Belly heat

Setting up a new cage and I'm wondering what temperature should be maintained with the uth? I'm at 85 where my BP will lay in the hide.

No hotter than 95 ON THE GLASS or under the substrate.

I have my thermostat set to 90, but it only gets up to ~88 on the warm side, but my BP seems happy with that. Generally, you want to shoot for 90 but if it's off by a few degrees that's ok. It also depends what type of substrate you're using and how thick it is. I'm using newspaper.

I started using only my radiant heat panel in my PVC cage no UTH . His hide is about 88 and out in front of it it's 90. My thermostat is set to 85 probe reads 85. My temps across the cage from far corner are 76 and get up to 90 on the other side. In my glass cage I ran a uth and made. The hot spot 88, the other end was a ceramic heat bulb and it was like 78 at the thermostat probe. The snake didn't seem to care for temps 90 or more. He wouldn't stay in the hide during the day. At lower temps, he did. Same as my PVC cage. My BP is young still. I don't feel he needs heat up at a solid 90.

In a natural habitat, where does this under the belly heat come from ? The only heat that they can get is off an object that the sun has heated up. So I only use the RHP on the roof of my 12 inch tall cage that heats up the floor and the top of his hide. As he gets farther from the panel he can get to a spot that is 76.

hunterr24 the temp should match the snake. I am guessing you have a baby ball python? I use a hot spot of 88ºF for babies. Adults get a bit hotter I use 90ºF for them. The temperature should be regulated somehow I would suggest a thermostat (unless you room temp is 100% stable then a rheostat can be used) if you have a heavy (dense) material for the enclosure you can choose an on/off stat as the inevitable spikes are mollified by the mass of the enclosure. If the material is light weight or has a low density a proportional unit should be used. I actually recommend a proportional stat, even more so a herpstat *with* the 'safety relay* function is my #1 recommendation. It offers the best price for the highest safety. (lower need of a fail safe).

Skeletor I am going to disagree. An enclosure is not a natural environment, it is a captive environment. An RHP simulates what the sun does when it is up. A UTH simulates what the natural environment is like after the sun sets. The type RHP and UTH are basically the exact same they both are radiant heat the face of the RHP and the floor of the enclosure become convection sources. Practically speaking they are the same but for the higher operational costs and the higher purchase price.

Great info kitedemon....I am still learning things myself and have been in a gray area for a while on the subject. I spoke with my resident expert on BP cage heating and what I gathered from the conversation was.......... their preferred method of heating a PVC display for a BP was to only use a radiant heat panel located at the back rear corner (I've got several different opinions from several different people, which is normal). In your opinion, do you feel that a RHP only is ok as long as good temps are met ? Yes...the price of the RHP was a considerable chunk of change compared to heat tape. With heat tape under my PVC cage, I have to run it at 105 just to reach 88 above the paper towel floor....it did nothing to heat the cage but it did great to add humidity with a water bowl over it. I can run both tape and RHP but now I'm not. As of now, my RHP on 85 heats up the hot area to 90 and the temps drop down as you cross to the other side. Some people say the belly heat really isn't needed and from laying on a device that provides a constant, steady heat....snakes trap heat and it builds up. I know this is not a big deal because I started out doing that in my glass cage. How does a belly heating pad simulate what happens in a natural setting if it's staying hot from under the so called ground ? I look at my RHP panel only set up as the snake hiding in a hole with the sun heating it from the top....I can program my Vivarium VE-300 to drop the temp at night to simulate the sun going down. His hide is still heated from the top and holding heat in like a rat hole in the wild. Now if he feels like basking on a 90 degree hot spot, he can lay on top of his hide that is closer to the roof of the cage. What are your thoughts on my way of thinking. Thanks in advance kitedemon.

What I have now is a pvc cage with heat tape on 1/3 of the tank where the hide will be. I have a ITC-100F temperature controller. I'm running the controller at 100 degrees high with a 2 degree drop off. Which achieves a constant 85.9 degree at the top of the reptile carpet ( think it was called). Thought that was better than paper towel without the hassle of wood chips. Also the controller has a shut off it the circuit is shorted or opened. The cold side is 79 degrees during the day. I can play with the room temp if that's to cold.

My cool side is at 80, so that's fine. If they need more heat, they'll just move to the warm side. You really want to measure the temp under the carpet, though and see where that's at. I was using Reptibark before I switched to newspaper, and I had the same issue. The bark wasn't transferring heat efficiently, as there was a ~6 degree difference between the surface of the tub and the top of the substrate. If I wanted the top of the substrate to be around 90, I would've had to run the heat source dangerously high. It was losing battle.

Hey hunter24, I rather use the reptile carpet also.... I'll have to get some. Just wanted to add some more info. I feel a RHP has more horsepower than heat tape to provide a good temperature range inside a PVC cage. Running at 85, it lays down some nice heat. It's inside material can handle 1000 degrees, it has a thermal cut off and the snake can't lay on it. If you put a ceramic tile under it, that tile, once heated, stays nice and toasty for a while. The directions of my THG heat tape say not to get the tape above 105. So I was pushing some limits just to maybe see 88 on top. My cage is 3/8 thick. The stand under it was wide open also. The air gap may add to helping heat the bottom with tape I did close off my bottom and got a little extra out of it. I gave up on the tape for now, I'll give it some time to watch and observe the snake. So far after a week he is acting like a BP.

Nocturnal lizards and terrestrial snakes do not bask in the light, and tend to require simply a warm/hot spot with which to thermoregulate themselves at all times. There are a few more heating options available for these animals.


If substrate and cage is too thick....

Radiant Heat Panels (RHPs) are fixtures made for the housing industry which have been modified to work for the reptile industry. These were originally made to provide heat for rooms, where the heat would radiate down from the ceiling tiles. RHPs usually need to be wired by hand, must be controlled with a thermostat, and can only be used in enclosures where they can be securely fastened to the ceiling with screws or similar items. They provide safe, relatively energy efficient heat without producing any light to disturb the animal. They come in a variety of sizes to fit most enclosures. RHPs provide an excellent heating alternative when terrarium substrate prevents the use of under-enclosure heating options. Place a RHP on one side of the enclosure only, to allow for a proper heat gradient.

Done deal....Some PVC cages are too thick to run heat tape under them....But !!!thickness of the cage is great for holding in heat and humidity so why not go for the RHP ?

Another question for me.....The blinking orange light on a RHP, is it annoying to a snake ? It annoys me.

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

Nocturnal lizards and terrestrial snakes do not bask in the light, and tend to require simply a warm/hot spot with which to thermoregulate themselves at all times. There are a few more heating options available for these animals.


Another question for me.....The blinking orange light on a RHP, is it annoying to a snake ? It annoys me.

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Yes they are so why simulate the suns rays when they do not bask? Why not simulate the warmed ground after the sun as set like a UTH. I have never had an issue heating through PVCx, Glass, acrylic panel, PVC, polycarb, and Glass reinforced plastics.

Humidity is a product of ambient temp and water mass it has little to do with radiant heat sources.

I don't believe they are efficient, I have a GTP in a PVCX enclosure with a perch about 10 inches from the face and an 88ºF hot spot. Beside a second PVCx enclosure with a UTH and 88ºF hot spot. The UTH is 11w and easily holds this temp, the RHP is 40w and also holds this temp. The herpstat says the UTH runs between 20% and 0% almost all the time. The RHP runs between 20-40% most of the time. It is more power usage and a higher on time how is that more efficient? This is compounded by the terrestrial snake the RHP heats the wrong direction, top down, the set point should be the floor level making everything higher than the floor hotter than the set point. This is wasted energy. I love RHPs just not for terrestrial animals it is the wrong direction.

Do you have figures for the efficiency testing and what they were tested against? I would believe them to be more efficient than a CHE at heating surfaces as CHE heat air massively as well. But a UTH at heating a contact surface?

As to the red light, as pythons see heat, I can't Imagine them being bothered by the little red light when there is a panel beside it that emits heat they can see. Before you tell me that the heat pits aren't eyes check your anatomy. The heat pits are processed in the optical enters of their brains the same place as their eyes are so they 'see' heat. There is a recent study of how sharp an image it produces. (http://phys.org/news76249412.html)

It's a vague question in the sense that every set up is different. I use repti bark on in my enclosure but repticarpet in the hot hide secured on all sides so he can't burrow and in a glass tank with a zoomed uth and a thermostat I have my thermostat at 104, my glass temp is 98 and my surface temp above the carpet is 90. Why do much heat loss who knows but I just had to fiddle with it to get it right and that's what most have to do. If you keep your hot hide surface temp as close to 90 as possible and the rest of the enclosures ambient temp around 80 your golden. At night I keep the same temps using a moonlight bulb and a che on a thermostat. I do know my glass temp is high but he can't get to it so I'm not worried

I guess its all depends on what works for the persons type of enclosure. It's still great to have this discussion about it, It's all great info to me. I enjoy it very much and appreciate kicking thoughts and ideas around .....I understand the UTH method and how it could be looked at compared to a natural setting, but I don't think its that dire to have a belly heat pad that comes up from the floor steady all day......is it fine, absolutly if it works for that setup. I'm starting to feel there is more than one way to take care of BP's depending on what the cage is like and other methods are fine. I don't think a RHP is creating a basking area as much as its just heating one side of the cage and the rest of the cage takes on a cooler temps as you get away from it. Any hot spot is a basking area of some sort isn't it, it doesn't matter ? I read that these snakes do not bask on hot surfaces...they just need a certain air temp . You can't get away from the sun heating the top of a hide or the ground (RHP). Mine will lay on a hotter area if it wants to. As for his hide....its like a hole they would be in in nature....its only heated from the top....that takes on a certain temp after a while and he's happy. His entire inside hide is 88 heated from the top including his belly . If he needs to cool off....he can move to the cooler side. In a PVC cage that can't get up to temp with heat tape.....I would say the RHP would be fine. It may use more power but it has more power to get temps up....unlike the tape in my setting.....It's sort of weak and annoying because the tape keeps peeling off (foil tape). Like I said....until I'm told that's just RHP is absolutely wrong and a UTH is a must....I will absolutly look at running my floor heat also for steady belly heat. One thing I was thinking also....was to run the UTH and RHP off of one thermostat and put the probe in the middle of the cage. As of now....the snake is fine and is acting normal....he just ate also. OH and thanks kitedom......I enjoy your info....greatly appreciated and will taken into consideration.

I would like to add some more info about RHP. Some say they do not heat the air and this is probably very true, but everyone strives to get a certain ambient air temperature in the cage. What difference does it make what the air temperature is if the RHP has heated everything around it, including the snake, to the same temperature and maybe even a little more depending on the object. The snake can't lose any body heat because it can't transfer to anything colder around it. Unless he moves to a colder area of the cage. A snake doesn't live in an environment with forced hot air heating....He lives in an environment that is heated by the suns radiant heat from above. Why not use only a RHP in the PVC cage from above if it works. Not that UTH is bad....it's radiant heat but I can't get enough energy out of it from under the outside of the cage. Thanks in advance for any feedback and thoughts.

Snakes have a very large lung, it is quite long and runs past the heart, liver, and all the major circulatory system. Cool air in the lung chills the blood and drops the core temp. As a snake gets bigger simply laying on a warmed surface is not enough, they need correct air temps not just surface temps. The issue with an RHP is misunderstanding, people believe that measuring ambient air temps by sticking a thermometer under the RHP is accurate, it is not the probe surface temp is all that is being measured. Often they are used to raise ambient air temps this is often not accomplished and over and over I have seen snakes stop eating, and start becoming less and less healthy. only to discover a RHP 'heating' the air 10 or 15ºF over the room temp. Only it isn't doing this at all, it is heating the air 2-5ºF over background and that in the cases I have seen is not enough.


They are expensive and not efficient used this way, and often don't do what people think they do. You have suggested an RHP as a sole heat source to someone whom has dialled in a UTH, as a better source when it does exactly the same thing and offers nothing to the OP but spend his/her money. The temps are corrected the cool temp is fine what is the reason for changing?

You have offered no data on why it is more efficient compared to a UTH. You have claimed that you cannot heat through PVCx and you can. I do so using far less power. More over as things get closer to the panel they get hotter, therefore you end up compromising the temperature to keep things reasonable. When I had a RHP in a terrestrial snake the hide top was 94ºF and the floor was only 88ºF I would have preferred 90ºF on the floor but that raised the hide roof to 98ºF and that is hotter than I want to see anything inside the enclosure.

My room is 70 far side of my cage is 76 in the far corner. I never said a RHP is more efficient. I said it had more horsepower, meaning it's a stronger device and uses more power. I never spent anyone's money nor told them to. I just let people know my setup and what they take from it is fine. The heated objects in the cage are heating the air in the cage obviously. If I hang a probe, it reads more than room temp. 88 is fine inside a hide, a black hide will get warmer. As long as they can go to a hot 90 they are good. I'll take your advice and put it in my head. It's all spot on but being super critical with these numbers isn't me. If the range of heat is there. I feel good about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still studying and kicking thoughts around with people. Thanks.

To kidedemon The OP said he was at 85 on a UTH in a PVC cage that we found out later it was in fact a PVC cage, we all agreed his heat should be at 88 for a young BP ok done. I took my time to let him know that I s.witched to only a RHP on the back far corner of my 36x24x12 PVC. We agreed they cost a little more and I was saying it has more power to heat than the tape in my cage. I'm only offering my setup to the OP, and also taking in thoughts from others.. You told me a RHP does not heat the air of the cage and puts cold air into the large lungs of a BP.....OK, fine. Here is a photo of my Cage running a 40 watt RHP only at 86. The floor readings in the hot spot are 88-91.....as you move to the left side of the cage the far corner floor is 76. If you hang a probe from the top of the cage....not under the RHP, my air temp is now reading 82...here is an immediate picture for you. Oh...my room temp is now 70. This is why I suggested that the OP may want to consider a RHP in his cage.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjzecpwmu.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswrdgwgdm.jpg

Also....as you can see the heat tape thermostat is not on and has not been for seven days just before my snake ate last.....Remember that enclosures must allow for a proper thermal gradient that the ball python can utilize, with a hotspot on one end of the enclosure and a cool spot on the other. Provide your ball python with a basking spot temperature of 88 to 96 degrees Fahrenheit and an ambient temperature of 78 to 80 degrees. The ambient temperature should not fall below 75 degrees. Nothing says the inside of his hide has to be the hot spot for the snake to collect belly heat....My setup has a hide that is a above the average ambient temperature...The snake has an available 90-91 degree spot in front of his hide and mostly on top of the large black hide (like a basking shelf if you will)...here he can do the belly heat thing when he feels like it. He pooped today and I'm sure he will eat when I feed him soon. RHP rules !!!!

This is exactly my point, from the image your probe looks like it is likely in line of sight of the IR radiation coming from the RHP. This means would mean your 'air' temp is actually a surface temp and your air temp starting at 70ºF and add 3 or 4 degrees is bare minimum and if your room drops a few degrees you are opening the snake up to RI.

They heat hot spots perfectly well no arguments, arboreal set ups more efficiently, but in rooms under 74ºF they need help to lift the ambient temps up. You are claiming a 12ºF lift in air temps? How then do others use RHP in rooms heated to the high 70ºF with out over heating the enclosure air? Does anyone ever say that room is too hot for an RHP? EVER see that? no you don't. My enclosures with RHPs one is 30x24x18 the only place out of line of sight of the RHP is the top corner the entire bottom is effected by the RHP as the bottom is warmer than the room temp. The same as you have described, you are not suggesting that heat is conducted from the hot spot to the cool spot, so clearly the enclosure is altered by something else, the RHP is heating the floor, it is in line of sight. Check your air temp not the probe surface temp. You probe for air temp would need to be close to the top not the floor, loosely 10 inches from the RHP and about level with the face. Hot air rises so this 'should' be hotter than your 82 correct? Check it.

I have too many time recently helped treat snakes with RI in an enclosure in a cool room with a RHP that is 'heating' the air 10-30ºF (magically that varies when the room temp increases but the hot spot stays the same)

Lets ask a second question did you notice when you switched a large drop in your humidity with the RHP?

My probe is 11 inches away from the RHP about 1/2 way down from the top of a 12 inch tall cage. No other heat device used. I lowered the house to 66 and get 79 on that probe hanging dead center 6 inches down from the top. Turned the heat back up and it's going up. It depends on the cage, mines too thick for heat tape.

OK, hang with me kitedemon because you are the first person I met that will. :) OK...so far, my RHP is at 86, heating the floor 88-91 ish under it. My room temp has been at 70 except when the furnace stopped last night and dropped to 66. (I'll ignore that for now). I took a picture of a probe dangling in front of my cage way away from the RHP...about 6 inches down and reading 82 solid...later I moved the probe dead center cage and waited a while and I read a solid 80-81. Now I have the probe hanging in the center of the cool side, tip is one inch above the floor.....I'm reading a solid 77.2 and I ave not waited that long . From what I know already, and it's a rule I use....Never let the ambient temps drop below 75. His cool side lingers around 77.2, probe is hanging in the air, Is this a good cage setup or what ? This cage will hold 50-52 humidity without even trying hard.

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

OK, hang with me kitedemon because you are the first person I met that will.

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That's cute :rolleyes:




And all of this is why new member have so many problems.
I don't understand why everyone wants to overcomplicate everything.
Regulating your selected heat source so your reptile of choice doesn't get injured is the goal here.
Thermo quantum physics makes my head hurt...............

OK...last experiment before I have to do the Easter thing...I got the probe hanging in the very far corner of the cage...It's one inch from the ground....I got a hide stood up in the corner blocking the probe from the RHP that's more than 2 foot away. I'll wait a while and see what that reads It's at 76 now....My rule of thumb....never let air temp go below 75. His hot side never and mid cage never come close. Now it's 76.3....Remember...this probe is the farthest corer of the cage from the RHP, blocked from line of site with a hide, in a room 70 degrees.

OK...waited a little while.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6gjexfyc.jpg
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbqj6ka9u.jpg

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That's cute :rolleyes:




And all of this is why new member have so many problems.
I don't understand why everyone wants to overcomplicate everything.
Regulating your selected heat source so your reptile of choice doesn't get injured is the goal here.
Thermo quantum physics makes my head hurt...............

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I hear you...I was told the RHP can't heat the air....It seems to me that the air gets warmer with it. And.....your exact statement "regulate your selected heat source........" Thank you, can't agree more. Amen and halllelujah.

People I know with 17 year old BP's will say this to me also.

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

People I know with 17 year old BP's will say this to me also.

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And this means what??
I have a 14 year old ball, I haven't been a keeper that long so this is pointless.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

And this means what??
I have a 14 year old ball, I haven't been a keeper that long so this is pointless.

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If you say so. Their point is that they have been caring for BP's for a long time and not to get super scientific about it. Like you said yourself in your last post, pick a heat source and regulate it. I have had long time keepers have the same attitude and give the same advice. I don't find it pointless, I tend to take the advice from people with successful experience. My point is, I agree with that what you said and I've been told the same from long time keepers. Thanks for the quality advice, it was short and sweet. Not cute just sweet. lol. Kitedemon and I were involved in a discussion that was going well also even if it was more involved, Still a great conversation. Greatly appreciated and I learned a few things.

The post is about belly heat. My original point was that I only use a RHP in my cage without a heat tape. and my ambient air temps and floor temps etc....seem well within a good range. I wanted to see what others though on going this route. Now I'm kicking thought back and forth with kitedemon about ambient air temps. He has been very helpful in bouncing what ifs and his experiences with me. Now I think I answered all my questions for now. There are too many variables and cage styles to have one correct way. Thanks all

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

There are too many variables and cage styles to have one correct way. Thanks all

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This you are correct on.
Cant run a RHP in a rack.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

This you are correct on.
Cant run a RHP in a rack.

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Thanks for stating the obvious. Last time I checked, we were talking about PVC cages. Wow, that was genius levels of information.

That is good that your ambient are a couple of degrees over a scary low. Yes clearly your ambient is 76-7. It is also clear orginally you stated your ambient was 82. Which was influenced by the RHP, or it would not be changing. Unless you want to argue that the air inside the enclosure is stratified like it does in large spaces and that you are not getting convection currents, defining the laws of thermodynamics. I have said many times and most of the manufacturers back it up RHP work fine in heated rooms. This is because they don't alter the air temp substantially. The original claim you made was the air was 82ºF that is a 12ºF lift now it is only half this.

If you were to add a fluorescent light you would likely see a much larger lift in ambients I get 10-15ºF over the room and in the summer I must shut them down as they are too warm. I hate seeing wild claims that cannot be backed up by evidence. +12ºF over the room +20ºF over the room even +30ºF over the room. Then a little poking it comes down to a reasonable 5-7ºF so 2 maybe 3 more degrees from a UTH.

I use them I look after many enclosures with them and most of those are in warm rooms and no issues with over heating. I have had this same discussion over and over it is funny how many claim things that cannot be. Like a stable hot spot temp and a stable ambient temp with a variable room temp. One heater cannot have different outputs at the same time a radiant heat unrelated to its convection heat, yet this is the claim many have made, constants hot spot and as much as 20ºF in ambients season to season. Forgive me but I don't want to watch yet another why is my snake stopped eating, It has RI, It has RI again, it is losing weight, my poor snake died series of threads again. All of which can be traced back to the same root not actually measuring ambient air temps, but the probe surface temp.

The question remains did you see a huge change in the humidity when you switched?

I don't know why people over complicate things it is super easy UTH, probe, and a liner FL tube and a LED tube, timer, done. During the coolest times, FL and led for 12 hours and led over night. When the ambient air temps start an upward trend (74-85 is a huge range) drop the led during the day 12/12 as it gets warmer reduce the FL times until it is off altogether.

Cheap, easy and efficient. I need to make 4-5 timer changes a year.

RHP are perfectly suited for arboreal set ups they heat the upper perches perfectly create a side to side gradient and the floor and lower perches are cooler. It is the perfect set up. Using them to floor temps, is in efficient, unless you have a animal that naturally basks pointless. Nocturnal snakes don't bask why simulate the sun with a non basking nocturnal animal? Why not simulate the warmed ground after the sun has set?

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Originally Posted by Skeletor

Thanks for stating the obvious. Last time I checked, we were talking about PVC cages. Wow, that was genius levels of information.

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It was a general statement on your post I quoted.
As far as a genius level....... SMH
Must be something in the water??

Fascinating discussion. For my snakes I have always used UTH. I always thought radiant heat panels were fine to use, I've never heard of them being attributed to RIs and death.

My leopard gecko in in a PVC cage (another nocturnal belly heat needing reptile). I use ceramic tile in her enclosure. Even without a thermostat I could not get the bottom to heat up more than 80. I added a CHB and that helped but barely and only in a specific spot. Recently I switched to a RHP. It's been perfect! It gets the belly heat she needs and seems to heat up the whole enclosure to where it needs to be. I stacked some rocks so she can climb closer if needed and I put the prob on the top rock. It reads 90 while the lower rocks are 85. The cool side is now 72-75. She has tons of various spots of hot and cool.

What works for some may not work for others. If a heat panel is working just fine for a ball set up then why would one need to change to a UTH?

The RHP is not at fault, the keepers were, as always. It was situation born of ignorance as it often is. The keeper was only measuring surface temps and never measuring air temps. The best example I have was in my area I arrived to take the snake to the vet, (keeper had no car) I found a RHP working perfectly well a hot spot of 90ºF and a ambient air temp of 63ºF. The keeper like many many others did not understand that an RHP principally heats objects. The 'ambient' air temp was not being measured correctly, it was a surface temp of the probe after the RHP warmed it. They have their uses in a situation where a UTH cannot heat through the floor (like a wooden enclosure) they are likely the best option.

They don't add massive amounts to air temps we just saw when it is shielded from the RHP output is was +6ºF over the room, enough in that case, but the original claim was for 15ºF almost twice. The OP is using a UTH and has temps in hand slightly low, the suggestion was that an RHP was better. But I will not accept it is better, it is nearly different, and basically the same for terrestrial set ups. I would suggest that sticking a UTH to the ceiling be a poor mans RHP as the guts of them that is all they are anyway. They are not a different heater at all just a different placement of an old heat system.

It they consistently heated +15ºF over the room temp people would never use them for things like green trees because in a normal room they would add too much to the ambient air temps, in fact they are the choice and what I advocate for GTP myself speaks loudly to them not adding huge amounts to air temps. Less than ten degrees and often around 5º.

I was getting 77 then it went to 78 in the far far corner of my cage blocking the probe from getting IR from the RHP. My first readings in the middle of my cage were 82 but I never blocked the probe from getting IR. do you feel that's a good test ? I figure if I get 77-78 far corner, the RHP is doing ok or better mid cage and hot side. I spoke to Reptile Basics, they said this is their preferred way of heating a cage. My snake ate again another week later. This was yesterday. Cool side temps went up, it got warm outside. Snake spent the night on the cool side it seems. Hmmm. Well I'll try and block the probe mid cage and see what temps I get. I know blocking the probe is like being in the shade from sunlight. The probe reading should only be reading air temps if it's shaded from the IR of the RHP.

The OP got his answer. All I did was claim I went from UTh to RHP and I'm getting good results. He doesn't have to purchase anything, do anything I do etc. I hijacked his post since I just got rid of my UTH, just wanted to see what others thought of this method. What I took from it..... Watch the ambient air temps. So that's what I'm doing. Thanks all.

Yes that is spot on. The probe shaded (even temporally by white paper) will read air temps. If it is too close to the floor it becomes influenced by that too. This is the issue of RHP misunderstanding, the keeper not ever measuring the air temp and expecting the probed thermometer to be correct with the air when it has direct IR on its surface. Ambient air temps should not be influenced directly by a heater. Remember cheap probed thermometers need time to change and stabilize too. Up to 45 min.

Skeletor if you actually have more than a ten degree difference in just the air it shows the air is not moving. Warm air will rise and cause the air to mix. If I had a room that had 10 plus degrees different in air temps I would expect something to be very wrong.

Lodgically the enclosure should be slightly warmer at the top than the bottom so if you think you are measuring air temps and you think you have a side to side difference the top inch or so should be the warmest (warmer than 82). You can demonstrate what I am saying if you can hold a probe close to the ceiling and it is cooler than the suspected 82ºF air there is something a miss likely the 82ºF reading is incorrect.

There is some discussion that radiant heat sources foul IR guns as well. Some high end units this is not the case but few own top end flukes, to use a gun they say to shut down radiant heaters. My loose understanding is the lower end meters measure the brightness of reflected IR illumination, having an IR source causes an error. How much or what that could be I don't know, it is the engineers prattle and I have to struggle to keep up.

You have to understand such a complex heater to use it correctly, radiant heat is hard to get your head around, and needs more understanding than average to use well than most other heaters.

You get a different effect in a black walled enclosure than white. Plastic than glass or wood, what substrate you use, what the hides are. Most heaters are not so variable.

All great points and info Kitedemon. Very helpful info and I will be using it all to test my cages out. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with a noob like myself.