2 New BP's

So my wife was born 24 years ago tomorrow. And she has been aching for a dog.... But being in the pet shop se spied some BP's. She is completely new to snakes. Iv been exposed to snakes of all kinds my entire life. Just never had any of my own. Being a soldier, these are a little too temperamental for all of the moves. Now were in the last place I will be posted to, or at least thats my plan :)

We have 2 18" BP's, I have not been able to really identify their pattern. We have them in a 20 gal tank. that is 12" x 12" x 40"-ish. Its got aspen substrate, water dish, UTH, fake plant, and a little cave. We have had them a little over 18 hours now, and they seem happy and active. No striking, no "S" shape pose, and will slither up onto my hand. I had to add a heat lamp as the mat just wasn't cutting it last night. I life in Victoria BC, so its a fairly warm compared to the rest of Canada.

Is there anything that I should have covered??

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Originally Posted by Hotwire

So my wife was born 24 years ago tomorrow. And she has been aching for a dog.... But being in the pet shop se spied some BP's. She is completely new to snakes. Iv been exposed to snakes of all kinds my entire life. Just never had any of my own. Being a soldier, these are a little too temperamental for all of the moves. Now were in the last place I will be posted to, or at least thats my plan :)

We have 2 18" BP's, I have not been able to really identify their pattern. We have them in a 20 gal tank. that is 12" x 12" x 40"-ish. Its got aspen substrate, water dish, UTH, fake plant, and a little cave. We have had them a little over 18 hours now, and they seem happy and active. No striking, no "S" shape pose, and will slither up onto my hand. I had to add a heat lamp as the mat just wasn't cutting it last night. I life in Victoria BC, so its a fairly warm compared to the rest of Canada.

Is there anything that I should have covered??

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Theres several things. The two most important ones are do you have a thermostat on the UTH? If not turn it off until you get one; it can get too hot and your snakes will get burned Second, each snake should have its own enclosure with two hides; one on the cool side of the tank, the other on the warm side. How are you measuring humidity?

First off, thanks.

Second of all, when I bought the two snakes I was told that keeping them together during the transition time will help with the stress. I do have a second tank, and I will use it. As for the UTH, no I don't have a thermostat on it, I have a thermostat inside of the tank, one on each end and a Hygrometer in the centre. Like I said earlier, the UTH is unsatisfactory when it comes to its heating of the tank. I had to buy a heat lamp just to get it up to 80c. I understand the glass will be hot, as will the aspen over top of it. I visited a number of places today searching for the reptile carpet to put down to keep the snakes off of the glass, all of the stores told me they have never sold it. Use news paper.

Snakes are solitary animals, so being separated wouldn't cause them any stress in fact it would probably reduce stress. But, it's good that you have a second tank prepared:) correction- you have a thermometer in the tank. This measures temperature, while a thermostat controls the temperature. Even a lamp dimmer will work, if you want something more cost effective. 80 Celsius or Fahrenheit? 80 Celsius is extremely hot and will burn your snakes. The glass and substrate should not be hot, it should be slightly warm to the touch. You want the glass temp at around 90 f. These are just some of the basics, I will let the more experienced members go into detail. Good luck!


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Originally Posted by Hotwire

First off, thanks.

Second of all, when I bought the two snakes I was told that keeping them together during the transition time will help with the stress. I do have a second tank, and I will use it. As for the UTH, no I don't have a thermostat on it, I have a thermostat inside of the tank, one on each end and a Hygrometer in the centre. Like I said earlier, the UTH is unsatisfactory when it comes to its heating of the tank. I had to buy a heat lamp just to get it up to 80c. I understand the glass will be hot, as will the aspen over top of it. I visited a number of places today searching for the reptile carpet to put down to keep the snakes off of the glass, all of the stores told me they have never sold it. Use news paper.

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The glass shouldn't be hot; please turn the UTH off until it is regulated by a thermostat, you are risking your snakes life. The UTH will not heat the tank; it only provides a hot spot for the snake. Your snakes will burrow to get to the glass no matter what you use for substrate and they will get burned. It sounds like you have thermometers on each end; not the same as a thermostat as they only monitor temps not control them.

Yes Its 80f. The tank glass is only 80f. Iv measured it with a laser thermometer, the one I use for my parkerizing, and powder coating. Im looking forward to giving these a very happy home. And Im glad there is a place like this for me to get all the information I can. I do have to say though, I believe half of what I hear and less of what I read. I have read much of these same comments, but I have read much of the opposite as well. Like BP's are happy in pairs, and UTH will heat the tank to as much as you need. Claims like, its an UTH.... but you need to have it stuck to the side. I will take everyones advice, and apply it accordingly. Tonight I will take pictures of what I have so I can get more critique.

thank you again everyone.

Congrats on your new BP's do you have any pictures of them?

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Originally Posted by Hotwire

Yes Its 80f. The tank glass is only 80f. Iv measured it with a laser thermometer, the one I use for my parkerizing, and powder coating. Im looking forward to giving these a very happy home. And Im glad there is a place like this for me to get all the information I can. I do have to say though, I believe half of what I hear and less of what I read. I have read much of these same comments, but I have read much of the opposite as well. Like BP's are happy in pairs, and UTH will heat the tank to as much as you need. Claims like, its an UTH.... but you need to have it stuck to the side. I will take everyones advice, and apply it accordingly. Tonight I will take pictures of what I have so I can get more critique.

thank you again everyone.

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You are reading information from people who keep the same snakes as you but you don't believe what you read? Unregulated UTH burns are real; do a Google search for images, I wouldn't recommend doing it while eating as some of the pics are hard to look at.

I'm using UTH for now until my T10's show up; then I'll be switching to RHP only and no UTH. This information comes from the wonderful people on this site who have been raising balls a lot longer then I have.

So read what you want; believe what you want. There's a recent thread about one ball python eating another ball python while the owner was cleaning their enclosure and put them together for a short time. So it does happen.

Can you keep two snakes together; sure. Would I recommend it; no.

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Originally Posted by Stormy

You are reading information from people who keep the same snakes as you but you don't believe what you read? Unregulated UTH burns are real; do a Google search for images, I wouldn't recommend doing it while eating as some of the pics are hard to look at.

I'm using UTH for now until my T10's show up; then I'll be switching to RHP only and no UTH. This information comes from the wonderful people on this site who have been raising balls a lot longer then I have.

So read what you want; believe what you want. There's a recent thread about one ball python eating another ball python while the owner was cleaning their enclosure and put them together for a short time. So it does happen.

Can you keep two snakes together; sure. Would I recommend it; no.

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I am not saying I distrust anyone here, nor am I saying I know any better. Im saying that I gather the information, and sort out the most common and most sensible information and use it. Im new here, but Im not an idiot. This is going to be a learning process, and I completely accept that. No need to get hostile if I don't JUMP to your input and demands. :dance:

I will upload some pictures from my Camera this evening. Thank you everyone again!

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Originally Posted by Hotwire

I am not saying I distrust anyone here, nor am I saying I know any better. Im saying that I gather the information, and sort out the most common and most sensible information and use it. Im new here, but Im not an idiot. This is going to be a learning process, and I completely accept that. No need to get hostile if I don't JUMP to your input and demands. :dance:

I will upload some pictures from my Camera this evening. Thank you everyone again!

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I not getting hostile; just don't want to you to toast your snakes and pointing out the danger of housing two snakes together.

Check out the stickies in the BP Husbandry section; there's a thread dedicated to setting up a tank correctly.

I would suggest at least one more hide if not more since you have two snakes in one tank. Im definitely no expert but I've noticed my bp loves having both hides for different reasons. And also loves having something to climb on, even if it's barely used.

Congratulations and good luck!

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Originally Posted by Stormy

You are reading information from people who keep the same snakes as you but you don't believe what you read? Unregulated UTH burns are real; do a Google search for images, I wouldn't recommend doing it while eating as some of the pics are hard to look at.

I'm using UTH for now until my T10's show up; then I'll be switching to RHP only and no UTH. This information comes from the wonderful people on this site who have been raising balls a lot longer then I have.

So read what you want; believe what you want. There's a recent thread about one ball python eating another ball python while the owner was cleaning their enclosure and put them together for a short time. So it does happen.

Can you keep two snakes together; sure. Would I recommend it; no.

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I googled the snake burns; those poor snakes!I use a heat lamp and get tired of misting sometimes but i would rather do that than have my snake burned like that. Especially since I just use paper rowels for substrate.

I also saw the thread mentioned, and was shocked. Be careful.

Mines unplugged. Tomorrow Im getting a dimmer from home depot, and setting it to heat no more then 90f. Iv read this is a happy medium. I will be looking for or building a controller for the mat and the two lamps. There must be a method for misting automatically too. Ill figure it out.

Hydrofarm Heat Pad Thermostat on Amazon is a good thermostat; I'm currently using 4 of them to regulate my heat mats, work great and not a lot of money. Around $30.

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Originally Posted by Hotwire

Mines unplugged. Tomorrow Im getting a dimmer from home depot, and setting it to heat no more then 90f. Iv read this is a happy medium. I will be looking for or building a controller for the mat and the two lamps. There must be a method for misting automatically too. Ill figure it out.

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I just saw on a thread something about an automatic mister. Pet stores carry them. Also different substrate holds moisture better. I like paper towels because of the easy clean up and I haven't really read or seen any negative responses to using them other than they don't look the best.

Ok so Unless your housing kingsnakes with other snakes or much bigger snakes with smaller snakes.. Its really rare that you could loose a snake to the other one eating the snake. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i've been keeping snakes together for over 35 years mostly males with males and females with females and usually the same size and species. However i had an 8' red tailed boa with a 4' ball python for 10 years they did fantastic together. Yes its probably better to house them seperatly i'm just saying that unless your housing the wrong kind of snakes together and/or placing much bigger ones with much smaller ones the chances of that even happening is much slighter then some of the users commenting on make it out to be. I'm sure everybody will slam me for saying that however I've had a lot of experience with snakes in general and it is a good rule of thumb to keep them seperated but if you dont have the room and must keep them together make sure they are around the same size and species.

Loose coconut substrate holds humidity amazingly. Almost never have to mist.

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Originally Posted by Lynchman18

Ok so Unless your housing kingsnakes with other snakes or much bigger snakes with smaller snakes.. Its really rare that you could loose a snake to the other one eating the snake. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but i've been keeping snakes together for over 35 years mostly males with males and females with females and usually the same size and species. However i had an 8' red tailed boa with a 4' ball python for 10 years they did fantastic together. Yes its probably better to house them seperatly i'm just saying that unless your housing the wrong kind of snakes together and/or placing much bigger ones with much smaller ones the chances of that even happening is much slighter then some of the users commenting on make it out to be. I'm sure everybody will slam me for saying that however I've had a lot of experience with snakes in general and it is a good rule of thumb to keep them seperated but if you dont have the room and must keep them together make sure they are around the same size and species.

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The red tail didn't eat the ball? Wow that's quite a shock to me, I would have thought for sure that the poor little ball python was food.


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The thing about this site, and the internet in general, is that you have to sift through all of the parroted information (whether it be true or false), and try and learn from people who actually have experience dealing with the things they are talking about.

If you run an unregulated UTH, it may not currently be too hot to cause any harm to your snake, but there is no safety net if it for some reason malfunctions. If it's on a thermostat, it will completely shut off if something goes wrong.

Ball Pythons are pretty hardy snakes, which is why you get a lot of conflicting opinions on the best ways to do things. Snakes are pretty good at not showing symptoms of illness also. A new keeper may not be able to tell if something is wrong.

Safest option for an inexperienced person, house each snake individually. Definitely a great idea to regulate your heat source also. Provide a thermal gradient so the snake can pick and choose where it wants to be. 78-82 degrees on one end and 90-92 on the other. Keep the humidity at a reasonable level (50-60%) and give them places to hide.

Other than that, it's not rocket science. Good luck with your new snakes.

A lot of what is considered 'bad snakekeeping' seems to be largely based on opinion. Check out Al Coritz' channel on Youtube. I've noticed some of the things that he does, a lot of people here would bash any day of the week. But he's about a thousand times more experienced than most of those people.

Let's see. I too have spent a TON of time online reading stuff about caring for my BP. And I can always read more.

The auto mister I use is a Reptifogger. It works great, thought attaching the inlet is kind of interesting. I like it.

You do seem to need 1 more hide, as it would be stressful to make a snake choose between a preferred temp and feeling secure.

And as others have stated, please don't house them together... I know it is a small chance of cannibalism, but I don't think it's worth it if it is the slightest possibility...

Otherwise sounds good to me and :welcome:

Lookin' good!

I would get another hide for your cool side and make sure to get a thermostat for your UTH in case it malfunctions one day. You can get a Hydrofarm thermostat on amazon for $32.

Also, I wouldn't recommend keeping them together even if they are similar in size especially if you already have a second tank for one. Why take the chance of one harming the other or causing unneeded stress if you don't have to?

BPs can be picky eaters too in terms of husbandry and stress. When I bring new snakes home, I always like to think of their first meal as a test as to weather they are comfortable or not. I normally give them at least a week before offering food to let the acclimate to their new home. If something is off and one or both snakes are stressed or your temps are off, you'll know when it's time to eat.

Good luck with the new kids!

Also, if your sticking with tanks, you can cover 3/2 of the top with a damp towel to help with humidity.

I housed my two mojave's together for about 3 months while i awaited a new animalplastics cage.. they did good.. but the new snakes ive gotten whoa buddy..they WOULDN'T do well together it depends on the attitude of the snake.. :) I love this site.. 99% of people know their stuff on here! I used Herpstat's for my thermostat.. they are great and they ship same day 99% of the time.. i have two herpstat2's and one herpstat 4.. They are great little snakes..

Congratz and enjoy them!!

BTW i have two Exo-terra monsoon RS400's set up.. might be a little over kill for your set up.. but they work well for my animalplastic's T8's..

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Originally Posted by tbowman

The thing about this site, and the internet in general, is that you have to sift through all of the parroted information (whether it be true or false), and try and learn from people who actually have experience dealing with the things they are talking about.

If you run an unregulated UTH, it may not currently be too hot to cause any harm to your snake, but there is no safety net if it for some reason malfunctions. If it's on a thermostat, it will completely shut off if something goes wrong.

Ball Pythons are pretty hardy snakes, which is why you get a lot of conflicting opinions on the best ways to do things. Snakes are pretty good at not showing symptoms of illness also. A new keeper may not be able to tell if something is wrong.

Safest option for an inexperienced person, house each snake individually. Definitely a great idea to regulate your heat source also. Provide a thermal gradient so the snake can pick and choose where it wants to be. 78-82 degrees on one end and 90-92 on the other. Keep the humidity at a reasonable level (50-60%) and give them places to hide.

Other than that, it's not rocket science. Good luck with your new snakes.

A lot of what is considered 'bad snakekeeping' seems to be largely based on opinion. Check out Al Coritz' channel on Youtube. I've noticed some of the things that he does, a lot of people here would bash any day of the week. But he's about a thousand times more experienced than most of those people.

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Before I got my snake I set up my tank a month in advance to get everything dialed in, my unregulated zoo med UTH got to 158F measured on the glass inside the tank with an accurite thermometer. That would burn the hell out of a snake without doubt. With my Vivarium V100 it runs between 89-94.

So today I got to visit a local Herpetologist. He ran me threw some basics, and took me threw his setups. His first suggestion was to keep the UTH, to put a piece of slate or tile overtop of it. This thermal mass will GREATLY reduce the heat transfer threw the glass. I picked up an other hide today we well, its on the hot side of the warm side of the tank.

So, right now I have a pretty nice setup for one snake, I will be buying the "Stuff" for the second tank when I can get back into town to do so. Since I will be feeding them dead fuzzies i will pick up a small plastic container for that. Ill be feeding one at a time.

I would still get a thermostat for the UTH, even with the slate dispersing heat. If they malfunction, they REALLY malfunction. And keep in mind, hot for the snake is not hot for us. You know how the temperature can be comfortable but you can still get sunburnt? It's a lot like that for snake burns. You're not just trying to avoid flash burning - you have to be wary of the "slow cook" as well.

As far as feeding goes, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way to do it, but IF they don't eat well for you, it may be due to the stress of being moved to and from a separate container. Not all snakes are delicate flowers, and they might do just fine, but that's something to consider if they do give you trouble. It seems like you'll have the second tank up and running soon enough anyway though! :)

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Originally Posted by Smitty33

Before I got my snake I set up my tank a month in advance to get everything dialed in, my unregulated zoo med UTH got to 158F measured on the glass inside the tank with an accurite thermometer. That would burn the hell out of a snake without doubt. With my Vivarium V100 it runs between 89-94.

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Nowhere in my post did I say that an unregulated UTH will not burn a snake.

So, 2 years later I would like to make some updates.

We still have UTH, but all are on thermostats. We also use IR lamps when we need them (In the winter months).

We now have 2 BP and one RTB. SO, its a growing collection.

I am looking into CHE's and protective covers to add into the mix to more readily regulate the heat and humidity. Any suggestions / warning / guidance on this? i dont want to burn anyone, or cause undue hardship either.

thanks again,