Thermostat question

I just got a Hydrofarm thermostat for my zoomed uth and I'm wondering how high I need to turn it up. I have the uth under the tank with the thermostat probe in between the uth and tank then I have repticarpet( only on the warm side, reptibark on the rest) and under the carpet I have the acurite probe glued to the glass. Right now I have the thermostat set at 102 and the ir gun is barely reading 88. Is that normal? I guess as long as it hits temp on top of the carpet it doesn't matter. The rest of the temps in the tank are good btw.

With plastic tubs, I have mine set at 95f to maintain a hotspot range of 87-89f above the substrate (paper towels) and 91-93f under it on the tubs surface with my flexwatt heat tape. It's not a totally accurate tstat, and in addition it's an on/off style that drops by about 4 degrees before it cycles back on. Gonna upgrade to a herpstat in the near future because I'm not nearly happy with that wide a range in fluctuations. Hydrofarms are definitely a "it works for now," deal.

I just don't want it to settle in hrs later and once I'm gone the temps jump up. At least he can't get to the glass. I'm just surprised the carpet isn't soaking up more of that heat. As long as the surface temp is fine I don't care I was just wondering if it sounds abnormal like I'm doing something wrong

Well the Hydrofarm has a safety switch of 108F. Once it reaches that it will shut down so I wouldn't worry about burning your snake. As for setting the temp, as long as you are 100% positive positive positive that the snake cant get under the carpet, then use the temp gun and turn the T-stat up a couple degrees until the temp gun reaches the temp you want on top. As a general rule though, you want the bottom of the tank closest to the UTH to be the place you read from as if a BP can dig down, it will dig down so you want the lowest and closest spot to be the hottest spot for safety. I actually quit using UTHs since I use aspen as my substrate and use about 2" deep so I just use a CHE as the only heat source for both my baby sunglow BCI and my BP. My big BCI is in a Pro-Line HDPE cage so I use a RHP with her which will be the same thing as soon as I have the spare cash to order 2 more PVC cages.

Oh you can test it also, just boil some water and use your temp gun to see when it gets up to 110F or so and then dip the probe in and see if the Hydrofarm turns off. I have never had to deal with an overheat on mine.

Yeah I don't see him being able to burrow down. It's repticarpet held down by his hide surrounded by reptibark. The only carpet showing is in his hide. It just seems weird to me the glass and carpet would block that much heat. Even the thermometer probe on the inside against the glass only reads 96 when the thermostat is at 102. I could take pics but I'm positive I set it up properly

Never doubt the digging ability of a ball python. He could easily dig down through that reptibark. The hide though will probably keep him from getting to the glass. The glass isn't blocking the heat, if anything it is absorbing it and amplifying it. You heat blockage is the repticarpet. The t-stat probe might be off a couple degrees or the air pocket where the probe is between the tank and UTH is warmer than the glass as the UTH is spreading a lot more heat over a much bigger surface. Regardless though, maybe bump the t-stat up 3F and see if that bumps the carpet temp up to 90F. As long as your ambient temps are good, i wouldn't worry too much about the UTH. I personally don't even use UTHs and just use CHEs or RHPs exclusively in my PVC and glass tanks and they all work fine.

What you are seeing is normal. Glass takes a long time to heat up (and cool off for that matter) this is called thermal mass, basically a heavier the object is that is being heated the longer it takes to change. Tanks have lots of weight so lots of thermal mass. Tubs have no weigh and no mass. A hydrofarm on/off stat is not a good idea for a tub at all. It heats up and cools off too quickly. It is ok for a tank where the spikes the stat causes are controlled by the mass of the glass.

The issue is complex so there are too many variables to make a blanket statement. The type of heater (sounds like it is a low density unit that caps around 100ºF) the thickness of the glass, the temperature of the room. Are all large influences in how much deviation you have between interior temps and probe temp.

The big question is the room temps. This with a glass tank will have a large influence on how much heat loss you have.

With a UTH the room temp also is going to the regulation for the cool end temps. Typically this is the first combination in beginner issues. The room is too cold. This usually leads to the need of a secondary heater that heats the air, like a CHE, or a bulb of some kind, (although a IR heat lamp is different somewhat). You will hear that CHE 'suck' the humidity from the air this is from a lack of understanding of RH. Clearly glass does not absorb water. RH is relative humidity, relative to temperature, it is expressed as a %, a % of the maximum amount of water vapour the air can support. This changes dramatically with temperature. Any heater that changes the ambient air temperature will change the Rh heaters that don't heat the air don't.

basic chart of how much RH you need at different air temps.
76ºF = 69.3% RH
77ºF = 67.3% RH
78ºF = 65.0% RH
79ºF = 63.0% RH
80ºF = 61.0% RH * rounded up.
81ºF = 59.2% RH
82ºF = 57.4% RH
83ºF = 55.7% RH
84ºF = 54.0% RH

Well, not exactly weight so much as density, but yeah close enough.

I'm keeping my ambient temp on hot side around 83 degrees and cold side around 78-80 day. Night the whole tank levels off to about 76-78 with the hot hide being a constant temp day and night. I think it's just gonna take some tweeking and I'll get it. My humidity is at 50% and bumps to 70 when I spray and slowly lowers through the day. I have the top 80% blocked with foil tape( on the outside of course). I just notice he's not using his hot hide so it makes me wonder even though when I check the ambient temp of his hide its 90 and surface temp with the gun is getting up to my 90 deg mark. I had to bump up the thermostat to 103 and I'm getting anywhere from 88-90.5 with cooler patches throughout

You don't need to spray the tank. 50% humidity should be plenty. I keep all my guys 50-60% and they all have great 1 piece sheds.

It is very very odd to have a gradient with the ambient air temp. Air should be moving and mixing causing a consistent temp through. This indicates to me a mistake in reading the ambient temps. likely the probe is being effected directly by a heater. I would guess the ambient to be around 79 ish.

If this is correct I would suggest a change in the amount of standing water or the way it ventilates. Having openings on either end of a closed middle often increase ventilation and placing the water bow on the cool side increases the air flow over the water and in turn RH.

Lizard licks yes absolutely true, but there is so much denial of the physical laws of nature and poor understanding of basic thermodynamics, that I usually simplify when I can.

I have a gradient ambient air temp in my glass tanks but I also have the ventilation kind of set up like my Pro-Line HDPE cage is where there is a slight gap on the cool side and the CHE is on the hot side with about a 1" gap around the dome so the cool air settles in on the cool side, flows over to the warm side and rises up where the CHE is and the escape is regulated by the air gap around the dome. I personally am still trying to figure out how Boaphile cages create air circulation as they are vented around the door, the tops are completely sealed so I would imagine air would get stagnant in them but that's a different topic.

As to the OP, I wouldn't worry about getting it exactly perfect. As long as you get it close. I mean in nature they aren't living in a 90F perfect environment. Heck when I was a kid, I had a ball python that I used a 55 gallon tank with a screen top and heat lamps and his humidity was only room humidity and he used to have horrible sheds but you know what, that gal went from a hatchling to an over 4' female and ate all the time and was fat as a cow. They are pretty hardy and a lot people seem to think they are fragile like fine china. the only thing is you got to regulate belly heat as burns will mess them up which is why I don't use belly heat for any of snakes. Think I have used belly heat once for my pied girl and then I dumped it as I use aspen and the belly heat did squat with 2" aspen.

Does it really matter if there's a gradient in ambient temps? He has a hot side, a cool side and a baskings spot and as long as these temps are in acceptable range he'll thermo regulate and there shouldn't be an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a glass tank, it's not gonna be perfect, but if I'm giving him every opportunity to thermo regulate with proper temps I think it should be ok. I have four thermometers and 2 thermostats. One star controlling the uth and one the Che. I have the stat probe for the uth inbetween the pad and the glass and the thermo probe directly above it glued to the tank under the substrate for the Che I have on the cold side I have the stat probe and therm probe next to each other glued to the glass about an inch from the bottom in the cold side hide. It's set to 78 Bc the hide will stay around that while the surrounding cold side stays around 80. The Che is on a dimmer also and only about 25% turned up so it's nice soft heat. I have an acurite in the middle reading middle temp and hot hide temp and a basking light on 25% making a spot on top of his hot hide 85 and the surrounding 83 a thermo probe is an inch above the hot side ground measuring ambient temp. I also have an it thermometer gun that I check surface temps throughout the enclosure. I have all the tools I'm just trying to see if there are little tweaks I can do to make things even better. Thanks for everyone's responses! Keep me coming!!

Btw, my room gets very little natural light and it's chilly during fall and winter which is why I have secondary heat and lighting sources.

Yes it does matter the only way to have a gradient in ambient air temps is there is a dangerously low amount of air moving basically it is 100% stagnate. It is close to impossible to achieve however to have the air stratified completely. It means likely you have not been actually measuring the air temp at all. It is literally the temp of just the air not influenced by a heater typically a gradient heater that heat objects not air.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

Yes it does matter the only way to have a gradient in ambient air temps is there is a dangerously low amount of air moving basically it is 100% stagnate. It is close to impossible to achieve however to have the air stratified completely. It means likely you have not been actually measuring the air temp at all. It is literally the temp of just the air not influenced by a heater typically a gradient heater that heat objects not air.

---

so how do I measure the ambient temp without the influence of the heaters? I'm measuring away from the main beam of heat coming from them. The amount of difference temps are only a few degrees off so it's not like it's a serious problem. Right now it's 853 pm and my lights are off and the Che is on and the temps are 79 ambient hot side 77 in the middle and 77 on the cool side wight the Che keeping the temp up. The ambient inside the hot hide right now is 85 and surface temp is at 89-91 and the cool hide temp is 77.5. I'm just getting confused Bc I feel like I have good temps and now your adding a completely new element to the equation. If you could tell me how to measure ambient temp properly that would help a ton!

Ideally they should be measured from ⅓ up the side dead centre of the enclosure. However most over head heat sources emit long wave IR. This means like a light it travels from the face out in all directions and the ambient temp should not be in line of sight (straight line) of the heater. Sometimes this means blocking the thermometer with a some paper (white paper) It is shocking how much this can change a reading. My arboreal enclosures will alter 8ºF just by shielding the thermometer from the RHP. Would this happen with ambient temps? No paper will not stop air from moving. You don't have to constantly monitor them just check during set up and then periodically. I do every week.

It is likely your ambients are 77ºF add the error to the thermometer +/-2ºF (you said you had an accurite? is it one of the newer ones?) so 75-79ºF somewhere inside here likely (the older models was +/-2ºC close to 4ºF in that case 73-81ºF). Personally I hate seeing ambients below 75ºF for long, if this is the true ambient temp you are closer to one end of the range adding a couple of degrees would buy more breathing room.

There is a theory (unverified at this point) that low ambients inconjuction with higher hot spots are responsible for burns. The ambient air temp is a contributing factor in thermal regulation. It is known that animals kept with very low ambients regardless of the hot spot being spot on often get sick. It is also clear that animals can be kept successfully with no hot spot at all. It is likely that ambients are more important that any other temp.