Progression of Muriel the Albino Paradox

This is an active progression thread for Muriel, a female Paradox Albino 100% het for Anery, born 3/4/15. It will undoubtedly be image heavy, as I am a photographer and I find myself suddenly in possession of a very photogenic snake- dial-up users beware.

The 28th of March - last Saturday - was Repticon Denver. I've owned a ball python for a year now but I'd still never been to a reptile show before, so then you can imagine my excitement when my roommate and I were finally able to go to one. I dragged my roommate along for hours, snapping pictures, researching snake species, ogling all the pretty morphs. I wanted to bring another snake home but all of a sudden I was unsure of what kind of snake- I had been certain up until that point that I would only be keeping ball pythons. They were easy to take care of, didn't get too large, and they were available in many attractive colors and patterns. I considered king snakes, Brazilian rainbow boas, woma pythons, corn snakes, another ball python. As I was perusing all my options I'd frequently wander by the couple of booths showing off a number of juvenile boa constrictors. I have always adored the triangular shape of their head and their amazingly beautiful eyes. But I was discouraged by how big the adults were- according to my research, they can grow to be 10'. But this was before I knew the difference between boa constrictor constrictor and boa constrictor imperator, tehehe. So, with the image of a monstrous snake in my head, I reluctantly decided not to consider getting a boa even though I really liked them.

Roughly four hours later, we're still at the show and I still haven't decided on my new snake. I came close to getting an ivory pastel ball python, but someone beat me to him while I was still being indecisive. We finally decided to call it a day but not before making one more pass at all the booths. Twisted Genetics had a stunning collection of young boas and by this time, I was so discouraged and hoped that maybe I had been wrong about their size. Turns out I was! The breeder kindly explained to me the difference between BCC and BCI and then he showed me his row of three-year-old's. They weren't even four feet long! It felt like Christmas, I was so excited. I examined them all- the anerys, the sunglows, the jungles. There were four paradox morphs that I was really in love with- sadly, three were hold backs. But there was one little albino paradox female I couldn't keep my eyes off of. She was a few hundred dollars outside of my price range, but then the breeder said he'd give me a discount. That's when I knew I had to have her.

http://i.imgur.com/kSMfayA.jpg

It was a long drive home, but she rode comfortably in my roommate's front pocket. I wanted to name her Muriel- it was almost as if she had told me what her name was, it came to mind so suddenly and seemed to fit her so well. I did a lot of research that night after I had settled her into her 10 gallon aquarium. She was exploring her surroundings the next day, and because she seemed so adventurous and calm, I broke the new snake rules and took her out for a couple pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/XWPDT9Q.jpg


She is currently in a 10 gallon aquarium with aspen bedding, a small hide, a couple of climbing plants, and a water dish. Her temperatures are fair- 83° ambient, 92° hotspot. I am having quite a bit of trouble keeping the humidity up but that's to be expected with a glass cage in a very dry state. Because of how much I've been battling with temperature and humidity levels, I've ordered a PVC cage from Animal Plastics. It's the T8 4'x2'x'1 so I plan on dividing it so I can fit both her and my ball python in it together. Eagerly awaiting its arrival.

Thanks for reading! I'll be sure to update on a regular basis.

Grats. That is a really young boa. I usually don't see em go for sale until about 6 months old or at least the first couple sheds and 4 or 5 meals. Also not sure if the breeder told you but a female BCI will get to around 7-8' on average but it is possible for her to get to 10' although not probable. Regardless though, BCI are generally really laid back so more than likely, she will turn into a 8' puppy :P Boas got the cutest little faces too :D And waiting for a new cage is the longest wait except when you are waiting for a snake to ship lol.

Oh also if you are having trouble with humidity, you can just put a humid hide in there made from a Tupperware container with moist moss in it. Works just as well and should do fine until you see the AP cage in about 3 months :)

I know, I was a little shocked myself when he handed me a genetics guarantee card with her birth date on it. Not even a month old! I learned later that females can get to be 8', give or take, but I knew that females would be the bigger ones because that's usually the case with other species. He actually sexed her right in front of me because he hadn't done it yet, and by then I'd already fallen in love. There was no hope for me- I was getting a female!

Thank you, I think I'll try that. (: I want her to be as comfortable as possible during the wait.

Congrats on your beautiful little girl! I liked the back story too.:)

You'll be fine. All my stuff are females and Rosey my 6' BCI is like a giant puppy dog. Just today she finally came out of her hide after going into blue and she is out of her cranky mode and sat at the front of the cage till I opened the door. Then she popped her head out to say "Hi" and let me pet her head and body. Then she lounged at the doorway for about an hour and then back under her RHP and curled up to finish her shedding. They truly are like giant puppy dogs.

Both males and females can get as large as 9'-10', there's often threads started to show of large snakes in the boa constrictor FB group I'm a part of and those threads are surprisingly dominated by BCI. That's just how large they can get, though, not how large your baby will get. I see so many males just as large or larger than a female that I don't normally recommend male vs. female anymore, there may be a general pattern of females being larger but it seems getting a big male is still a high enough probability that I personally just recommend staying away from Colombians if the size is an issue.

As far as humidity, you can always put a humid hide in there to help her out, but you still have to have the rest of the enclosure within the acceptable range for her species. I'd suggest switching to EcoEarth tbh, it does wonders for humidity in a set up that allows the bedding to release moisture. In my personal experience, it doesn't do well in a UTH/heat tape set up, so if that's what you use you may want to try cypress mulch or sphagnum moss instead.

I would not allow the ball python and the boa to share an enclosure, even with a divider until her quarantine is over (3 months minimum, I prefer 6 months myself). Diseases and parasites can easily get around that wall and cause your ball python to become sick.

That all said, very nice BCI! Do you have any photos demonstrating her paradox? It's hard to see any in those photos.

Her species is just a BCI and honestly I would be floored if I ever saw a 9-10' male BCI. That thing must have been powerfed from birth to achieve that length. Now a BCC can achieve that but even males, I would be surprised to see over 8' on a male BCC like a Suri or Peruvian. males do stay quite a bit smaller and they biggest thing is they stay much thinner assuming you aren't powerfeeding them. And again yes any BCC or BCI is going to get kind of big but again, a male BCI, I would be surprised if it got over 8', very surprised. Now insular boas like caulker or crawls or hogs will stay smaller if that's what you want.

As for humidity, she will be fine for a couple months as she said she ordered an AP cage and any PVC/HDPE cage is going to hold humidity easy. My Pro-Line that I got my 6' girl in keeps at 50%+ humidity and even tanks can be made easy. Both of my 40 gallon breeders hold 50% and I use aspen in all my cages with nothing but RHPs for PVC cages and CHEs for tanks. People say you NEED 70%+ during shedding and I call BS because I have kept 50-60% humidity for 2 years on my 6' girl and she has never had a shed that didn't come off in 2 pieces at worst, 95% of them are 1 pieces rolled up like a sock. And again i'll say it and it will probably piss off someone but I find UTHs a waste. I have used then once for a few months and dumped it. All I run are ambient heating and its fine.

And I do agree, I wouldn't house your boa and BP in the same enclosure as boas can be carriers of IBD and not affected by it but IBD in a python is quick and 100% lethal. I read about people checking for IBD in boas by throwing a normal BP(because they were cheap) in a critter cage and then putting it in the boa cage and if the python got IBD and died, they knew the boa was a carrier and would keep it out of their collection.

Power feeding does not affect the end size, only the speed with which they reach that size. They got that big because they were meant to. Many of them were over 10 years old, which power feeding usually cuts their lifespan off much sooner than that, and most looked in good health and body tone. You also have to keep in mind BCI are commonly crossed with BCC, and it's not well documented so you could have a cross and not even know it.

A couple of months is too long to be going bone dry, EcoEarth is much cheaper than aspen pound for pound, so it's also more economical.

But I agree with your stances on UTHs, I personally am not a huge fan of pure belly heat, I believe all but burrowing species require ambient heat.


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Well I agree that most powerfed snakes don't make it past 5 years or so but snakes never stop growing, its just during the first 3-4 years that they do most of their growing and that is why if you feed them very generously during that time, they will grow bigger if that makes sense. For example, you got a baby boa and you feed it every 10-14 days for 4 years. Then you got a baby that you feed every 7 days. That second baby will achieve a much bigger size than the conservatively fed one. That is partly how people can keep their boas on the smaller size and how people do it with retics too. Now yes genetics will play into it as well but that is end size. So like I said, the second boa will be probably 4'or so by the end of the first year and the first one will be 2.5-3'. And I also agree that most BCI are crosses somewhere and that goes back to the genetics end of the equation but again that is only part of it. Food is the other part. A good example is dwarf and SD retics. They are much smaller than their mainland cousins because of the food supply that was available. Mainlands got big because they had lots of food while the island guys didn't.

As for bone dry, that's why you run a humid hide. The boa can regulate the humidity it needs and no house is going to be bone dry anyways. I'd guess most peoples houses sit in the 30-40% range so uping it by 10-20% isn't really too hard. Maybe where you come from Eco Earth is cheaper but here in Washington State, aspen is pretty cheap. I buy it from Walmart for a smidge over $3 for 20 quarts. Aspen is much easier for me as I do complete cage cleanings monthly so its much easier to scoop up aspen, throw in bags and then vacuum the cages, spray em all down with Chlorhexidine, wipe em out and throw new aspen back in. I used Eco Earth for a year and I hated that stuff. It got all over everything, got dusty if it dried out and with using 2" of it, my big girl would pack it down from her weight which I'm assuming is the reason it molded on me. I had to throw out all the Eco Earth, all the wood she used to climb on as that molded where it touched the Eco Earth and tear down the Pro-line cage and completely scrub each piece and then put it all back together. That's when I switched to aspen and didn't look back. Now aspen will mold too if it gets wet but I use large heavy water bowls that even my big girl cant tip over.

I am not sold on them growing their entire lives, there is no proof. As much as personal experience is worth, my bp will be 9 years old in September. He reached 3'7" when he was 2-3 years old iirc. He hasn't grown even a millimeter in that time. Also, boa constrictors have noticeable growth for the first 5-6 years of their life, they are extremely slow growers.

Your retic example is more evolution to combat the lack of food rather than the lack of food itself making them smaller. A snake conservatively fed will reach the size it was meant to, just as a more generously fed one will. To further complicate matters, individuals grow at their own rates and may still grow fast despite a conservative schedule.

The 8.8 L of aspen I bought for my garter was about $4-5 iirc (I'd have to double check). I can buy a set of 3 blocks of EcoEarth for $7. That's 21-24 L of substrate. Hence why pound for pound it's cheaper. Of course I'm buying all my bedding from pet stores, which may explain it. I can't find aspen in 20 qts in any pet store where I live.

I've had the exact opposite experience with EE. The only enclosure it molded in was the BRBs, where I used belly heat. I have had wood mold touching it if it lays on top, but haven't had mold if I had a branch buried in it. I guess being on top of it more humidity was held. In my set ups, humidity is released easily so I don't really encounter mold.

As far as cleaning, use a dust pan to scoop up bedding in the enclosures I can't lift and then vacuum up the rest. Otherwise I just dump it and spray out the bedding before cleaning. I don't really have a problem with it sticking to stuff or getting everywhere either.

The humid hide doesn't negate the need for RH. It should still be kept within the range (50-70%) so that the snake can still have adequate humidity even outside the hide. Inhalation of water particles is important for internal hydration, and promotes better skin health.


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Well to each their own. What works for you works for you and what works for me works for me. Thank god there is more than one way to raise boas :D Also try Walmart, that's where I get my aspen. I prefer that to pet shops as 1) Pet shops tend to overprice everything they sell and 2) At a store that has no reptiles, you run no risk of bringing home snake mites even though its really rare to find it on substrate. The only downside I find is that the stuff you are talking about, Zoo Med I'm guessing because of the 8.8L size is nice and finely shredded, almost like double shredded. The Stuff from Allpet(Walmart) is a little more coarse but still works well and my baby sunglow and beeper love to burrow in it and make tunnels and hide under it with just their noses sticking out lol. My big BCI girl is lazy and doesn't even use hides, she just sits out in the open all stretched out or in a loose coil with her head on top.

Sorry Fincayra, didn't mean to hijack your progression thread :D

The Wal Mart where I live only sells cedar and Carefresh. I don't mind paying the $30 once or twice a year it takes to replace all the snakes' bedding (it takes a butt ton of bedding to fill up the BCI's 6' enclosure).

Getting mites from bedding isn't very likely. You should be more worried about it if you handle one of the reptiles, mites don't really hide out in bedding. They can't survive long off a host.


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Don't worry! The discussion has been very informative. I'll try to address a few of the things brought up, though.

Her cage will never fall to a 'bone dry' level. I spray the glass and artificial plants daily to boost the humidity, and 3/4's of the screen top is wrapped in tin foil to trap most of the moisture. I also have a humidifier running throughout the night and with all that combined, the humidity hovers between 30%-50% depending on when I've sprayed the tank/when the humidifier is on/etc. I think adding the humid hide like Sauzo suggested will maintain a steady level of humidity, at least enough to make her feel comfortable. Right now I'm using aspen bedding, but only because I had a bag left over from a while back that I wanted to use up- otherwise, aspen isn't my first choice. I use cypress mulch in my ball python's cage and I plan to use it in hers once I'm out of aspen.

I expect the PVC cage won't arrive for a couple months, but now that I've had time to mull over it, I think you might be right about housing the two together even with a divider. The thought of a disease potentially spreading between them makes me nervous. After a six month quarantine, do you think they can be housed together, or should I forget the plan entirely? Is there too much risk involved even after quarantine?

The black pigment is actually hard to see with her being so young; there are only a few parts on her body where I can see anything at all. I'll try to get some good pictures in the next couple of days.

The thing about IBD and boas is boas can be carriers of IBD their whole lives and you would never know unless you put a BP or another boa with them, then you would find, pretty quick in the case of the BP as IBD is quick and deadly in pythons. But after 6 months, I think honestly you would be ok. I personally like aspen and many many many herpers and breeders have used aspen for years with no problems as well as newspaper so again I honestly wouldn't worry too much as long as you can get the humidity to 50% and if you are really worried, throw a humid hide in there and if the snake wants more humidity, he can get it. Cypress is nice too but I have heard stories of it carrying critters like wood mites which aren't harmful to snakes but can get annoying. You ever run into that? I have never used cypress personally. Also I have read that Eco Earth if allowed to dry out can cause irritation in snake lungs and a couple people actually claimed it caused RI because of how dusty it got when it dried out. Now I'm not sure I believe that but I will agree, it if dries out, it becomes really dusty.

I've decided that the PVC cage will house my ball python and Muriel will get her own when she gets to be a little older and most importantly bigger, haha. She appears to be comfortable in her 10 gallon tank; temps are stable and she's exhibiting normal boa behavior. Sauzo, I haven't had any problems with wood mites yet and I've been using cypress in my python's enclosure for well over a year now. I've been buying the bags from zoo med.

The other day I had some lovely sunlight coming in through the balcony doors in the living room. Tried to capture most of her little paradox spots, but they're very small since she's still an itsy bitsy noodle.

http://i.imgur.com/hxzDYkU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jc4pEjC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NzcFYBe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4xw3RIg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5OtqWv5.jpg

Fed her her first pinkie the other night too (believe it was on Sunday). She spent a whole fifteen minutes poking it with her nose. I tried teasing her with it and that almost did the trick but she still wouldn't strike. Tried warming it up a bit and that didn't get much of a reaction either. I ended up leaving it in the cage overnight for her and it was gone in the morning. I checked under the substrate and it wasn't there, so she must have gone back for it. Guess she's a shy eater?

http://i.imgur.com/aeQgmzD.jpg

Awww she's so tiny!! And that food is even smaller!!! Yeah Vicky is an inspector when it comes to food. She squeezes it and then will completely inspect it before eating. I was wondering what happened as I never saw a pic of the snake. Grats. Yeah I didn't think that wood mites would be in the pet quality stuff, just heard people mention it but I bet its more from the nursery grade stuff. That pic of her staring at the pinky is funny. It's good she is eating though, shy or not. Anyways this post is a ramble of different stuff all over the spectrum but grats again on the little guy.

Beautiful boa! I can see the paradox fine. It's cool it's on her tail, most of the ones I've seen were on their necks or backs.

I'd feed her something much larger than that pink, a mouse fuzzy should be about right, that pink is barely the size of her head! It should be about her girth without leaving a bulge, so a small or large fuzzy should be good.
Some people also prefer to stay away from pinks with boas because of the milk bellies, which can be hard to digest.


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Huh. The breeder told me to keep her on pinkies for at least five feedings before starting on fuzzies. Can't help but doubt his judgement now. She is my first boa and I'm still learning. I'd like to feed her the remaining pinkies but if it's not recommended I guess I'll be taking another trip to the pet store.

Yup mine was started on rat pinks and was able to take rat fuzzies only a month or two later, and they are actually born large enough to start on mouse fuzzies, so she could definitely take larger. :)


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cool columbian red tail boa


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fincayra

Huh. The breeder told me to keep her on pinkies for at least five feedings before starting on fuzzies. Can't help but doubt his judgement now. She is my first boa and I'm still learning. I'd like to feed her the remaining pinkies but if it's not recommended I guess I'll be taking another trip to the pet store.

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The breeder is right. The reason he said that is because on new boas, its best to start them on smaller food for a month or so to let them get adjusted. Too big of a prey too soon can cause regurgitation which will do more damage than just not feeding at all. This is fairly common for BCCs, which is why most people with BCC feed every 2 weeks regardless. A single regurgitation on a BCC can set it back months. So I would listen to your breeder and start her off on the pinkies. A snake has never died from too small of prey but has from too large and boas aren't like pythons, they should be fed smaller prey more often than really large meals less often. The breeder I got Vicky from was feeding her rat pups which are equivalent to adult mice. I started Vicky off on hopper mice and have now just moved her up to small adult mice. I just feed her every week vs the breeder who fed her every 10-14 days. I'll drop her down to every 14 days once she hits 1.5 years old.

The thing is that a mouse fuzzy would not be too big for that snake. BCI are not as prone to regurging as BCC, but feeding one pinky to that snake is underfeeding it and there is the possibility of milk bellies being harmful to their digestive system. OP should feed their boa more developed mice, as long as it does not leave a noticeable, or a barely noticeable lump, the baby should be fine.

They should be fed smaller prey slightly less often. Babies should be fed every 7-10 days and no more often than 7. You can feed every 2 weeks as babies if you wish but I feel you should feed them a bit more while they are growing, so I hold off on a biweekly schedule until they hit a year old.

Also, feeding an older mouse rather than a baby rat would provide more nutrition and calcium to a growing snake while still being small enough.


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I'd rather not throw away the pinkies I have left. I'm thinking it won't do her too much harm to offer them up till they're gone and then I can get the appropriately sized prey.

I was going to share a few pictures (I caught her parascoping yesterday) but I think this might be a little more urgent. Today I was handling Muriel and I noticed her vent seemed a little irritated. It looks like there is a little bit of crust and the area also looks a bit dark and swollen. It doesn't look that bad, but it was enough to get my attention. I tried to get pics but she was squirming too much. I'll see if my roommate can help me when he gets off work later. But for now, should I be concerned?

Without pictures, no way to really know. Rat fuzzies will work fine. Some people do argue the less calcium etc but I have raised almost all of my snakes on fuzzy rats as their first food and it seems those snakes grew faster than the ones I fed on mice. It probably is just the fact that rats have more "meat" per say for the size. Just feed off the pinkies, you can give her 2 if 1 isn't enough. A lot of people double up on smaller prey they got left plus sometimes your snake will end up in an "inbetween" size like I have had many times. During those times, I just double up on the smaller size food until they are big enough to easily take the next size up. Better to feed too small than too big especially for a boa.

Also I feed my boas once every week until they are about 1.5 years old, then I drop it to 2 weeks untl about 3 years old, then down to every 3-4 weeks although Rosey gets food about every 2-3 weeks cause she is always hungry even though I should be hard and fast about her. Also avoid feeding old or "jumbo" feeders as those usually are retired breeders or old rodents which have a higher fat content in them and boas don't digest fat well. Stick to medium or large rats. She should be good on large rats for a VERY long time and after that if you want you can feed rabbits.

Also has Muriel taken a poop since you've had her? Did it look normal? It wasn't all runny or smelled REALLY bad, like dry heaving bad? Maybe get a warm wet paper towel and gently try and wipe the vent area to see if is maybe dried on poop? Has she just shed? Sometimes babies will be in a rush to get out of shed and they will actually tear the membrane a little in the vent as the skin inside the vent also comes off in the shed(a little, not like a whole tube or anything). You will sometimes see a little blood on the shed at the vent area. Its normal and should be fine, just check the vent and make sure its not bleeding. As they get older, it stops happening and it only happens on some babies, not all.

Oh and to be clear, most boas can be started off on mouse hoppers or rat fuzzies right out of mom.

Nearly impossible to get pics, haha.

Checked today and her vent looks better, a little dirty at best. I haven't seen a poop yet, though- I'll keep an eye out. She hasn't shed yet either. But I think I was mostly being paranoid.

Just a couple of pics to share today. It was so cute to catch her parascoping. I've noticed she's very active in the evenings around 5:00-6:00pm when the sunlight spills into my room.

http://i.imgur.com/ijfJ4kR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/29CgSkv.jpg

Love the pics, she is adorable!

She's so gorgeous!

She's lovely ♥

Enjoy how tiny she is. I got Cy when he was almost 1 month old and he was so little, only 64g. But I swear he started growing right before my eyes. He is almost 4x the size of when I got him and he's 10 months old.

What a gorgeous little girl!! I love that periscoping picture it is just perfect :D

Thank you, everyone!

Today was not a great day. My old dog had to be put to sleep. He lived at my mom's house and I moved out a while ago, but I'd still visit him. He was there during my childhood so this is a big loss. Love you, Pepper.
http://i.imgur.com/jkDnipY.jpg


I cheered up a little when I caught Muriel doing this. I was lucky enough to snap a couple pics before she fell- good thing aspen is soft!

http://i.imgur.com/rR5DVqG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rQEbtGg.jpg

Spider snake, spider snake
does whatever a spider snake does...

What in the world is she holding onto.... is she really just clinging to the top like a spider?

She somehow wedged herself between the edge of the glass and the screen top, which kind of overlaps a bit. She couldn't stay up there for very long!

Lmao that is awesome

Sorry to hear about Pepper.:( I know how tough that is. I have my own personal pet cemetery in my backyard.

Don't worry about falls from within in cage. Those are nothing. And these guys are tough. My Ball climbed up the wall and pulled a lamp fixture out of the wall over 7 ft up! She hit the floor and kept on trucking. :rolleyes:

yes thats so true... they can fall from so high, and then they sit there and look around like "wasent me" and continue with what they were doing

I'm still waiting to get my first snake (bp) and I now want a bci thanks a lot

They're hard to resist, madelion! I love ball pythons, but you can't beat the bci's personality. I never thought I'd own such an adventurous snake! Really looking forward to a growth spurt. I'm starting to believe more and more that she'll be just like one big, adorable lap dog... and I'm already missing the days when I had a dog in my life. Oh, to dream!

Last Sunday she ate her first fuzzy after a two-week hunger strike. She just wouldn't touch the pinkies, so I gave up and bought the appropriately sized prey. Still, it was very time-consuming getting her to eat it. I think I jiggled the thing in front of her nose for half an hour. Just like the pinkie, she nuzzled it and swayed a bit, but it was like she didn't understand what she was supposed to do to get it in her mouth. I warmed it up three times and still nothing. Finally I did the grooviest zombie dance I could think of, and she struck. I hope the next feeding won't be so complicated!

I set a piece of display wood I'd gotten at a pet store on the bar stool next to my computer so she could hang out with me for a bit. It was a rainy day, but the apartment was warm and she seemed comfortable.

http://i.imgur.com/AQrTojp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vfUDAcq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WmX4Ggm.jpg

Sometimes snakes can take a bit of persuasion to get to eat. Lol As she gets older and eats more meals she may not require so much work to feed.

My retic's first rat required me to heat the head and do the dance twice for her to eat. She wrapped but then just gave up trying to find it. Waiting to see how her next feeding goes.

I remember how different my BCI was from the ball python, they're quite different, and they're easy to get hooked on for sure!


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Some snakes are work to get to eat. Rosey slams rats like a champ and always has since a baby. Dottie slams rats harder than Rosey....and shes a BP. Vicky is the polite one who grabs her mouse, squeezes it, then cuddles with it and sniffs it's butt and face. Then she looks around for awhile. Then after about 15 mins of the hugging/cuddling game, she eats it. What I have noticed is if I leave her alone with the mouse, she eventually will find the head and eat it. Just don't create outside stimuli that will distract her.

My ball python is a little like your Vicky, Sauzo. He's ferocious when he strikes (I fear for my hand sometimes) but after a few undisturbed minutes, he'll loosen up and sniff it for a while, sometimes look around as if to check if anyone is watching him. He'll do that for a bit until he decides to find the head and eat it. I'm interested to see what Muriel's response will be like when I feed her in a few hours.

Muriel had a very bad feeding last night. As usual, it took a while for her to strike. The fuzzy I gave her had a gaping belly (I accidentally tore it during handling) so that was my first mistake. When she struck, she ended up with the top of her head inside the mouse's stomach. I thought she would let go and recoil around it properly so I left the room for a minute to clean and put away the feeding tongs. When I came back she was thrashing everywhere with her face still inside the mouse. She ended up submerged in her water dish a couple of times. I went and grabbed the tongs and quickly pulled the mouse off. She was so freaked out she started climbing the glass walls of her cage and it was kind of like she was frantically trying to get to me. I took her out and held her and eventually she calmed down, but she kept opening and closing her mouth like she was trying to realign her jaw. She kept her head up the whole night.

i checked on her this morning before work and she looked alright, wasn't holding her head up against the glass. I feel awful for how irresponsible I was. I was so scared after it happened and I'm worried she won't want to eat again, it was hard enough trying to get her to take her food before. I'll be watching her closely for a bit, make sure she's alright. I think she might have swallowed some water.

Aww poor girl. I've had those kind of days but usually just something like one of them trying to a rat butt first. Nothing that dramatic. Good thing Muriel is mellow again.

http://i.imgur.com/94YoW3T.jpg

Back to her usual, goofy self. This was taken during one of her breaks- not two minutes earlier she was playing spider-snake all over her cage. Hard not to giggle when she fell a couple of times. The spider life does not suit her, but damnit, if that's her dream then who's to stop her from achieving it? At the top of the glass there you can see an ugly smear from the mouse innards she got everywhere during her panic attack. Definitely going to clean out her cage soon. The T8 from Animal Plastics arrived a few days ago. I ordered a pretty TV stand to set it on top of and as soon as that arrives, I'll start assembling her new home.

Unfortunately, I live in a small apartment with two other people and the only place I can keep my snakes are in my bedroom. With the size of this new cage and how big she's getting already, it looks like I may not have the room for my ball python anymore. I thought about stacking two T8's, but to be honest I'm not allowed to have exotic pets in my apartment (don't worry, there are so many units here that the landlords don't spend any time checking for stuff like this and if worse did come to pass, I know my parents would take her in) and a snake condo isn't exactly inconspicuous. He's a sweetheart, never once struck at me. I adore him, but keeping him and Muriel in the same room for a few years is not going to work out. She's already outgrown her 10 gallon so I know this T8 has to house her first, and I can't imagine where I'd put his 50 gallon terrarium. This decision makes me sad, but I know I'll feel better about it if I can find him a loving home.

http://i.imgur.com/cZPgmAs.jpg

And now she's done being an earthworm and back to being spider-snake.

Well babies are supposed to start out in 20 gallons, so naturally 10 wouldn't last long. Conservatively fed, you shouldn't have a largeish (5'-6') snake until it's 3-4 years old. Mine grew a bit faster than some were comfortable with, and even he didn't reach 6' until he was 3 years old. So the T8 should last 3-4 years at least, or whenever she exceeds 6' (t8's are the 4'x2' ones right?).


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Sounds like a wild feeding experience. Don't let it freak you out. It's just one of those types of steps in the learning curve we all go through. Glad all is well now. :)

That is going to be me tomorrow at the reptile show in Michigan. I have had a Ball Python for a year and want to get a BCC.
Congrats!

Honestly I would just get 2 T8s and stack em. The footprint isn't going to be that much bigger and a T8 will last a ball python forever even a large female. The T8 for Muriel will be a toss up depending on her genetics and how big the parents were. I've talked to people who have Surinames that are only 6-7' at 10 years old and other guys who have Suris the same size. So it really depends. Regardless though the T8 will last her at least 3 years as I got my big BCI girl Rosey in a Pro-Line 4x2 and she is 3 years old and 6'. She has been in it since she was a baby at 16". Me personally though, I'm going to get Vicky a T13 as I want more depth in the cage and then just get Dottie a T10. The T8 is a great cage but the Pro-Line I got Rosey in now is 14" high and getting her out sometimes is a pain so I couldn't imagine trying to get a 6' boa out of a 12" high cage no matter how calm they are.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

Sometimes snakes can take a bit of persuasion to get to eat. Lol As she gets older and eats more meals she may not require so much work to feed.

My retic's first rat required me to heat the head and do the dance twice for her to eat. She wrapped but then just gave up trying to find it. Waiting to see how her next feeding goes.

I remember how different my BCI was from the ball python, they're quite different, and they're easy to get hooked on for sure!


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And then you get the occasional batcrap crazy ball python who thinks they're some sort of reticulated python or indigo snake and they come flying out of their cage and towards your face or your pet cat. (I can't be the only one with a BP who's an absolute nutjob, am I?)

Oh, and Fincayra, your boa is very active! I got mine expecting the same thing and I ended up with a pet rock who's an even better rock than my balls are. lol How big is Muriel now? She looks like she could still hang in that 10 gal for a few months longer. I also second what Sauzo said; just get two T8's and stack them. When in doubt, just stack stack stack! Learning to play 3D tetris is just part of being a reptile keeper! ;)