Double Het Pied, Albino?

I bought this snake as a double het pied albino. I know that het albino is hard to tell but is it het pied? And does anyone know how to tell of a het albino? Any markings for het albino?
Thanks.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...c80c847a10.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...8e31929038.jpg


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The line on the sides almost go to her head but they don't.


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Originally Posted by Alan664

The line on the sides almost go to her head but they don't.


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Not really a authority on morphs but it looks like he has het pied markers. However I thought the markers were appreciated at the lower third including the tail. What you can do is ask the person you brought him from to show you pics of the parents. The other thing is to breed him and see if he proves out. Also, does he have pics of the hatched out clutch. If he wants to be truthful he should have documentation to support his claims. The albino identifying marks I am not sure if there are any. Documentation and pics go a long way to me. Good luck. Stay in peace and not pieces. Don't forget to donate to USARK. :gj:

I would say if you bought him from a trustworthy and reputable breeder that he is what he was advertised as. The markers on him for pied are very good. Supposedly het Albino's have more white/lighter in color than your average bp. However no "het marker" is 100% so purchase from a reliable source is your best bet.

However for reference I will toss in a picture of my 100% dh albino pied boy purchased this year. He is from a pied het albino x Albino breeding and from a very good local breeder.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4okzrxue.jpg


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6bv5xuk9.jpg

Those are strong het pied markers, and I have no doubt it will prove out as a het pied.

Now I will add this, the best guarantee in the world is to buy from a reputable breeder when it comes to hets.

I thought heterozygous meant the genotype existed but the phenotype didn't show?

So there are markers to predict het traits?

Can some one explain to me the pied het marker then? I have a normal poss het pied, and it'd be cool to know more than that about her.

Thanks to Asherah for the albino identifying criteria. I was leaning towards the lighter color / more white but honestly was not sure. Peace.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

I thought heterozygous meant the genotype existed but the phenotype didn't show?

So there are markers to predict het traits?

Can some one explain to me the pied het marker then? I have a normal poss het pied, and it'd be cool to know more than that about her.

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In a nutshell, a normal bp that is het for pied will present with dark black railroad track markings on the ventrolateral aspects of the lower third body to the tail. They usually have a bit more white surrounding the blotched brown areas laterally. Amount of white can vary from encircling to a blushed appearance. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

I thought heterozygous meant the genotype existed but the phenotype didn't show?

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That is correct for truly recessive traits.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

So there are markers to predict het traits?

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Therein lies the catch. :cool: Some of the recessive genes in this hobby likely aren't truly recessive at all (by the letter of the definition), otherwise they wouldn't show the markers that we're referring to. Aren't genetics fun?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

That is correct for truly recessive traits.

Therein lies the catch. :cool: Some of the recessive genes in this hobby likely aren't truly recessive at all (by the letter of the definition), otherwise they wouldn't show the markers that we're referring to. Aren't genetics fun?

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So I'm guessing that albinism and piebaldism aren't true recessive genes in balls?

I might have to post some pictures later. Here is to hoping my normal lady is a het for pied. That would help me tremendously, because as of now she's just a pet. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Thanks to Asherah for the albino identifying criteria. I was leaning towards the lighter color / more white but honestly was not sure. Peace.:gj:

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I have only heard this, I wouldn't say it is a clear indicator, nor would I bet on every light normal to possibly be het Albino - but it is worthwhile to note that my guy is a good deal lighter and has more white around his alien heads than what I would normally expect to see. It is very subtle but also quite noticeable in person especially when paired next to a non het normal.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

So I'm guessing that albinism and piebaldism aren't true recessive genes in balls?

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Not in the sense that blue eyes and red hair are recessive genes in humans. Could you imagine "red head het markers"? :rolleye2:

In this hobby's definition, though, albino and piebald are still considered recessive.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

I have only heard this, I wouldn't say it is a clear indicator, nor would I bet on every light normal to possibly be het Albino - but it is worthwhile to note that my guy is a good deal lighter and has more white around his alien heads than what I would normally expect to see. It is very subtle but also quite noticeable in person especially when paired next to a non het normal.

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Thanks for the clarification either way. I know that there are variations and subtleties and the lighter color /white could indicate different genes. Lucy, hypo, ivory etc; Peace. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Thanks for the clarification either way. I know that there are variations and subtleties and the lighter color /white could indicate different genes. Lucy, hypo, ivory etc; Peace. :gj:

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Were I given a group of possible het albino's and told I could only pick one, I would go with the lightest of the bunch.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

I thought heterozygous meant the genotype existed but the phenotype didn't show?

So there are markers to predict het traits?

Can some one explain to me the pied het marker then? I have a normal poss het pied, and it'd be cool to know more than that about her.

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True but markers are not a 100% guarantee, some het pieds show little to no markers some are very obvious like in this case, when you produce enough het pieds you get pretty good at identifying them and even pickout het pied from normal in a clutch of possible hets.

That being said I would never encourage someone to buy an animal on markers alone I have seen normal with similar markers as well.

Well I know you know Deb! Thanks again. I supplement mine with pics and documentation. Peace.:gj:

Despite what some people would like to have others think.
Piebald and Albinos are both recessive traits. The "markers" are not an indicator of carrying the trait. No one has shown any markers for Albino and the ones for pied can be non existant on true het pieds and can show on proven normals.
Markers are NOT 100%.
Even if markers where 100% positive for a both mentioned morphs, it would not make them non recessive. Train tracks are not the phenotype of a Piebald, period.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Even if markers where 100% positive for a both mentioned morphs, it would not make them non recessive. Train tracks are not the phenotype of a Piebald, period.

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So what is the phenotype of a Het Ivory or a Het BEL? Do genetics always have to fit in a nice little box?

Also, I get what you're going for, but not a single person in this thread has said that markers are 100%.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Despite what some people would like to have others think.
Piebald and Albinos are both recessive traits. The "markers" are not an indicator of carrying the trait. No one has shown any markers for Albino and the ones for pied can be non existant on true het pieds and can show on proven normals.
Markers are NOT 100%.
Even if markers where 100% positive for a both mentioned morphs, it would not make them non recessive. Train tracks are not the phenotype of a Piebald, period.

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I was describing the markers on a HET pied as train tracks. Actually I should have said train tracks w/o the crossbar. Also described the location as ventrolateral, lower third of body towards the tail and inclusive of the tail. Peace.:gj:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...gami/Basil.jpg
This is my lady...tell me she looks promising. :/
I'm guessing not.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...gami/Basil.jpg
This is my lady...tell me she looks promising. :/
I'm guessing not.

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The standard stance here is if you bought it as a normal its a normal until proven otherwise.
Het Pied markers tend to really clean up the belly, bright white with distinct tracks and wonk out the tail pattern.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...pscubkq1f6.jpg
Clear Belly & tracks

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfcavwihl.jpg
Wonky tail Pattern

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...psesc9tna6.jpg
Wonky tail pattern

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps875bjwfu.png 100% het pied comparison with a normal.

She was given to me as a normal, possible het pied.

I didn't even want a normal initially. But she was free and I sort of impulsively said yes (ball pythons are like a drug). I was with a friend who sort of plopped her in my lap and was like, "here, take this snake". I was just like..."sure".

She's a pretty lady, though! Good eater and getting big. She's also got very big, bold black markings that sort of set her apart a little. :D

I'll cross my fingers for you and hope she proves out if you decide to breed her :)

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Originally Posted by Asherah

I'll cross my fingers for you and hope she proves out if you decide to breed her :)

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Hey, thanks for the clarification and pictorial comparison on the het pieds! Tracks and the white blushing along with the lighter color is very apparent there. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Hey, thanks for the clarification and pictorial comparison on the het pieds! Tracks and the white blushing along with the lighter color is very apparent there. :gj:

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Welcome! Seems like some nice comparisons would be beneficial to folks starting out. You can hear "train tracks" described all day, but until you really see it you have no idea what you're really looking for. This goes for a lot of morphs.