Reptile Personalities

So I did a search and didn't see much about reptile personalities other than random anecdotal occurrences.

Many people think reptiles are not able to have personality. So many other species do have individual personalities, but what about your snakes?

I understand some snake species are more docile, forgiving and seemingly social while others are just plain aggressive and recluse.

My 2 month old ball python female seems to honestly want to be held by me. For instance last night she was going back-and-forth in the front of her terrarium seemingly wanting out. So I got her out and all she wanted to do was wrap herself around me, put her head down on my hand and go to sleep. I understand that as a human mammal I produce heat, which she likes. So probably it's more of a "I know what I want and how to get it (specific warmth), but I'm wondering if other's have examples of where they thought personality was showing as affection of some kind rather than instinctual need-based seeming affection?

I think they have their own personalities, but they definitely don't have the emotional capability that a mammal does. I think a lot of it has to do with their metabolisms as well; my garters which have a much faster metabolism than a BP are much more curious and sociable. I think the garters at least have a curiosity towards me, even if it's not quite what I'd call affection.

I have a turtle that acts about like a cat though. I'll walk in and find her on her hind legs watching the door to see when I'm coming back. She'll also follow me around and beg for neckrubs. So as far as reptiles in general having personalities and wanting us for something other than an instinctual need for heat I think some definitely have that capability.

My ball python seems to really enjoy chin scratches.


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For sure they know who feeds, cleans up after, and takes care of them. Mine reacts differently to me than she does to any other person. I would consider it a sort of affection if mine tries to leave someone else holding her to come to me :D

They are smarter than what most people give them credit for. Before going on a 5 week vacation, I dropped my snakes off at a buddies house. When i went to get them back, my buddy went to grab my normally docile spider bp and she began to hiss and strike at him. He told me that she had been doing this since she got there. I got her home and she was completely fine. Every day since then she has been fine. It is evident that they are able to recognize people (most likely by scent) and can have a deeper "trust" with them. And they certainly have different personalities. I have a fat lazy one, a shy one, an aggressive one, a curious one, and the calm friendly one. All have distinct personalities and act different than each other.

Most reptile intelligence tests were done in the 60's and 70's using laboratory conditions they used to test rats and mice. What no one thought about is that labs are cold as heck and the animals just shut down and appeared to be dumb. They are doing new studies taking this temperature into account and are finding that reptiles may be ALOT smarter than we originally thought.

They obviously have personalities because otherwise they would all act the same. Does any reptile LIKE being held, I'm not sure. I doubt it. I think most holding comes along with feeding, cage cleaning and stuff like that. I feed my snakes in a separate container so usually when I pick them up they are learning that food is coming most likely so there is less tail rattling and being goofy.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/sc...upid.html?_r=0

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Originally Posted by Yamitaifu

They are smarter than what most people give them credit for. Before going on a 5 week vacation, I dropped my snakes off at a buddies house. When i went to get them back, my buddy went to grab my normally docile spider bp and she began to hiss and strike at him. He told me that she had been doing this since she got there. I got her home and she was completely fine. Every day since then she has been fine. It is evident that they are able to recognize people (most likely by scent) and can have a deeper "trust" with them. And they certainly have different personalities. I have a fat lazy one, a shy one, an aggressive one, a curious one, and the calm friendly one. All have distinct personalities and act different than each other.

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No. They are about as dumb as most people give them credit for.

You described an incident regarding stress with unfamiliar surroundings and scents. Nothing less, nothing more.

Studies have found snakes have a capacity to learn. Individuals will also act differently than one another, and generalizations of species (african rocks and bloods supposedly being aggressive or all balls being docile, for example) have been shown to be false on several occasions. I'm of the opinion reptiles in general are just a few steps short of birds. (do note that birds, as well as other reptiles, do not have the same brain structures of mammals, however, they're capable of some of the same thought processes, tasks and emotions)
Temperature also plays a very important part in their mental capabilities as well; warmth causing quicker learning.

However, one thing does not change, and that's just how simple a snake 'wants' to live its life. All their mental capabilities are geared towards doing just that. They can remember things for months, if not potentially years, however, that specific thing they're remembering is where that nice cozy den is and how to get there, or what trail those delicious rats are cruising along every night so they can ambush them.
I also think the notion that snakes go towards people or wrap around them because people are warm is false. Not because I believe they're showing affection towards people, but simply because they don't always like being warm in the first place, and they can overheat. The best sort of mental stimulation, if any, that you could give to a snake is probably an occasional chance to explore, as it seems as if their minds are geared specifically towards doing that according to the way studies make it look. New smells, different water holes, new dark places, even tracking a scent trail of a dead mouse across the living room. (there's a video out there on the youtubes of one person who did just that)
It's also worth noting that snakes' closest relatives, phylogenetically speaking, are iguanids, agamids, and monitors, all of which are some of the smartest known reptiles there are.

A snake will never compare to a dog or even a cat with how much they want to spend time with a person, but I wouldn't put individual recognition beyond them, and it's possible for them to recognize and trust a specific individual human more than any other human. That is, of course, granted that snake doesn't already hate all humans in the first place.


Overall though, it's still a very muddy topic with the science still in its infancy. The best way to find out with what we have now is to collect a bunch of different snakes yourself, and to observe and interact with them often by yourself, therefor coming up with your own conclusion.

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

Studies have found snakes have a capacity to learn. Individuals will also act differently than one another, and generalizations of species (african rocks and bloods supposedly being aggressive or all balls being docile, for example) have been shown to be false on several occasions. I'm of the opinion reptiles in general are just a few steps short of birds. (do note that birds, as well as other reptiles, do not have the same brain structures of mammals, however, they're capable of some of the same thought processes, tasks and emotions)
Temperature also plays a very important part in their mental capabilities as well; warmth causing quicker learning.

However, one thing does not change, and that's just how simple a snake 'wants' to live its life. All their mental capabilities are geared towards doing just that. They can remember things for months, if not potentially years, however, that specific thing they're remembering is where that nice cozy den is and how to get there, or what trail those delicious rats are cruising along every night so they can ambush them.
I also think the notion that snakes go towards people or wrap around them because people are warm is false. Not because I believe they're showing affection towards people, but simply because they don't always like being warm in the first place, and they can overheat. The best sort of mental stimulation, if any, that you could give to a snake is probably an occasional chance to explore, as it seems as if their minds are geared specifically towards doing that according to the way studies make it look. New smells, different water holes, new dark places, even tracking a scent trail of a dead mouse across the living room. (there's a video out there on the youtubes of one person who did just that)
It's also worth noting that snakes' closest relatives, phylogenetically speaking, are iguanids, agamids, and monitors, all of which are some of the smartest known reptiles there are.

A snake will never compare to a dog or even a cat with how much they want to spend time with a person, but I wouldn't put individual recognition beyond them, and it's possible for them to recognize and trust a specific individual human more than any other human. That is, of course, granted that snake doesn't already hate all humans in the first place.


Overall though, it's still a very muddy topic with the science still in its infancy. The best way to find out with what we have now is to collect a bunch of different snakes yourself, and to observe and interact with them often by yourself, therefor coming up with your own conclusion.

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What a wonderful comment! I can see how birds and reptiles could be compared. Although birds are highly intelligent, a few reptiles out there are pretty intelligent too. Iguanas, for example.

I really enjoy how much a snake or any reptile for that matter wants to live. Considering they lead such a boring life(to me anyway) they want to keep going for as long as possible! Maybe that determination is what helps them live such long lives compared to most mammals.

I completely agree on the fact that they like exploring! My marshall is the best periscoper! He constantly is looking around, then coming back to me for a while, and then he looks around some more:) even my frogs will try desperately to escape, I've tried taking them out for 5 minutes and they are completely content. Most of the time though I think the frogs are just hungry.... They really are dumb lol.


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Originally Posted by Skiploder

No. They are about as dumb as most people give them credit for.

You described an incident regarding stress with unfamiliar surroundings and scents. Nothing less, nothing more.

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I've seen you discuss this topic before and i must say i feel your negativity is unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by the I-Many

I've seen you discuss this topic before and i must say i feel your negativity is unnecessary.

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There's an ignore function....feel free to use it. My feelings won't be hurt.

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Originally Posted by the I-Many

I've seen you discuss this topic before and i must say i feel your negativity is unnecessary.

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Idk man he disagrees with the idea and gave his opinion. That's really all these posts about Herp feelings are, opinion. There is one group who thinks they are unfeeling eating machines and another that anthropomorphizes their pets and pretends that their reptile enjoys being held. No one has any facts when it comes to things like this. Some would argue that dogs are just reacting on pack instinct and positive or negative reinforcement and don't really have feelings. Its just a bunch of people who think what they think. Oh well.

I love my reptiles even though they don't love me back, I don't need them to, I've done it with girlfriends why not with animals.

I dunno. Different individuals show different behaviors.

Having kept birds, I don't compare snakes to birds; they are in two different worlds of intelligence and capabilities. Spectrum, totally. Just not terribly close. Even lizards seem to have a different style of cognition than BPs. Garter snakes do for sure. For being ball pythons, ball pythons are brilliant. There's stuff they're great at, there's stuff they're terrible at. Though, I have to admit, I'm curious how well they, and other snakes, would do at cognitive tests that really cater to them.

I don't really handle other most of them other than for maintenance or taking photos. Even with that little interaction, they don't all react to handling the same. Some show less stress, some show more interest. With several of the babies, I've seen a set "personality" from day one . . . They're more or less stressed by me from the get-go. Then I have an adult female albino BP who shows the most interest and the least amount of obvious stress when I take her out. Because the baseline of their behavior seems genetic, I've honestly toyed around with the idea of breeding for it.

The Angolans seem the most sensitive to whether or not I'm handling them enough to keep them habituated to it. My JPC has distinct moods, for lack of a better way to word that, and is very readable. She's between the Angolans and the BPs as far as handling frequently to keep her used to it goes. (Although I do take her out just for the heck of it more often, because she's more interesting to have out, and seemed to benefit from the exercise.)

So . . . I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Jhill001

Idk man he disagrees with the idea and gave his opinion. That's really all these posts about Herp feelings are, opinion. There is one group who thinks they are unfeeling eating machines and another that anthropomorphizes their pets and pretends that their reptile enjoys being held. No one has any facts when it comes to things like this. Some would argue that dogs are just reacting on pack instinct and positive or negative reinforcement and don't really have feelings. Its just a bunch of people who think what they think. Oh well.

I love my reptiles even though they don't love me back, I don't need them to, I've done it with girlfriends why not with animals.

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I don't think they're eating machines...I mean they poop and bump ball python uglies as well. Let's give credit where credit is due.

In think some reptiles have more definitive personalities and signs of real intelligence. Varanids and heloderms for example.

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Originally Posted by Jhill001

Idk man he disagrees with the idea and gave his opinion. That's really all these posts about Herp feelings are, opinion. There is one group who thinks they are unfeeling eating machines and another that anthropomorphizes their pets and pretends that their reptile enjoys being held. No one has any facts when it comes to things like this. Some would argue that dogs are just reacting on pack instinct and positive or negative reinforcement and don't really have feelings. Its just a bunch of people who think what they think. Oh well.

I love my reptiles even though they don't love me back, I don't need them to, I've done it with girlfriends why not with animals.

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Lol I totally anthropomorphize! Without even realizing it too. I know in my head that my reptiles probably don't love me and feel the way I do, but when my frogs try to bite my fingers off, I still go "aw! Love bites!" When really they are trying to ingest me as my finger looks like a big juicy worm.


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Originally Posted by gameonpython

What a wonderful comment! I can see how birds and reptiles could be compared. Although birds are highly intelligent, a few reptiles out there are pretty intelligent too. Iguanas, for example.

I really enjoy how much a snake or any reptile for that matter wants to live. Considering they lead such a boring life(to me anyway) they want to keep going for as long as possible! Maybe that determination is what helps them live such long lives compared to most mammals.

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That's just animal genes doing what they're going to do - survive as long as possible and reproduce. That's the basic organism in a nutshell. As for longevity, I believe a reptile's slower metabolism is the result for that.

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

I completely agree on the fact that they like exploring! My marshall is the best periscoper! He constantly is looking around, then coming back to me for a while, and then he looks around some more:) even my frogs will try desperately to escape, I've tried taking them out for 5 minutes and they are completely content. Most of the time though I think the frogs are just hungry.... They really are dumb lol.

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I think the notion that they even like it may or may not be correct, and it can even be stressful for them. However, like it or not, the mental and physical stimulation and exercise may have benefits the way I see it. For one, although a ball python is happy to spend its entire time in a dark hole, they don't always have that opportunity in the wild, and they are forced to get out more often. It's like the difference between a human sitting on the couch all day or going out to get some exercise. While many of us would much rather sit on the couch all day and eat candy, that's not the healthiest thing to do. A snake may hate being out or may tolerate it just well, but it gets them active and makes their mental gears turn, and that may just be one of many things they need to lead a healthier life. Like it or not, that's what they're built to do and what their genes are programmed for.


Also, as for saying reptiles are 'dumb,' I think that statement is a scientifically wrong one in and of itself. Describing them as dumb infers they are of lower or substandard function or mental capabilities. However, they are doing exactly what their genetic code calls for, and while they may not be as clever or witty as many a mammal or bird, they certainly don't need to be, because that's not how they evolved to function in the first place. Ball python genes, for one, never called for the animal to be a mathematical prodigy and great inventor. If they are never supposed to be one way, why hold them up to those standards or use such terms?

In the mean time, scientists and so forth have long assumed reptiles to be less intelligent in comparison to other vertebrates mainly over one flaw - the experiments and their set-ups have been largely incorrect, and the objectives they gave the animals have been contradictory to their natural behavior. While mice have many reasons to navigate a maze, a lizard or snake may not. Modified and specialized tests have only recently be comprised in which they're legitimately exploring the true potential of the squamate's brain and the brains of the rest of the cold-blooded archosaurians. And while our perception their intelligence continues to fluctuate, one thing will certainly remain the same - their instincts and their natural life style. Tests are finally being modified to cope with these needs and behaviors that differ from those of the previously tested vertebrate subjects.

Links:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/sc...upid.html?_r=0
http://www.livescience.com/48095-bea...ion-video.html
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/releases/bcs/snake.htm

On another note, and more on topic with the original post, there's also some (anecdotal) evidence that a snake's personality - docile and curious, or timid and flighty - can be genetic as well. This makes me wonder if a so called "domestic" or tame form of a species can be developed. This is certainly being tried with snakes like blood pythons and reticulated pythons because these species could really put a hurting on someone. However, the opposite is true with snakes like the ball python, who's small size and harmless bite is laughable at best, therefor nobody is concerned with breeding them for personality. Therefor, the timid and shy nature of most individuals covers up the potential for the confident and curious nature of the snake to present itself, and many keepers miss the opportunity to witness animals with this wonderful personality.

I'm not sure you can domesticate millions of years of evolution in snakes. I mean sure, they "learn" that this giant who smells like X wont hurt me and yes the mental stimulation from coming outside the cage might "excite" them but i imagine its more about, "i know there is no food in this cage, but there might be food outside in this other place, lets check around". While i do agree that reptiles do have a form of intelligence, you sure aren't going to get your ball python to chase a ball and bring it back to you or wake you up if there is a fire in your house to save your life. They don't "love" you but i would say they get used to us and tolerate us and i swear my big BCI girl does love to come outside and roam around but I'm probably just attaching an emotion to something that could be scientifically explained. Regardless though, i will still say my snakes like me. And i swear my bearded dragon loves me....or at least love me for the hornworms i give her :P

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I'm not sure you can domesticate millions of years of evolution in snakes. I mean sure, they "learn" that this giant who smells like X wont hurt me and yes the mental stimulation from coming outside the cage might "excite" them but i imagine its more about, "i know there is no food in this cage, but there might be food outside in this other place, lets check around". While i do agree that reptiles do have a form of intelligence, you sure aren't going to get your ball python to chase a ball and bring it back to you or wake you up if there is a fire in your house to save your life.

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Domestication has no solid definition. Mink are considered domesticated, and they're evil as hell. It took 50 years to domesticate silver foxes to a neonatal ("dog-like") form, and approx. 30 years for a strictly carnivorous lizard to become herbivorous. On the other hand, koi (Cyprinus carpio haematopterus) are considered a completely separate, domesticated subspecies from the common carp, (Cyprinus carpio carpio) and the only difference is that koi have a more ornamental appearance. Sound familiar?
Animal genetics are ever changing; ever mutating, and happen at a faster rate than previously thought. Acting like a playful dog or taking millions of years to process is not a requirement of domestication, but serving any human purpose and evolving a distinct form in an artificial environment is. Many of our reptiles are undergoing the same process ornamental fish went through several decades ago - and all for the same reason, serving as a strictly ornamental animal. Give it another few decades or so, especially once something such as the practice of importing dies down, and let the captive populations become genetically isolated from the wild populations. It'd be interesting to see the morphological - and behavioral - differences develop. I know genetic isolation of captive populations of the gargoyle gecko (Rhacodactylus auriculatus) and the crested gecko (Correlophus ciliatus) are literally changing in their shape, especially of the former, as their crests and horns begin to change in shape and size.

While they certainly won't be chasing toy balls or seeking affection, I reckon, through artificial selection, that their morphology will continue changing, as well as their disposition should a genetic tendency for tameness be selected as well.

On another note, who knows what a snake thinks? I'm certain they completely lack any internal dialogue. However, their bodies and their brains seem to be well built for exploring and memorizing locations and it probably wouldn't hurt to get their mental gears turning, and get some calories burning as they map out their nearby surroundings, so long as supervision is given so that they don't wedge themselves inside a dresser or the couch. :P I've noticed at least two of mine who seemed genuinely curious over otherwise useless objects, such as wires, for whatever unknown reason, constantly smelling them with their tongue and inspecting every side of them.

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Originally Posted by Alicia

For being ball pythons, ball pythons are brilliant. There's stuff they're great at, there's stuff they're terrible at. Though, I have to admit, I'm curious how well they, and other snakes, would do at cognitive tests that really cater to them.

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Completely agree.
Through exploration and curiosity, my ball python went through a 'maze' to climb down from his enclosure sitting on a desk, around the walls of the living room, through a hole in the wall where the radiator pipe goes into the bedroom, and then to the other end of the bedroom into the closet because that is consistently the quietest, darkest place in my apartment.

And now that he's learned this route he can travel it surprisingly fast, even if I move objects around to block his path at various points. And when I blocked the hole in the wall, he found another way to get there. Brilliant :bow:

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

Domestication has no solid definition.

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Michael Pollan's book The Botany Of Desire "demonstrates how people and domesticated plants have formed a...reciprocal relationship. He masterfully links four fundamental human desires—sweetness, beauty, intoxication, and control—with the plants that satisfy them: the apple, the tulip, marijuana, and the potato...Pollan illustrates how the plants have evolved to satisfy humankind’s most basic yearnings.
And just as we’ve benefited from these plants, we have also done well by them. So who is really domesticating whom?"

I think this hypothesis can also apply to ball pythons: seen from their perspective, they survived a long time in Africa. But now as their natural habitat is shrinking they have managed to come up with a new survival strategy by their very nature of being docile, and by their ability to express morphs in ways that are visually pleasing to us. So while their numbers are shrinking in their native habitat, their popularity is increasing in North America and Britain.
And when you look at how much time and effort is invested in keeping them warm and fed, and at the prices some of the morphs get you really have to wonder: who is domesticating whom?

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

There's an ignore function....feel free to use it. My feelings won't be hurt.

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I bet you're a blast at parties.