"Kingsnake Eats Ball Python" on YouTube

I discovered a recent video on YouTube in which a young Ball Python is fed live to a Kingsnake (looks like a Florida intergrade). I was quite beside myself.

It hurts me to know that such an unthinkable act could even be conceivable... Never mind that such an encounter is virtually impossible in the wild...I suppose there are enough videos where rodents and young birds are fed to reptiles with an apparent perverse fascination, but this one just feels a bit too close to home. I actually lost sleep over it. I won't repost the link, but I felt compelled to call attention to it.

I don't know who "Ignacio Torres" is but, at least in my mind, he's a sociopath.

Not really any different than us feeding rats to snakes.

Thanks for not posting the link. I may have been curious enough to click on it then regret it.

It's hard to think that your dear pets are used as feeders for lager snakes. However, it just the cycle of life.

I definitely wouldn't want to see videos about it but I understand it.

It's what King snakes do, I doubt anyone here would decide to use one of their BP's as a feeder, I certainly wouldn't, but owners of other snakes likely could. I've seen normals at reptile shows for $20 so who know's perhaps king owners like to provide a snake to theirs every so often. The last repticon show I went to a few weeks back had a guy selling live rabbits right across from a breeder with 12 foot Retics, I'm sure the folks on a rabbit owners/breeders forum would pass out if they saw all the YT videos of Retics feeding.

Ty for not posting the link. I try really hard to not look at that stuff. I know it happens, but still. There was a guy on one of the BP facebook groups who posted a bunch of cobra eating BP pics right before he got banned. :taz: I wouldn't post such things of my snake eating mice/rats on those groups, that's just rude and cruel! It makes me sad to see anything like this... I too lose a lot of sleep when I see these things... :( I don't even like feeding live but it's what got my girl to eat again, and I couldn't put my ethics about the situation in the way of her well being.

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I was quite beside myself.

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So are rat keepers!

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It hurts me to know that such an unthinkable act could even be conceivable... Never mind that such an encounter is virtually impossible in the wild

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Probably what rat owners think too, a Ball Python would NEVER meet the kind of rat we feed in captivity either.

It's the circle of life, snake eat mice and rats, and some snake eat other snakes.

What would you suggest a snake eating snake be fed?

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at least in my mind, he's a sociopath.

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So are you in someone else's mind that does not keep snake.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Not really any different than us feeding rats to snakes.

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Exactly my thought. Rats at least have personalities and a better handle on intelligence. It's just a snake and they do it in the wild. It's not a human baby!

King snakes, indigos, some cobras... lots of snakes eat other snakes to live, and keepers of those snakes have to source food for them. Lots of youtube videos exist of snakes eating live rats, mice, chicks... yet for other people these are pets that they would never ever think of feeding to another animal. Doesn't make this gentlemen a sociopath at all. He's just documenting feeding behavior of his pet for people who might be interested in seeing it.

Generally speaking I don't make or view videos of captive live feeding since I feel these videos promote the wrong kind of interest. Note that nearly none of these videos are about how to safely feed live; they're only about the strange fascination of watching something kill something else.

That being said, it's kind of hypocritical of us as a community to shame people who occasionally feed a snake to another snake since, as others have said, the mice, rat, and rabbit communities feel the exact same way when we feed our snakes and we brush them off more often than not. I personally might prefer the snakes be killed before such a feeding, but I'll also admit that euthanizing a snake isn't the easiest or cheapest way to go, and I don't even know if these kinds of snakes would be willing to eat a dead ball python.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So are rat keepers!

Probably what rat owners think too, a Ball Python would NEVER meet the kind of rat we feed in captivity either.

It's the circle of life, snake eat mice and rats, and some snake eat other snakes.

What would you suggest a snake eating snake be fed?

So are you in someone else's mind that does not keep snake.

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Yes.

What she said.

I don't believe this is a rat lovers' forum..It's a snake lovers forum if I'm not mistaken..


In my opinion, anyone who does this to snakes in captivity is circumventing more practical solutions in the interest of a morbid curiosity. What other reason could there be, when Kingsnakes will eat other prey items - like rats and mice - which are bred for THAT purpose? If snakes in the diet are required for Kingsnakes to be healthy, then I'm willing to take that on advisement. But if it's unnecessary, than so too is the action in the video. Perhaps I'm biased....I just like any kind of snake, and will do anything I can to help in their preservation.


Perhaps also the feeding in question is a passing reference to a diminished regard for the worth of "Normals..." (hey, they're only $20 a pop at Repticon...) Maybe Normals are in fact seen by some herp enthusiasts/breeders as a "food source" for other cannabilistic species Because they have a lesser attached pricetag, maybe they're "more expendable." I guess other philosophical issues tie in...do we regard our snakes as "adopted guests/family members," or do we simply see them as our "personal property?" Perhaps if you owned a dozen children (or a dozen slaves), it would be less painful to see one sacrificed to a coyote in the interest of "seeing what it looked like," or "that's just what Coyotes might do in the wild" than if you had one or just a few. You might even decide to feed the one who's doing less well in school (or produces less in the fields), and thus represents a less valuable investment in tending the family farm, or looking after you when you're ready for the old folks' home. Pardon any sanctimonious impressions, but I love my pet, and consider the one that was fed as "family."

Well all these people say it happens in the wild are getting on my nerves guess what it's not the wild I'm pretty sure they wasn't outside just my thought

Not really a big deal, if someone wants to spend over 15 bucks to feed something weird to his snake that's just his stupid decision. Would you be this level of butt hurt if it was a less desirable species like a garter or rat snake? I'd bet the answer is no.

It's a snake not a child, don't be stupid.

Thank you for NOT posting the link. It always irritates me when people post pictures of things swallowing ball pythons on this forum. Yes, snakes eat other snakes, everything has to eat, everybody knows this. But posting pictures or videos or even links to ball pythons being eaten on a forum that is dedicated to keeping ball pythons as pets is just low class. I would never go to a forum dedicated to keeping rats as pets and post pictures of my snakes eating. That would be unforgivably insensitive.

I agree with what was said about the potential to spark the wrong kind of interest. Although that may not have been the original intention.

I see rats and mice as patients from time to time, and rats in particular are quite personable and intelligent. I feel many reptiles and other animals have some type of personality. No two are alike.

I guess it really depends on people's perception. There are some people who feel that crate training a puppy is cruel.

I personally wouldn't post any pics or videos of my collection of BPs eating. That's just me.




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Comparing someone feeding a BP to a kingsnake to someone feeding a human to a coyote is a little much. I mean, that's just a little ridiculous.

As a garter keeper I'm fairly used to seeing other people feeding cheap wc babies that look exactly like the ones I raise to other snake-eating snakes. As long as it's done responsibly (such as avoiding rare garter species) I don't want to watch it, but I don't have a problem. In fact I have about five ftt babies in my freezer right now due to the fact that I often get rescue calls and I wanted to have something on hand in case I end up with a snake-eating snake at some point.

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

for other cannabilistic species

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Let me stop you right there. This is not cannibalism, not even close. A kingsnake is about as closely related to a ball python as wolf is to a domesticated cat. Cannibalism would be if a kingsnake ate another kingsnake, or a ball python ate another ball python, this is not cannibalism.

I never had problems getting any of my Kingsnakes or Milksnakes to eat mice when I had them in the collection,even if we take it to the realm of "hey, a snake needs to eat" what's the point of feeding a $20 snake to a $20 snake?

Ophiophagus snakes are prone to fatty liver disease, obesity and other dietary based ailments when fed a diet that they have not evolved to thrive on.

The nutritional profiles of rats and mice versus snakes are completely different with respect to fat.

Clelia and Boiruna dying early, dispholidines exhibiting liposarcomas....all examples of snakes NOT thriving when fed a diet that they do not eat in the wild.

Chew on this people....I regularly buy corn snake babies to feed to my ophiophagus snakes, and if the price of normal ball pythons dropped enough, I'd feed those as well. I breed anoles to feed to my ophiophagus and lizard eating species.

Would I post pics of it on Youtube?

No.

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

I don't believe this is a rat lovers' forum..It's a snake lovers forum if I'm not mistaken, and we also have members of this forum keeping rats as pets.


In my opinion, anyone who does this to snakes in captivity is circumventing more practical solutions in the interest of a morbid curiosity. What other reason could there be, when Kingsnakes will eat other prey items - like rats and mice - which are bred for THAT purpose? If snakes in the diet are required for Kingsnakes to be healthy, then I'm willing to take that on advisement. But if it's unnecessary, than so too is the action in the video. Perhaps I'm biased....I just like any kind of snake, and will do anything I can to help in their preservation.


Perhaps also the feeding in question is a passing reference to a diminished regard for the worth of "Normals..." (hey, they're only $20 a pop at Repticon...) Maybe Normals are in fact seen by some herp enthusiasts/breeders as a "food source" for other cannabilistic species Because they have a lesser attached pricetag, maybe they're "more expendable." I guess other philosophical issues tie in...do we regard our snakes as "adopted guests/family members," or do we simply see them as our "personal property?" Perhaps if you owned a dozen children (or a dozen slaves), it would be less painful to see one sacrificed to a coyote in the interest of "seeing what it looked like," or "that's just what Coyotes might do in the wild" than if you had one or just a few. You might even decide to feed the one who's doing less well in school (or produces less in the fields), and thus represents a less valuable investment in tending the family farm, or looking after you when you're ready for the old folks' home. Pardon any sanctimonious impressions, but I love my pet, and consider the one that was fed as "family."

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You are right it is a reptile forum which means for all reptiles including those eating other reptiles.

You called someone feeding a snake to another a sociopath just because YOU happen to keep that species.

Expend your knowledge about other species and dietery requirements and try not to be as judgemental.

As for the rest of your argument it makes you lose any credit you might have had.

I keep BP (among other things) and the only thing I disagree with is posting feeding videos regardless of the prey other than that everything has to eat.

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Originally Posted by Ransack

I never had problems getting any of my Kingsnakes or Milksnakes to eat mice when I had them in the collection,even if we take it to the realm of "hey, a snake needs to eat" what's the point of feeding a $20 snake to a $20 snake?

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Long before the BP morph explosion hit they were routinely used as feeder snakes for eastern indigoes and king cobras. Also, a feeder BP isn't $20, usually males are sold off in large lots by the big breeders for a few bucks apiece.

Also, where do you think the kinked babies and stillborn babies go? There's a king cobra keeper near me who will pay for kinked babies and stills to feed to his cobra. Better that they get fed off than thrown in the trash.

I saw a show on Anancondas where they caught an Anaconda trying to eat a boa on a branch but the boa fell off the branch and the anaconda couldn't swallow it while it was hanging so lucky for the boa the anaconda got it loose from its teeth and the boa dropped to the ground. As others have said, its just the circle of Life. Sure its not pretty but anyone who owns the animal that is getting eaten is going to be upset, well some people. Me personally, im unphased by that stuff as I view it as the circle of life.

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

I don't believe this is a rat lovers' forum..It's a snake lovers forum if I'm not mistaken..

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Many snake keepers love the heck out of rats, myself included. I kept pet rats prior to and in the early years of keeping snakes, and I miss my rats dearly. But I also enjoy keeping snakes. So I buy rats for them.

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Originally Posted by Alicia

Many snake keepers love the heck out of rats, myself included. I kept pet rats prior to and in the early years of keeping snakes, and I miss my rats dearly. But I also enjoy keeping snakes. So I buy rats for them.

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I wish the main feeders were hamsters I always hated them little biters, I've been bit by a whole mess of hamsters and I've never been but by a feeder mouse or rat tbh.

I hate mice. I've been bit I don't know how many times plus they pee, poop and chew on everything......evil little rodents. Rats are pretty cool though, pretty smart.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Ophiophagus snakes are prone to fatty liver disease, obesity and other dietary based ailments when fed a diet that they have not evolved to thrive on.


The nutritional profiles of rats and mice versus snakes are completely different with respect to fat.


Clelia and Boiruna dying early, dispholidines exhibiting liposarcomas....all examples of snakes NOT thriving when fed a diet that they do not eat in the wild.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Expend your knowledge about other species and dietery requirements and try not to be as judgemental.


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I keep BP (among other things) and the only thing I disagree with is posting feeding videos regardless of the prey other than that everything has to eat.

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Cobras are in the genus Ophiophagus, Kingsnakes in the genus Lampropeltis. It's unclear to me whether data shows that members in the latter genus definitively suffer adverse consequences when members of the Order Serpentes are excluded from their dietary regimen.

Kingsnakes will eat almost anything living that fits in the tube, that much I know. I'd probably also criticize the owner of a Burmese Python for feeding it a small mixed-breed dog, but that also might be construed as being judgmental...

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

Cobras are in the genus Ophiophagus, Kingsnakes in the genus Lampropeltis. It's unclear to me whether data shows that members in the latter genus definitively suffer adverse consequences when members of the Order Serpentes are excluded from their dietary regimen.

Kingsnakes will eat almost anything living that fits in the tube, that much I know. I'd probably also criticize the owner of a Burmese Python for feeding it a small mixed-breed dog, but that also might be construed as being judgmental...

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Look up the definition of ophiophagus. Then re read your post.

In other words, what does the "ophiophagus" in ophiophagus Hannah mean?

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

I don't know who "Ignacio Torres" is but, at least in my mind, he's a sociopath.

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That would make you a sociopath in the minds of people who keep rodents as pets.;)

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Look up the definition of ophiophagus. Then re read your post.

In other words, what does the "ophiophagus" in ophiophagus Hannah mean?

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King Cobras (as opposed to "true" cobras) occur in their own genus, Ophiophagus - which refers to "snake eater." For King Cobras, snakes are described as a preferred food source (though rodents and lizards will apparently also be taken).

I can't find much in the literature that confirms health deficiencies in Genus Lampropeltis when other snakes are unavailable in their diet (or King Cobras for that matter). If it's out there, I'd be happy to read it. And I'd expect fledgling (or otherwise) Kingsnake keepers would appreciate seeing it too. Thanks !

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Look up the definition of ophiophagus. Then re read your post.

In other words, what does the "ophiophagus" in ophiophagus Hannah mean?

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I should marry her? :P

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I saw a show on Anancondas where they caught an Anaconda trying to eat a boa on a branch but the boa fell off the branch and the anaconda couldn't swallow it while it was hanging so lucky for the boa the anaconda got it loose from its teeth and the boa dropped to the ground. As others have said, its just the circle of Life. Sure its not pretty but anyone who owns the animal that is getting eaten is going to be upset, well some people. Me personally, im unphased by that stuff as I view it as the circle of life.

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Did the boa actually live? It should have been dead if the anaconda was already swallowing it. Or did the falling off the branch occur during the killing period?