RBI Rack Heat Tape Questions

Hey All,

I am going to be purchasing a CB-70 3 level rack from RBI. It comes standard with 4" heat tape as belly heat for the Iris tubs. Tub dimensions are 34" 17.5" x 5.3". I have seen that most racks with that size tubs come with larger heat tape, usually two strips of 4" or a 12" heat pad. Is a single strip of 4" heat tape enough? I don't have a dedicated snake room, and my room temps hover around the 65-68 degrees. I will be housing sub-adult boas and dwarf retics.

With those room temps I going to say probably not.

Why don't you ask rbi to customize your order and request additional heat tape? You could also get a extra che and put it on a dimmer and point it in the direction of the rack. Monitor the temps and adjust it accordingly. Peace.:gj:

Yeah, I emailed with Bobby about the issue. He said the tape was fine for down to about 70 deg ambient room temps. Just asked him if we could up the heat tape due to my situation. Its confusing because in the RBI heating tutorial it directly says that for larger sized racks, that the larger heat tape is needed, yet they don't use it standard on their pre-made racks. Everyone seems to love RBI and trust them, just trying to figure it all out.

Do yall think that 6" heat tape is sufficient?

RBI is now saying they can't offer any "custom racks" with bigger heat tape. All I have heard is great stuff about this company. Why am I getting stone walled? I assume each rack is made to order, and I would gladly pay the up charge for larger tape.

The heat supplied by the rack is only supposed to cover the hot spot. I have that rack and I wouldn't trust it with ambient of 70.

If you're not able to raise your room temp I'd look into something else.

The confusing part is that RBI even states that forthat size tub that a large 12" pad is necessary, yet they don't provide that in their racks. What te hell?

Who knows. I've used both, and am currently using the 4", haven't noticed a difference in snake behavior. However I have my room at 80 degrees so there's never much chance of them being too cold.

In my last email with RBI they said that they couldn't customize because they would have to change the computer aided drawing specs for the rack. Feels like I'm getting the run-around. Definitely not what I expected from my first experience with this highly touted company. I was going to order from Beeger Boxes but there is a giant mess going on with them currently. Where to go now?

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

In my last email with RBI they said that they couldn't customize because they would have to change the computer aided drawing specs for the rack. Feels like I'm getting the run-around. Definitely not what I expected from my first experience with this highly touted company. I was going to order from Beeger Boxes but there is a giant mess going on with them currently. Where to go now?

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You can't always get what you want :rolleyes:

It's a lot more complicated to custom make a rack based on it's heat than you think (unless it is back or belly). PVC rack often have recessed heat and going from a 4 inches wide recessed to a 6 or 12 inches wide recessed for one customer it just not like gonna happen with any PVC rack manufacturer that uses recessed heat, so you can always build your own or adjust your ambient temp.

You are not getting the run-around. If I understand correctly, they never told you that they would build a custom rack for you.

No matter what, I don't think it's going to matter. With room temp of 65-68 like you say, you're probably going to have temp issues if you're only running tape.

What is confounding to me is that they aren't building the racks to their OWN heat tape size recommendations. Their site clearly states that a 41 qt tub requires 12" tape, and that 30% of the floor of the tub should be covered by heat tape. With 4" heat tape, and a 41 qt tub, the tape covers barely 10% of the floor space. Why give recommendations to fall absurdly short of this in their own design? I can't up ambient temps, as I don't wish to live myself in an apartment that is routinely in the high seventies. I would dare to say that the majority of people purchasing pre fabbed racks aren't pro breeders with dedicated rooms to keep snakes, but are more likely to be hobbyists like me.

Router width can be easily changed, literally on the fly. I would settle for non-recessed heat tape. This is so frustrating.

I don't believe the CB70 is a 41qt.

I think you're wrong, I would dare to say that a majority of people using any type of rack system are indeed keeping them in rooms that are over 75 degrees. I also believe the majority of CB70 racks are going to come with 3 or 4" tape, and they work beautifully. Racks are not designed to be used in a room as cold as the one you're talking about.

If you are truly that much against changing the ambient temp, I would suggest looking into a different type of caging if you've only got the three snakes. That or fabricating something yourself that makes you happy.

As for their product not matching their recommendations, I have no explanation.

Both Boaphile and Beeger boxes make a point that they use larger heat tape than most companies. Seems ludacris to miss out on a sale of multiple racks because you won't widen your router width and install larger heat tape that you have in stock, even for an up-charge. I would hand them extra money for this, gladly.

Maybe you'll come to an agreement, but I think the obvious answer is to purchase from somebody else. Good Luck

I wanted to order from RBI because all I have ever heard is that the make great quality products and have wonderfully flexible customer service.

I think their racks are all pre-built (hence the fast turn around times). I would try Chris at C-serpents. He did a heat split for me on a rack before... I have never asked about wider heat tape, but you could at least ask and see. Otherwise, try beeger boxes (although I've heard he has shipping timeline issues).

I have only bought racks from Chris (I have 2). Mine are both 4" tape, but I have a bedroom I heat to about 77f, so ambient temps aren't an issue.

You might want to do a search for (or start) a thread about using racks in an unheated room and see if you get advice. I believe racks are intended to be used in a heated room, but I know that there have been several people to use them in unheated spaces (but they have to make modifications).

The tape is likely to provide the correct hot spot but UTH (gradient heat sources) don't heat the air. You will need to heat the ambient air temp somehow. I would suggest the simplest is just heat the room or not buy a rack and buy a bank of enclosures where a secondary heat source maybe added and the enclosure can be insulated differently. racks are thermally speaking not very efficient. They should IMO be though of as part of a system that includes the space they are placed into.

Like I said earlier I do not have a dedicated snake room, and cant heat my apartment to the high 70's. Ive had enclosed racks before in room temp areas, and with large enough heat tape it seems to do the trick just fine. Just trying to find someone that can build me a rack with the appropriate sized heat tape and ship it this side of the new year.

Have you been able to maintain correct ambient temps?

It is rare a rack in a cool room can do so. Radiant heat does not heat air, heat tape is a radiant heat source. You ambient air temp and likely the cool side temp will sit only slightly above the apartment temps. This is usually too cool, so you should be looking at a more flexable caging system if you room temp is below the 74ºF. The tape isn't the issue, 4 inch will hold a 90F hot spot, 11 inch will do so too. The cool end will still not be heated, it will be close to the temp of the room. There is a idea among some vets that cool ambient temps are a factor in thermal burns. We also know ambient air temps are critical to thermal regulation, so much so there are people out there whom just use ambient temps, with no hot spot. This cannot work in reverse.

From a thermodynamics standpoint that doesn't make sense. When heat enters the system via a large heating element it doesn't simply remain at the floor of the tub. Energy will equilibrate to cooler areas and in an insulated system using plastic tubs and pvc it will hold ambient temps great. Again, I have used temp guns and quality thermometers to support this.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

In my last email with RBI they said that they couldn't customize because they would have to change the computer aided drawing specs for the rack. Feels like I'm getting the run-around. Definitely not what I expected from my first experience with this highly touted company. I was going to order from Beeger Boxes but there is a giant mess going on with them currently. Where to go now?

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Why don't you try "C serpents "? I don't know if they customize but they have a similar rack. I believe it's the v70. Talk to Chris. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

From a thermodynamics standpoint that doesn't make sense. When heat enters the system via a large heating element it doesn't simply remain at the floor of the tub. Energy will equilibrate to cooler areas and in an insulated system using plastic tubs and pvc it will hold ambient temps great. Again, I have used temp guns and quality thermometers to support this.

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Then why are you complaining that a company wont stop their production line to build you a one off custom rack?
Either find a custom builder OR build it yourself.
Belly heat is nothing more than that, a warmer spot than the flood area around it.
Sometimes experience gets better results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

From a thermodynamics standpoint that doesn't make sense. When heat enters the system via a large heating element it doesn't simply remain at the floor of the tub. Energy will equilibrate to cooler areas and in an insulated system using plastic tubs and pvc it will hold ambient temps great. Again, I have used temp guns and quality thermometers to support this.

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It is a radiant heat source. Not a convection. heat enters heats what ever object it points at and that it turn heats the air associated with it. A plastic tub has no mass or density to hold and carry that heat so there is a massive amount of heat loss. The rack have very poor insulation so it too losses heat faster than it can be added with such an inefficient heat source. It is like trying to heat a swimming pool with an aquarium heater. It looses heat faster than it can be added. UTHs do not effect air temps to any significant degree. One or two maybe possibly 3-5 if you add heavy stones and such but generally they don't make a significant difference to air. this is why radiant heat sources are used in rinks they heat the people but don't increase the temperature of the air in a significant way.

Temp guns cannot measure air. My rack runs in a room temp of 68ºF I have 11w flexwatt and hold a stable 90ºf in the tub. the base air temp is only 70ºF, I add 2ºF to the air. that is in a 1/2 inch PVCx fully enclosed rack. Anyone with an enclosure in a cool room and just a UTH and nothing else will say the same thing the air is too cold.

Production line? Come on. This is not Ford motor company churning out racks. Most of these companies maintain a small staff and build orders as they come through. I would gladly build my own rack, like I have in the past, but I don't have time. Im going to order from Beeger Boxes and wait for the shipping.

Also, have you never see a radiator heating element in an older apartment building? As the coils heat up its not transferring heat energy to you via the floor or any physical object. Its heating the AIR. Just like a heat pad heating up a small insulated tub. With the correct size heating element you can maintain ambient temps just fine. Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Production line? Come on. This is not Ford motor company churning out racks. Most of these companies maintain a small staff and build orders as they come through. I would gladly build my own rack, like I have in the past, but I don't have time. Im going to order from Beeger Boxes and wait for the shipping.

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Actually those of us that produce products for public sale have many things set in place for production.
I wouldn't change my holster design for anyone, Why? because that's the way I do things.
Its not all about you, why change what works for the company?

That's fine. The main issue I have is that RBI details in their heating information section that 1/4 to 1/3 of the floor space must be covered by a heating element. If you calculate the area of the 41 qt tub floor space and the area that 4" heat tape would cover it works out to around 11% coverage. As I said previously, why recommend one thing, and then refuse to sell a product that comes close to the appropriate dimensions?

I find it hard to believe thay I'm being selfish or narcissistic by wanting a product created to the standards that the company THEMSELVES set.

A radiator and radiant heat are not the same. one is a scientific term the other is type of heater that actually uses convection heating.

Again the same point remains UTH type heaters don't heat air well. If they did they would dramatically change the relative humidity and they don't. Racks primary rely on the room temp for the background temp. There is little provision to add a secondary heater in a off the shelf unit it takes a custom designed and build rack to add something like a tube heater.