made upon facts and sound reasoning, the injunctive relief rightfully awarded to the Reptile Nation will continue. Thank you for your continued support while fighting this government overreach.

Learn the history: For more information and FAQs regarding the “Constrictor Rule,” click this link: http://www.usark.org/2015-blog/7081/.